UKH

Is there any need to get ice screws for low-grade winter climbing in UK? I've been reading an alpine skills book which says they're useful for crevasse rescue, but not sure there are many glaciers around these parts.

In reply to humptydumpty:

They're fairly mandatory on ice routes of III and above, and while you can usually get by without on easy snow gullies and mixed routes, they can be very useful on these also. Depends on the route of course.

In reply to Michael Gordon:

Sounds worth picking up a couple - thanks.

In reply to humptydumpty:


if you don't want to splash the cash my advice would be buy a few mid length second hand screws of a good manufacturer rather than new crap ones.

I bought some cheap ones and after trying to place one while a bit scared I bought some good ones and have never used the others. I only take one of the crap ones with me when I go out as a screw to place and retreat from.

In reply to humptydumpty:

Only once have I ever used more than a couple. Just make sure you get some with a winder like the grivel helix or BD turbos

In reply to gethin_allen:

So what do you define as a 'crap' ice screw?

In reply to dek:

I had some from Camp and salewa, they were heavy overall small bore, and without a good winding handle. I think they were camp vertige. I bought grivel 360s and they are so much easier to place.

In reply to humptydumpty:

For Wales and the lakes you want much shorter screws as the ice is rarely as fat as Scotland. Where are you thinking of climbing mostly?

In reply to CurlyStevo:


Interesting. Coming from London, so likely North Wales or around Fort William. How about a long one and a short one?

In reply to gethin_allen:

Windy handle makes all the difference? So BD Express would be good, but turbos crap?

I'm not sure about 2nd hand, as I don't think I know enough not to get ripped off. Can there be much wrong with an old ice screw, or do you just give them a sharpen and get screwing?

In reply to humptydumpty:

BD turbo screws are alright, the hangers are long enough to wind the screw in and the threads start well.

The ease of getting the screw started is the biggest thing.

In reply to humptydumpty:

2 new decent screws = £100 (roughly). I would suggest that you will seldom find ice good enough to trust them in while winter climbing in scotland. Note I say seldom, unless of course you go to ice venues, but for your average buttress or gully route unlikely to require. For your money, you might be better buying a few bulldogs, pegs, maybe a screamer, and spinner leashes, all for roughly the same price. All depends on what type of stuff you fancy doing though.....

Andy

In reply to andyinglis:
I really like icey routes and I've found lots of routes north of the border which take good ice screws when there is no rock gear. Admitedly not many in the northern corries (maybe only alladins mirror direct).

In reply to humptydumpty:
I'd probably go for either a 10cm and 13 cm or 13cm and 16cm if I was you. It's quite rare in N Wales even on the ice routes to get many screws longer than 13 cm in, although 10cm stubbies are a little specialist in N Wales I'd much rather have a rack of those than a rack of 16 cms screws!

In reply to humptydumpty:
Also get second hand screws to start with as I can pretty much guarentee you are going to trash them in your first couple of seasons, yes they can be resharpened but once you take off the outer layter of metal they rust more easily.

In reply to andyinglis:

Hi andy,

"2 new decent screws = £100 (roughly)"

...must be cheap where you are.....

In Glasgow.....

ahem...

ANdy

In reply to humptydumpty:

The crag station (not based at Awesome walls stockport) were selling this type of screw by Austrialpin http://www.alpinsport-basis.de/AustriAlpin-Siko-FX-Eisschraube_1
Don't know if they are still doing them and a goggle search doesn't show good UK distribution.
They work fine and are fairly similar to the Grivel Helix. Mixing the 2 doesn't make for great racking - but that's generally the case mixing brands and models. I think they make a reasonable alterative if you need to get a rack kick started.
I agree that it's certainly possible to find low grade climbs that will take screws e.g. Idwal Stream at grade II/III, it can be more a case of whether you think you need them - but it gets to be a long fall if you cock it up and I recall areas where alternative pro would be hard to come by.

In reply to humptydumpty:
The thread title is a lot more interesting than your actual question!

It depends what routes you want to do. If you're going to do ice routes, you will need screws. Ice routes kick off at grade III generally. Having said that, you will sometimes find ice steps on IIs. Whether you need screws to protect them depends on how confident you are and what other gear options there might be.

In reply to humptydumpty:

http://www.theoutdoorshop.com/prodpage.asp?type=sub&sub=9007&page=2...

Based on above one 13cm with a windy handle plus a 19cm for alpine adventures..
Actually if you do classic routes on busy weekends often the stances/runners have been cleared..essentials usually are some wires/slings possibly hexes/cams dependent on rock type.

In reply to humptydumpty:

I went for ages using the hammer in, screw out Snarg type screws in Scotland. In fact I still take them as I have found they seat better in some snow ice where the expensive ones seem to rattle about in their own holes.

In reply to humptydumpty:

Having done stacks of winter climbing in Scotland over the last 30 plus years I would not be without them, even on easy routes. And contrary to the advice below, I would suggest having at least one of 20+cm long and learn how to make an Abalakov thread, for which this length is ideal. For the other(s) I would go for 15 - 16cm as these are easy to place on the lead but go in deep enough that they are reasonably secure in often dodgy Scottish ice. Shorter ones can be useful on harder routes but are obviously not so secure.