UKH

Has anybody used these as trad quickdraws? How do they handle? I've been thinking of changing my top crabs to these leaving bigger bottom crab for clipping..

In reply to Paul Crusher R:

Have you handled them? They are really tiny.

I bought a couple as novelty items, but I wouldn't want to use them on a regular basis unless I needed to save weight on a really huge rack for some reason.

In reply to Paul Crusher R:
I think I was considering them too, but decided to go for DMM Phantoms. Even with my 'medium-at-best' sized hands I don't find them [phantoms] particularly easy to clip (I clip with my thumb though, so maybe it will be different if I used another clipping technique).
Might be worth just getting a single 19g QD and trying it out for a while to see how you find it.

Edit: just read you want to only use the 19g for the gear end. In that case that's a clever idea! If I did that I'd save 70g over just having 10 normal phantom QDs in that case, not a heck of a lot. (can probably get a 100-200g saving more easily from a new harness or helmet)

In reply to Paul Crusher R:

I got couple of them, but never used them as load bearing carabiners. I find them okay to be used with something like Petzl Spatha knife. 19g is not that much heavier than an accessory carabiner, but it's a lot handier than an accessory carabiner.

They are tiny, way much tinier than DMM Phantoms (the difference is more significant compared to Phantoms vs Spectres). They might be okay to use on gear end, though.

In reply to Paul Crusher R:
Cheers, yeah I've seen them, the ratings sound good so no probs with using them, just take some getting used to them being a different size. Not uncommonly I may take 14 draws, 6 cams crabbed up and 2 with tat etc... 36 crabs in total, so I'd be saving 25gs on my normal crabs... 900g on my rack.. thats some saving off a waist.

In reply to Paul Crusher R:

I actually like how Camp Photon handles (they are larger than Spectres and weigh only 29g), but I have only one and didn't use as much. Ocun Hawk are quite nice, but heavier than DMM Phantoms (both similar size). However, most of my carabiners are now DMM Spectres as I like the weight and size ratio the most.

As someone else mentioned, 200g can be easier saved by using a Tangerine (aka Petzl Sirocco) helmet and few other things. You can save 150g by using Sirocco instead of Petzl Elios which would allow you to have 30 Spectres instead of 30 Phantoms. I believe that it would also be cheaper than getting 30 Phantoms!

In reply to Paul Crusher R:

Yes, I have 8 19G quickdraws and tend to use them when being lazy and trying to carry as little as possible. They are small, but for much trad when you're not clipping in extremis they are fine. See comments in the gear section of this http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/stetinds-sydpilaren-south-p... after I had used them on the longest route I've climbed

In reply to Paul Crusher R:

I you're really that worried about rack weight, and your current normal krabs weigh 44 grammes, then you've got plenty of scope to go for lighter but more normal sized krabs that still have decent handling.

Camp Photons for example are huge but only 29 grammes; Spectres 33g, superb DMM build quality & cheap; Phantoms 28g and (unlike the 19G) not *ridiculously* small. I would go for any of these over the 19G and save a bit of extra weight somewhere else.

Are you familiar with the magnificently obsessive-compulsive weighmyrack.com?

http://www.weighmyrack.com/carabiner