UKH

I should have known it would happen sooner or later, and yesterday I had my first trad lead fall. My foot slipped I put it down to nerves. I've seen people shook up seriously after this event, and don't want it happening to me.

I was lucky: the fall was clean, my gear held, and I got back on the climb and managed quite a bit more of it. However I did retreat just over half way up due to a case of disco leg. I then seconded the climb fine, although could appreciate how committing some of the moves were on lead as I did them on second. I second lots of HS's and VS's and just don't think, because I'm safe on toprope.

I was pushing my grade. It was my first HS lead, and according to UKC voters on the hard side of that. Before that I had only lead one Severe and several VDiffs. I think I was pushing my grade too much, but I was in Shorn Cliff, and there was nothing decent in my grade left to climb and this climb had such a lovely line, it was calling 'climb me, climb me.'

It did make me think how much harder leading is then seconding - prior to that climb I seconded an HVS. It's amazing how nerves kick in, when I needed good foot placements my leg was shaking. I've suffered disco leg on a lead before but it was a VDiff and I thought well the next move is easy, I'll just stop trying to put gear in here and move on up - I couldn't do this here.

I am trying to take the positives from it: I lead more than half of a HS, I got back on for another go, seconded it and a couple of more climbs after, and most of all, my gear, which I thought was good - held. My friends advice is to go back and second a lot more Severes before moving onto HS and just get leading mileage under my belt to be able to keep a cool head.

Any other advice greatly appreciated.

In reply to SharonC1604: Well done! Not for falling off, but for placing the gear well and getting straight back on to give it another go instead of being lowered down in tears. Sounds to me like you've got exactly the right attitude to climb harder stuff with more experience.

Advice? Get back on the lead as quick as possible, lead as much stuff as you can and spend less time seconding. As you say, leading's completely and utterly different, and a million times more fulfilling. Maybe even go climbing with people less experienced that you so you have to do all the leading - you'll get much more experience that way. After leading another 10 severes, an HS will probably seem fine.

Choose stuff that's in your style so you really enjoy it and climb it well. More experience will cure the disco leg, nothing else will.

I think a first trad lead fall is a positive milestone in climbing - you learn that the system works, and you learn what sort of situation makes you fall off. Like I say, well done!

In reply to SharonC1604:

Just get back out there leading. No point in making a big deal out of it or over-analysing the situation - your foot slipped but your gear held, that's how the system is supposed to work. If anything take it as a confidence booster that you can now have a bit more faith in your placements. I certainly wouldn't really advise doing lots of seconding as a way to help your lead head - the two things are quite different and although seconding is great for physical development it won't help the mental side of things.

In reply to climbingpixie:

Thanks, I think I did an important typo in my initial message - my friends advice is to 'lead' not 'second' a lot more severes.

In reply to SharonC1604: What the other two said - it sound obvious but you don`t learn anything about leading by seconding. And now you know what a good placement looks like.

In reply to SharonC1604:
Yes, well done you & Jon said it all - but one thing, don't get complacent about your gear, just because it was good this time, make sure it's as good as possible every time - and always place gear when you can, not when you need it, that can be too late! And Hard severe is a fuuny grade...

In reply to SharonC1604:
Get out there and lead a few more severes then pick a Hard Severe with a good crack line that will swallow plenty of gear and get on it. Your gear placements are obviously OK so get out there.

In reply to SharonC1604:
Hi Sharon go for you getting back on with it. My latest fall was also on HS but have a bomber blue hex in so had the confidence to make the move. The only way you know where the limit is, is to step over it. The take home message for me was know when to take the risk or consider a different option if you were in a a position of a say decking.

Disco arms Andy

In reply to SharonC1604:
Well done! There is nothing wrong with falling off when your gear is good and you won't hit the ground/ledges. Keep it up on the sharp end.
James

In reply to SharonC1604:

Glad you're ok & taking it in your stride... & my advise is don't do what I did! I'll try to catch you soon for a chat

In reply to James Oswald: How do I put it without sounding like a grumpy old git... Climbing on gear requires a certain amount of caution and prudence, there is something wrong with advising someone that falling off casually after only a few lead climbs is a good Idea.

I have a mate who will now on have fun going through customs due to plates and pins in his pelvis. Hitting the ground is an unfortunate possibility when leading so reduceing you number of falls reduces the chances of full body cavity searches at customs.

In reply to SharonC1604: Falling on lead is going to happen sooner or later, whether it is muscle failure or simply the rock breaking under your fingers. If falling off is a major worry for you (and frankly it is for most people!) then you might do worse than try taking some lead falls on protection that a more experienced friend has first inspected to make sure it is bomber. Look for places where you can take a clean fall obviously.

Making yourself more confident on the lead when trad climbing is a pretty difficult process and I don't think anyone has a shortcut (unless brain surgery of the destructive variety is included). If your fear stems from not knowing what a fall has in store for you (you seemed a little suprised that your gear held your fall) then a couple of things you might try are:
1) Get to know what gear placements are good and what are not. Practice placing loads of gear at the bottom of the cliff and ask someone which bits are good, which ok and which useless. Get someone to give you feedback on gear after every climb you lead.
2) When leading, reassure yourself by looking back at (or just remembering) the last gear, telling yourself that it is good and you know it is good and it is quite close and any fall would be clean and so you can go on to the next move without fear.
3) When you don't think a fall would be safe, get used to making a judgement call based on how the ground ahead looks, how hard a grade the route gets, any guidebook information you have and what the rock quality is like. If you think there is much of a chance you will fall, then retreat - an injury could set you back months or more and it's just another climb you are on after all.
4) Don't be afraid to put in more gear, stand ages at a good rest or downclimb to a rest/more gear. When you are on a single pitch crag and trying routes that are hard for you time is not important, your belayer should be prepared to be patient (longest I've held the rope for on one pitch is 3 hours and that isn't uncommon
5) Try seconding some harder climbs. You might find that when you feel "safe" on a toprope you can climb a lot harder than you thought and this in turn might make you more confident to get on climbs near your limit.

Ok, I'm half way through my bottle of wine so I'm going to stop rambling.

In reply to SharonC1604:

Disco leg usually halts as soon as gear goes in, as it's due to huge amounts of adreneline running through you.

It wouldn't have been the best thing to 'push on' in this situation where you are testing your limit of leading ability.
In the situation you describe (where you've extended your grade limit) I would recommend erring on the side of over-gearing at ever opportunity, even at risk of pumping out.

Risk sometimes has to be taken if clean ascents are important to you. Try to make sure that you stay in control of the amount of risk you take.

Placing gear that will hold you and won't come out when you climb above it is about the most crucial part of any trad climbing ascent, not just in terms of safety, but also in terms of the chances of success!
You've clearly got that right on this occasion, which is a good thing.

In reply to SharonC1604:

It's reassuring that the gear and the system works isn't it? Obviously you don't want to be taking falls all the time, but there's nothing wrong with safe falls to build up your confidence. Well done for pushing on and not collapsing in a heap at the bottom and doubly well done for bailing when things got to hard. There's nothing wrong with bailing or downclimbing, it's better than falling. A couple of tips for pushing you're grade, especially if you're already a confident severe leader.

Seconding harder stuff is a good idea, ideally get on some VSes and higher, so you'll have to the confidence the you can do the moves easily.

I find that pushing into a harder grade is made easier if the first few leads of the grade are climbs that you've seconded previously. When you move onto onsighting, if you can pick stuff that's soft for the grade, then why the hell not! Chances are you can do the moves fine, it's just the head, so if you can get a couple of easy ones under your belt, you'll be 'well I've done HSes before, so I'll be fine on this slightly harder one'.

In reply to SharonC1604: Shorn Cliff is one of my favourite places and its so nice to hear someone say they did a route because they liked the line
If your foot slipped because of disco leg, then make mental note to shake leg regularly when climbing, especially if stood in stressed position.
If foot slipped and you dont know why, then make mental note to observe foot placements next time you go out, especially when yr transfering weight around.
If the foot slipped because the foot placement was polished,that sucks, but you can learn to use polished placements with careful footwork.

I always find it useful to warm up by doing a couple of simple traverses at grnd level and seeing just how far and how little foot placements the rock will provide, before i start climbing.
Good luck

In reply to SharonC1604:

As others have said, the disco-leg is mostly a reaction to the stressful situation you're in and pushing on (other than to a very imminent total rest/safety) is not a good ide, it'll tend to get worse. Getting straight back on after the excitement of a fall raises the chances of debilitating Elvis action!

There are however tricks that can be used to manage it when you're all shook up (uh huh hur...). If you're on good holds then first try dropping your heels as low as they will go and keep them down, this isn't usually totally effective but it buys you time for some deep breaths and a moment of calm which is usually effective. Take the opportunity once calm to look around, plan your next moves and sort some more (or inspect) gear. Getting your heels on the hold is more effective while you calm yourself but often impractical/uncomfortable.

Don't over analyse things, falls happen and you usually get away with it. Certainly at this stage of your climbing career they're best avoided but I'd not get too hung up on it, get back out there and climb. Don't be too surprised if your confidence is a little knocked (or inflated!) just keep cool and work through it, it doesn't take long.

jk

In reply to SharonC1604:

You can stop disco leg by simply dropping your heel. If things are getting a bit much an dyou're becomng anxious, the add that to the things that you do to calm down and get things back on an even keel - drop a heel to stop a twitchy leg, take some deep breaths, ease off on the holds and stop crushing them to death, stand up and in balance and make sure you're not leaning in and have a look around to change you focus a bit before you come back to the problem at hand

In reply to SharonC1604:

The first one is always exciting, especially if it's unexpected! As others have said keep leading, given the choice between placing gear and moving on err on placing gear until you have more experience, and keep pushing on well-protected stuff. Used competently the system works!

In reply to SharonC1604:

Thanks for the advice and encouragement everyone, especially getting over the nerves and disco leg. I certainly intend to get back there leading soon, however looking at getting leading mileage under my belt right now rather than going for higher grades. Fortunately I also like seconding, it means the chance to try harder stuff, even E numbers in relative safety.

In reply to kiwi boy:

Thanks for the message Andy. You've got the disco arms and I have the disco leg problem. Well done for attempting the Gnome King, it's a well known sandbag.

In reply to SharonC1604:

Hey Sharon. Good skills! All I can offer by way of advice is look where your feet are going - I find when I am freaking out that shifting feet a little can make a very precarious position feel a lot more solid. No tips for avoiding disco legs though. A well timed Uh-huh-huh can make your belayer and you laugh about it though : )

In reply to SharonC1604:

get back on the horse, which you did so all good. Keep at it with the leading - it becomes less scary over time. I lobbed off an HVS at Shorn Cliff earlier this year (wet/grim top out) when a foothold broke. The next route I did that day was an E1. It wasn't a pleasant experience doing the E1 straight after (also wet in places! but it had to be done really otherwise my head might have been buggered for a while..

Maybe do some routes with semi-hanging belays - certainly taught me to trust gear.

When you're v happy with your pro get on some well protected VS'. You'll find moving back to HS a doddle, or you'll just keep going.

In reply to SharonC1604: The other week, I went out in the evening after falling off a severe and decking out at Ramshaw a few days previous. I led about seven Ss and HVDs then led my first HVS because I felt so confident. Just bag lots of easy routes quickly and you'll soon be upping your grade at this level.