UKH

Having never yet experienced a via ferrata, I'm curious as to how the grades compare with something that I'm familiar with. What approximate grade would the climbing go at on, for example, a 5C (if you were to avoid pulling on the cable)? What extra difficulties might you encounter on a high-grade via ferrata compared to a low-grade via ferrata other than the technical difficulty/physicality? What would your average bimbly rock climber (who's happy with heights and confident in the mountains) feel happy on with no previous experience?

Possibly off to the Dolomites soon, and getting on a via ferrata or two sounds like an interesting and fun break to climbing, but I'd like to know more about them first!

In reply to tehmarks: they are great fun, in great settings and are free!! have fun.

In reply to tehmarks:
no easy comparison, all depends on the route, but the best advice is not to go for something in the mid grades at first just to get an idea and get used to the gear.

Having said that, my first VF was a 5c (tommaselli), but I did it in the company of an experienced group. I was determined to try and climb most of it unaided, even wore rock boots at times. Unfortunately snow on the route made this tricky, and I quickly realised that I didn't have time to prat around. I always like to climb the rock, but sometimes it's not worth bothering.

As regards seriousness, it mostly comes down to escape points. Bear in mind that you might have no choice but to finish the route, which could mean spending a couple of hours on the world's biggest lightning conductors!

In reply to tehmarks:
And a quick plug for my article

http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=86

We did some a few years back, before I started climbing, though we had hillwalking/scrambling experience. The hardest we did was 3C, which I guess would be similar in technical difficulty to something like a diff, but you do get a *lot* of exposure and they can be very long. Several hours in some cases and you'll go up a couple of thousand feet.
The walk in can also be very long, again think a couple of hours of scrambling with not inconsiderable exposure (fantastic views mind!).

IIRC the grade is split, so that the number is the difficulty, and the letter the seriousness (i.e. how difficult it is to escape/bail out). They are big, serious mountains and can take hours to get back down from the VF. No mountain rescue either!

It's fantastic though, do it, even the lower grade ones are an amazing experience.

In reply to tehmarks:

It's hard to convert the grades. Basically, 1s and 2s are easy scrambles. 3s and 4s are quite interesting but not too physically challenging. 5cs require more fitness - even pulling on the cables can get quite tiring as the terrain is often very steep. However, anyone with decent upper body fitness and a head for heights should be fine on them. As for going without the cables, they aren't really graded for that, so if there is a ladder section, the rock could be very blank. However, the 5c I have done without pulling on the cables was probably about VS at most. Having said that, the falls are potentially far worse than your average VS trad lead - you can be looking at 5m down a cable before your VF kit kicks in.

VF is quite a lot of fun and you get into some very interesting positions.

Echoing the advice here - start easy (but skip grade 1 if you know what you're doing in the hills). The VF grade won't tell you how hard the free climbing grade is on the same ground without the gear - and simply don't worry about the "ethics" in terms of rock climbing because it is a very different scene.

By the time you hit grade 2 you'll probably be on pretty serious and wild ground from a fall perspective regardless of the A-C grade. You really need to adopt an alpine frame of mind for VF in the Dolomites rather than a rock climbing frame of mind and be more concerned with moving swiftly and efficiently rather than with a trad ethic.

If you are working from the Cicerone guides take note of the timings - you have to move pretty sharpish to keep up with them and if you want to ascend and descend (ie not use a hut) in a day and use the chairlifts (most certainly you want to do this) you can't prat around trying routes without using the gear. Away from the Lake Garda routes you'll need to put in long days if you want to be up and down in a day.

Also bear in mind that other parties will move very fast and catch you up if you hang around and that between June and September thunderstorms can occur in the afternoon.

Think of VF as vertical mountain walking crossed with a bit of "sport alpinism" rather than climbing and you won't go far wrong.

Don't let anything I've said put you off it is bloody fantastic, the terrain to can move through with minimal gear is simply amazing. Never forget your helmet (or proper VF kit) and take a good head for heights.

I'd not necessarily skip the 1s either - although they are (mostly) just paths with a bit of scrambling, some are very interesting, particularly some of the original WW1 routes around Lagazoui, and you can do the tunnels in the same day. There's also one which goes around behind a massive waterfall which is pretty cool.

In reply to bz: ' between June and September thunderstorms can occur ...' I've often wondered about being caught in a thunderstorm attached to an effing great steel (and therefore conductive) cable...

It's a serious question - are there many records of fatalaties on VFs in thunderstorms? I haven't heard of any, but haven't got a good reason why not!

In reply to tehmarks:
As most people have said, the grades are quite hard to convert. I'd say that the only things you really need are the ability to function with a LOT of exposure, a bit of 'mountain judgement', and for the harder routes reasonable fitness.

I think that the VF in the Dolomites are a fantastic way of getting into some absolutely awe inspiring places/situations with relatively little skill.

I think I started on 2B, which was quite good to get my head around the exposure and used to the kit.

I'd really recommend VF Delle Scalette (3B I think) on torre toblino, and Cesare Piazzetta (5C) on Pitz Boe - Don't start at mid-day like we did for that one. Also the albergo at the top of passp pordoi is definately worth a look.

Either way have a go, if you love beautiful moutains you'll have a blast.

In reply to Monk:
>As for going without the cables, they aren't really graded for that, so if there is a ladder section, the rock could be very blank. However, the 5c I have done without pulling on the cables was probably about VS at most. Having said that, the falls are potentially far worse than your average VS trad lead - you can be looking at 5m down a cable before your VF kit kicks in.

Agreed - the times given and grades assume you're cable hauling where appropriate. Unless the terrain is very easy, I like to keep a hand on the cable at all times because if I do fall, I'll slide down it and thus avoid the high factor fall.

For the OP - if you're happy with heights and climbing, consider trying something like Col Dei Bos (AKA Degli Alpini) as your first, or possibly Sandro Pertini or Trincee - all really fun VFs and give you a feel for what it's like with fairly steep, exposed terrain and a cable.

In reply to FH1920:


Thinking of doing Piazetta myself in August, and then heading over the top of Sella to the Valon and Boe lifts back to Corvara for an interesting full day (with two cars, obviously). How long do you reckon it takes to get from Pordoi to Piz Boe using Piazetta if one is a reasonably competent ferrataist? The Cicerone book only gives times for the round trip.

In reply to tehmarks:

I would also see a VF more as an adventurous way of hillwalking, pulling up on the cable always works with a bit of climbing experience - it's more the whole setting, approach, decent (which could be loose and slippery), weather conditions etc. which can make the trip serious!
Often free climbing (not using the cable in this case) is not possible - might be a blank wall with a ladder leading up or just a queue of people behind you not willing to wait till you figured out how to climb a certain section.
And remember, falling is not an option on a VF, even with a proper Via Ferrata Set including an energy absorption system you'll have a high impact fall and could get seriously hurt.

In reply to tehmarks:
To make things tricky there's no grade agreement between countries or even guide books. Look at the length, steepness and height gained (most guide books detail this alongside the grade). Stamina is your main requirement. You get "sport" routes put up for fun and "mountain" routes designed to get somewhere. A hard graded sports route is really hard. Think overhanging sections and loads of exposure. Mountain routes get a higher grade because of length, altitude, glacier crossings and remoteness etc. but can be technically straight forward.

Do it! They are great fun, generally free, and there's plenty popping up throughout Europe. The family enjoy them too. You'll soon get an idea of the grade, and if you're a rock climber they're easy and you can rest by short clipping and hanging if necessary (a cows-tail/quick-draw is useful for this) Did this once on a French "black" sport route under an overhang. My arms were on strike and I had to tuck myself behind the cable and clip a metal rung to rest.

In reply to sarahlizzy:

That sounds like it would be an excellent, albeit very long day. The hardest part of piazzetta by far is the first 100 m or so of ferrata, but it does keep going on and on. Also the ferrata sort of ends in a rather lose area, which whilst safe enough can be daunting in less than perfect weather. As for timings, I'd recon you'd probably want to allow around 5 hrs or so to the summit of Piz Boe from the Ossario (also worth a look in itself). From memory the decent from Piz Boe to Forcella Pordoi was rather fast and straight forward (even in the mist) so most of the guide time would be spent on the ascent, and I think the timing in the guide book doesn't include summiting.

It's an absolutely brilliant ferrata.

In reply to tallsteve:

Last year I was on a busy ferrata with a horizontal traverse over overhanging ground with not much for the feet. Some people ahead of us obviously weren't climbers, as they were exhausting their biceps clinging to the cable with bent arms. Then the climbing group managed it with a lot less huffing and puffing by laybacking on the cable. But I was feeling particularly lazy and had an extensible sling with me in addition to the VF kit, so I used that to scoot along the cable and saved my arms for later.

In reply to FH1920:

Thanks. That's incredibly helpful!

In reply to tehmarks:

Just looked at the timings on my photos from Piazetta. It was 4 hours from the start to the hut on top. That included a wait at the second steep bit where a couple of guys fell off and hit the queue below. I climbed it without cable hauling and would agree with around VS for a climbing grade.

In reply to FH1920:
The descent is fast. Once you get to the cable car at Sass Pordoi you can run down the scree to the pass.

We spent a night at the Rifugio Boe (by fortuitous accident, the rifugio on the plateau was full) when we did AV2 - it was good fun, and great views at sunset/sunrise.

In reply to sarahlizzy: I've done up Brigadata Tridentina one day, overnight in Sella hut, then down Vf Vallon, up Vf Piz Da Lech, and down to our hotel in the valley east of the cablecar down - Hotel Boe? near Aparthotel Sella on googlemaps? That would definitely be doable if you start at a sensible time, although you need to check and see if VF Vallon is still in place and open - it was in a poor state a few years back with long sections of ripped out anchors and missing suspension bridge. You can always skip Piz Da Lech as the start and finish are fairly close to the top cable car station.

In reply to Toerag:

Thanks. Have done both Brigata Tridentina and Piz Da Lech before. Might have an interest in doing Piz Da Lech again, but probably not Brigata Tridentina. I thought it overgraded (by Cicerone - would have given it a VF grade 2), and found the queues frustrating. The waterfall is pretty though.

In reply to tehmarks:

VF - the most fun you can have with your boots on. Get the Cicerone guide to your area http://www.cicerone.co.uk/product/detail.cfm/book/592/title/via-ferratas-of... and have a heap of fun.

See what I mean on http://www.flickr.com/photos/roofofeurope/sets/72157627114751257/

Steve

In reply to Toerag:

The Cicerone book says it was recabled for 2004. How long ago are you talking about?

In reply to tehmarks:

Thank you all for the input. Pondering the rock grade unaided was more of a curiosity than an idea for how to climb a VF - I've seen quite a few people saying something along the lines of 'even the most difficult VFs are technically easy climbing' and wanted some sort of reference.

Good point with the weather - I'd imagine that being stuck attached to a steel cable with no easy way of retreating/descending in a thunderstorm wouldn't be fun! Definitely something to consider, especially in mid-summer. If you were to chain several VFs together though (with bivying or staying at refuges as appropriate), I'd imagine it might be difficult getting an accurate weather forecast? Well maybe not so much in a refuge, but moreso if there was a bivi involved. Not that I'm planning on doing that, that is.

I'd imagine taking a rope and some gear would also be sensible, either in case of damage or unprotected sections?

In reply to sarahlizzy: checked my logbook - 2005 was when I did it. It's a short VF down alongside a waterfall and I think the original route went down the lefthand side (looking out) then back over a suspension bridge at the bottom. We went down the RHS - the harder top section was cabled fine, but a long gradually descending traverse on easy ground had lost a couple of anchors - the cable was there, but not attached for 40-50ft.
Pisciadu is worth doing without cable hauling if you get stuck in a 100 person jam like we did - the holds are fantastic.

In reply to Toerag:

Thanks!

In reply to tehmarks: A good tip if one of your party is less confident is to take a short rope (~10m) and a belay device, you lead the tricky section then clip above the next bolt and chuck them the end of a rope for a quick belay. You really don't want to fall on VF and this gave us a lot more confidence to get on the harder routes.

They can get very difficult in the rain and backing off is often as tricky as carrying on - so watch the weather!