UKH

Hey all, after some recent comments out on the crags I thought I'd share what I've been doing for ages ...

http://www.youtube.com/user/blanchie14c

I have been red marking my screw gates for a while now with a bit of red insulation tape. As you can see from the attached link, a inch or so of red electrical tape or 4mm wide> is stuck to the crab so that when the screw is done up, the red tape is hidden beneath the screw body. The idea is to provide a visual system of easily seeing if the crab is done up or not. We’ve all done it – stripping a belay only to find a crucial screw gate wasn’t even done up! I also tend to be sat around at the top of crags and get that thought in my head that says “is that screw done up?” a quick glance and not being able to see the red tape tells me the screw is indeed done up. The tape is as I said, about ¾ or an inch or so long and 3 or 4 mm wide. It doesn’t go all the way around the crab as the cut away for the gate is there. A drop of super glue at the very ends stops any chance of the ends lifting up. It doesn’t interfere with the operation of the crab at all. I toyed with the idea of putting green tape on the other end so it would be green tape = crab screwed up and red tape = crab undone. A couple of problems with this, firstly on some screw gates there isn’t room for the screw body to smoothly screw over the top of the tape in the unscrewed mode and secondly, just as red implies danger, green implies safety. No climbing is ‘safe’ 100% so perhaps better not to possibly get complacent about being ‘safe’. A search on the net I did at the time showed that Petzl had already produced crabs of this nature but they don’t seem to be available in the UK. They are called Red Alert crabs and the red indicator looks to be a spot of paint in a dimple under the screw body, other countries have them as the Petzl locker or Attache...
http://www.shopwiki.com/_Petzl+Locker+Screw-Lock+Carabiner?o=426621389&...
Just a little something that you may or may not want to play around with, I like it - its simple, cheap and effective!

In reply to blanchie14c: no offence but it seems like a lot of effort, when setting up belays do you know the chance of the rope coming out of a screwgate? all the protection in the belay would be in tension and the chance of the gate opening, the rope jumping out is quite slim if at all never.

The only possibly important situation would be on the carabiner which has your belay device on and belaying from.

In reply to blanchie14c:

Very clever, yes I use a Petzl oval one like you described for caving with my stop, cant remember the name of it but as i said its oval not D shaped.

In reply to blanchie14c:

I've got a Petzl Attache.

But I bought it for it's size, not the coloured bit.

I wouldn't spend time making my own.

In reply to will9911:

None taken mate but in answer to your question, being on the rock for over 25 years has indicated to me that ropes jumping out of crabs is a somewhat rare occasion!
However, the point is that I have worked in a safety critical enviroment for 21 of those years and I have been trained in and I am active in accident and incident investigation. In a high number of cases, accident and incidents are caused by a collection of little contributing factors, not one single event. If just one of these events could have been avoided, the single, big event could have been prevented. If this cancels just one of those little events by its use in a million times then its pupose would have been served.

In reply to blanchie14c: nice idea. Red nail varnish any better?

In reply to blanchie14c:

I can see what people mean about it being a bit of a faff to do the mod yourself, but if I could be bothered I would. I think its a neat extra safety feature and im surprised its not included on more krabs as standard.

In reply to thin bob:
Possibly, that really bright red...

<like I'm gonna walk in boots and ask for that!>

In reply to Sargey: One of my HMS Krabs has a red-line, not sure the make but got it from the shop without even realising...
Problem I see is when using someone else's kit, no red-line, think it's done up, forget to check. If it was provided on ALL screwgates by every supplier it would be a good extra feature, but if one or 2 do it, it may lead to people forgetting to check when using gear without it.

In reply to thin bob:

Yeah - that's an old trick, works.

In reply to jonny2vests:
On Mrs B's shopping list for me!

In reply to blanchie14c: What happens if the tape comes off? Is it not better to get used to checking the gate is done up by phisically checking?

I like the o-ring quickdraw though. Have you tried castration rings? The advantage is if you want to spin the gate round or change the crag you just role the ring up the sling.

In reply to kilner:
Lets get one thing clear - This does NOT replace making sure they are done up! If the tape comes off, you are simply in the postion of using a normal screwgate. The idea is just to stop the fleeting though you get sometime on belays - have i done that gate up...
The O rings I use are from a 'selection' box. I used to be in the motor trade and still got shit loads of stuff from when my dad closed the garage. You can still the boxes, machine mart and similar. tenner for a box full. You get 30 or 40 you can use for sling draws. Heard good things over the years about castration ring. will get a box. Thanks for your thoughts. blanch

In reply to blanchie14c:

We used clear nail varnish to seal microscope slides in the lab and one day we sent out a Iranian male Muslim student to get some. He came back from a very busy boots at lunchtime a bit confused at why everyone was looking at him a bit strange. He even got the stuff with the glitter in it.
That gave us out minute of fun for the day trying to imagine this bloke wearing nail varnish.

In reply to Sargey:

I think all of Petzl's screw-gates have it. Maybe there's some sort of patent that stops anyone else from doing the same?

In reply to nufkin:


surely a patent would be stupid, as this could prove to be an important safety feature?
money being made on safety ideas is surely immoral to say the least!

In reply to blanchie14c:

Heatshrink would work neatly too.

Or just use wiregates/quickdraws... you can't forget to do them up
jk

In reply to TomBond:
Failing to reward people who invent important (safety) features is immoral and shortsighted as there would then be no incentive for them to develop and publicise their ideas. This is the basic concept enshrined in the patent system and has been for hundreds of years.
The Petzl marker is probably covered by US Patent 7320159 and EP 376860 and is certainly included in the patents for a number of their other karabiners.

In reply to jimtitt: fair enough, i take your point, however, does it not impeed or prevent other companies doing the same thing, or increase the cost of the gear to the consumer?

In reply to TomBond:

Patents don't necessarily prevent other companies using an idea, they just mean the company/individual has time to recoup/make money from their work/idea.

Yes, with some products (medicines being an obvious example) it can seem desperately unfair that there's essentially a monopoly provider of a particular product. On the flipside they've often invested ridiculous sums in R&D to get that one lucrative, short lived patent. Not much consolation if you're dying and can't afford the drug you need...

In reply to TomBond:
Other companies can usually licence the idea from the patent holder, if this puts the price up then the customer has the choice!
Patents generally stimulate innovation as the other companies have to find other ways of achieving the same objective so at the end of the patent periods the world has loads of good ideas for free instead of just one idea.

In reply to blanchie14c:

i did a training course a few years ago that went for 2 weeks.

after the second day, leaving a screwgate unscrewed failed you for the whole days evaluation, 3 days failed the course was failed.

no one blew 3 days and none of us has probably left a gate unscrewed since, i know i havent.

use nail polish or whatever sure, but serious skinnerian brainwashing works better.