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I've been climbing for bout a year & half & leading for bout half of that. Mainly inside, but have gradualy started doing some very easy stuff outside. Got bit nervous now & again, but managed to control the head game & push on before.
I took my 1st real tumble on lead yesterday on a route that was a bit of a challenge for the grade & I'm ok bar for the odd bruise, but it has had a real mental effect on me. I was dead keen on climbing & had all kinds of dreams of long multi pitches, but now I'm just really aware of my mortality!
All my gear held fine, my belayer was ace, an experienced member of our party joined me on the shelf & made sure I could be lowered down safely of the gear. So really it was all ok, then why am I still sitting here going through a million "what if" scenarios? I realised climbing's very much a head game, but how do all you experienced UKCers deal with this or does this only happen to beginners like me who try something they really should have seconded first?
Thanks
I took my 1st real tumble on lead yesterday on a route that was a bit of a challenge for the grade & I'm ok bar for the odd bruise, but it has had a real mental effect on me. I was dead keen on climbing & had all kinds of dreams of long multi pitches, but now I'm just really aware of my mortality!
All my gear held fine, my belayer was ace, an experienced member of our party joined me on the shelf & made sure I could be lowered down safely of the gear. So really it was all ok, then why am I still sitting here going through a million "what if" scenarios? I realised climbing's very much a head game, but how do all you experienced UKCers deal with this or does this only happen to beginners like me who try something they really should have seconded first?
Thanks
Falling is a very big part of climbing and something that is not easily gotten used too.
I've taken some big nasty falls over the years and luckily im fine but i have friends which have come off worse and after each time i have gone through a period where its made me think but then my love of climbing has always got me back on the rock.
Its all about trusting your gear placements and if the gear on the route is shit you've really got to trust yourself.
if you dont then dont try things which your not happy on, a good climber is an alive climber.
hope that helps a bit
I've taken some big nasty falls over the years and luckily im fine but i have friends which have come off worse and after each time i have gone through a period where its made me think but then my love of climbing has always got me back on the rock.
Its all about trusting your gear placements and if the gear on the route is shit you've really got to trust yourself.
if you dont then dont try things which your not happy on, a good climber is an alive climber.
hope that helps a bit
In reply to Ireddek:
You're first fall is always a memorable one and it was going to happen sooner or later. What if scenarios are a waste of time. You're gear held so you can have confidence in that. Always try to draw positives from an experience. A first fall should be something to be proud of in a way. You did it, you pushed yourself and you came out ok. Best thing to do, give it a week or so then get back on that route, look at what went wrong and nail it, staying relaxed and carm. Of course it is easy to say that when you have some experience under your belt.
In order of dealing with it, you have to reason it out, if you have good gear great, if not and it rips whilst you fall, at least it'll slow you down!
My best bit of advice is to practice falling. Get used to it, then it won't be such a shock. And practice on trad gear. See how long you can hold on for whilst you're pumped - you'd be amazed at how long you can keep going for. Fall next to your gear, then slowly increase the legnth of falls untill you are comfortable.
Hope that helps!
You're first fall is always a memorable one and it was going to happen sooner or later. What if scenarios are a waste of time. You're gear held so you can have confidence in that. Always try to draw positives from an experience. A first fall should be something to be proud of in a way. You did it, you pushed yourself and you came out ok. Best thing to do, give it a week or so then get back on that route, look at what went wrong and nail it, staying relaxed and carm. Of course it is easy to say that when you have some experience under your belt.
In order of dealing with it, you have to reason it out, if you have good gear great, if not and it rips whilst you fall, at least it'll slow you down!
My best bit of advice is to practice falling. Get used to it, then it won't be such a shock. And practice on trad gear. See how long you can hold on for whilst you're pumped - you'd be amazed at how long you can keep going for. Fall next to your gear, then slowly increase the legnth of falls untill you are comfortable.
Hope that helps!
In reply to Ireddek: Happens to pretty much everyone at various times - you just have to approach climbing and mountaineering with the attitude that if it was easy it wouldn't be worth doing.
Man up or just go cuddle your mum. It's your call.
In reply to smithers25: Helpful.
In reply to Ireddek:
If you think the climb's within your ability, the gear's good and you're not really going to get hurt, I'd get back on it before it gets to you too much. But maybe leave it alone for a bit if it doesn't meet all three criteria...
Anyone can fall, and seconding first doesn't always help. So perhaps I might admit to this one 'bogey' route, which I first seconded without incident 19 years ago but have fallen off every time I've led it. Should be simple enough because it's within my grade and I know how to do it, but see what a few leader falls can do to you!
> how do all you experienced UKCers deal with this
If you think the climb's within your ability, the gear's good and you're not really going to get hurt, I'd get back on it before it gets to you too much. But maybe leave it alone for a bit if it doesn't meet all three criteria...
> or does this only happen to beginners like me who try something they really should have seconded first?
Anyone can fall, and seconding first doesn't always help. So perhaps I might admit to this one 'bogey' route, which I first seconded without incident 19 years ago but have fallen off every time I've led it. Should be simple enough because it's within my grade and I know how to do it, but see what a few leader falls can do to you!
In reply to marsbar: Well somebody needed to say it straight.
In reply to Ireddek:
Being a girl manning up's a foreign concept! Thanks for all your thoughts guys hearing that experienced individuals like yourselves had to get round this kinda thing in a way as well helps & means there's a glimmer of hope for this feeble minded girl! So I now just need to mentally "dust myself off" & get on with it I suppose as I really did/do love it.
Being a girl manning up's a foreign concept! Thanks for all your thoughts guys hearing that experienced individuals like yourselves had to get round this kinda thing in a way as well helps & means there's a glimmer of hope for this feeble minded girl! So I now just need to mentally "dust myself off" & get on with it I suppose as I really did/do love it.
In reply to bluerockman: Two weeks ago the headline in the Sheffield Star on the 7th of september "climber dies after fall"
Climbing is not a silly little game "If not it rips whilst you fall, at least it'll slow you down!" It seems that an un-paced push onto harder routes without the skills and the misguided belief that all falls are safe is foolish at best and lethal at worst.
Climbing is not a silly little game "If not it rips whilst you fall, at least it'll slow you down!" It seems that an un-paced push onto harder routes without the skills and the misguided belief that all falls are safe is foolish at best and lethal at worst.
In reply to Ireddek: Thats the spirit. It's the love that keeps us falling.
In reply to smithers25:
Ok then. If you've got nowt useful to say then keep the gob shut.
> (In reply to marsbar) Well somebody needed to say it straight.
Ok then. If you've got nowt useful to say then keep the gob shut.
In reply to Ireddek:
If your gear held and you only got bruised, then you can be reasonably sure that you're placing it properly at least
fwiw, I took a moderately nasty fall in april (2 weeks in hospital) and although ok indoors, I still get scared from time to time leading routes on crags. All I can say is keep at it and your leading head will return. Your first fall is the worst anyway - at least it's out of the way now
If your gear held and you only got bruised, then you can be reasonably sure that you're placing it properly at least
fwiw, I took a moderately nasty fall in april (2 weeks in hospital) and although ok indoors, I still get scared from time to time leading routes on crags. All I can say is keep at it and your leading head will return. Your first fall is the worst anyway - at least it's out of the way now
In reply to Ireddek:
It's possible to really push yourself hard, mentally & physically; above very solid gear
It's also very necessary to face the prospect of a fall sometimes, if you want to push yourself mentally & physically.
If you just want to lie down your sword and join the 'I climb for fun brigade' (cos you don't like getting scared and stressed during committment) then just downgrade and stay downgraded.
But I should point out (from my experience) that contrary to what some people believe, pushing yourself hard, enjoyment and safety are not at all mutually exclusive!
It's possible to really push yourself hard, mentally & physically; above very solid gear
It's also very necessary to face the prospect of a fall sometimes, if you want to push yourself mentally & physically.
If you just want to lie down your sword and join the 'I climb for fun brigade' (cos you don't like getting scared and stressed during committment) then just downgrade and stay downgraded.
But I should point out (from my experience) that contrary to what some people believe, pushing yourself hard, enjoyment and safety are not at all mutually exclusive!
In reply to Ireddek: lol well said
In reply to Ireddek:
I think What ifs can be positive too - the answer can often be "I still would have been fine.". What if the gear had ripped? The next bit would have held me ? (if not, get more gear in in the future). Ground falls aren't necessarily too bad, especially if the landing is good - soft ground, bouldering mats, steep ground you'll tumble on (but not into rocks or off cliffs). The further away from the belay you are, the smaller the fall factor on the rope will be for the same length of fall. Multi-pitches mean that you're probably too far up to hit the ground, so long as the belay is solid and the rope intact (though you might hit a ledge instead ... )
I guess it's all about trying to be rational and realistic in weighing the risks and escape options.
I think What ifs can be positive too - the answer can often be "I still would have been fine.". What if the gear had ripped? The next bit would have held me ? (if not, get more gear in in the future). Ground falls aren't necessarily too bad, especially if the landing is good - soft ground, bouldering mats, steep ground you'll tumble on (but not into rocks or off cliffs). The further away from the belay you are, the smaller the fall factor on the rope will be for the same length of fall. Multi-pitches mean that you're probably too far up to hit the ground, so long as the belay is solid and the rope intact (though you might hit a ledge instead ... )
I guess it's all about trying to be rational and realistic in weighing the risks and escape options.
In reply to Ireddek:
No. You just need to be aware of what your situation is whenever you're on lead and make sure you can cope accordingly. Falling or not
> (In reply to Ireddek)
>
> So I now just need to mentally "dust myself off" & get on with it I suppose as I really did/do love it.
>
> So I now just need to mentally "dust myself off" & get on with it I suppose as I really did/do love it.
No. You just need to be aware of what your situation is whenever you're on lead and make sure you can cope accordingly. Falling or not
In reply to Ireddek: Dave told me about your fall. My advice would be to get back on the horse, so to speak. Get out and climb anything and everything with experienced leaders, go bouldering, go scrambling, anything to keep you going out on rock. And enjoy it. And yes Girls can man up too!
In reply to Ireddek:
Attitudes to falling differ as much as responses to it as you can see from the responses you've had.
Some would consider a fall that they got away with as a wakeup call to chose routes they're less likely to fail on, reduce the risk they're exposed to, climb more conservatively. This is fair enough, we each seek something subtly different from our hobby but it's not the only approach. Nor do you have to stick with a given approach in the long term.
Alternatively you could (when your heart's stopped flapping and the adrenaline has subsided) look objectively at what's happened and realise that some of the things you've considered unknown or unproven are now a little better understood. Things like your gear, your partner, how it feels and how you respond to a fall.
Plenty of people shrug off safe falls with little or no concern (me included thankfully). Shrugging off the ones with unexpected causes, outcomes or where you get hurt is harder to do (and probably unwise). Falling holds little fear while you know you'll be ok, where there's doubt it's a whole different game. Seems to me that you could look at this tumble two ways, I'd try to think of your fall as having actually eliminated a little bit of doubt.
jk
Attitudes to falling differ as much as responses to it as you can see from the responses you've had.
Some would consider a fall that they got away with as a wakeup call to chose routes they're less likely to fail on, reduce the risk they're exposed to, climb more conservatively. This is fair enough, we each seek something subtly different from our hobby but it's not the only approach. Nor do you have to stick with a given approach in the long term.
Alternatively you could (when your heart's stopped flapping and the adrenaline has subsided) look objectively at what's happened and realise that some of the things you've considered unknown or unproven are now a little better understood. Things like your gear, your partner, how it feels and how you respond to a fall.
Plenty of people shrug off safe falls with little or no concern (me included thankfully). Shrugging off the ones with unexpected causes, outcomes or where you get hurt is harder to do (and probably unwise). Falling holds little fear while you know you'll be ok, where there's doubt it's a whole different game. Seems to me that you could look at this tumble two ways, I'd try to think of your fall as having actually eliminated a little bit of doubt.
jk
In reply to Ireddek:
I had the same problem after coming off a couple of years ago. It took ages before I started pushing myself again (until last Sunday in fact).
I would suggest some chilled out easy stuff to get the feel of the rock back*. Low grade mountain routes can be good for this as you get plenty of time to sit around and enjoy the view.
Give me a shout if you want to get out again. I'm probably going to be at UCR tomorrow evening if you are up for it.
Your placements were all fine by the way.
*Alternatively you could go for the coke in the chalk bag. That works too.
I had the same problem after coming off a couple of years ago. It took ages before I started pushing myself again (until last Sunday in fact).
I would suggest some chilled out easy stuff to get the feel of the rock back*. Low grade mountain routes can be good for this as you get plenty of time to sit around and enjoy the view.
Give me a shout if you want to get out again. I'm probably going to be at UCR tomorrow evening if you are up for it.
Your placements were all fine by the way.
*Alternatively you could go for the coke in the chalk bag. That works too.
In reply to Ireddek:
>"it has had a real mental effect on me"
It may be an over simplification but there are two types of fall.
1) You place a bomber bit of kit and go for an iffy move/long run-out. Sometimes you make it and sometimes you don't.
2) You pop off unexpectedly.
I find type 1 has no mental after effects if, before committing to the move, you actively tell yourself you are prepared to take the fall.
Type 2 on the other hand (if you survive) is a lesson that serves to remind you of the importance of climbing carefully and building a robust protection system.
You'll always get yourself into the odd sticky situation but I regonise these as a failures to read the rock and my limitations and this is worthy of some soul searching. Anyone can climb out of control, it's harder to get stronger, fitter, more skillful.
It might take a while but you'll get your head back. Some bouldering leading to some easy highball(ish) stuff might help.
>"it has had a real mental effect on me"
It may be an over simplification but there are two types of fall.
1) You place a bomber bit of kit and go for an iffy move/long run-out. Sometimes you make it and sometimes you don't.
2) You pop off unexpectedly.
I find type 1 has no mental after effects if, before committing to the move, you actively tell yourself you are prepared to take the fall.
Type 2 on the other hand (if you survive) is a lesson that serves to remind you of the importance of climbing carefully and building a robust protection system.
You'll always get yourself into the odd sticky situation but I regonise these as a failures to read the rock and my limitations and this is worthy of some soul searching. Anyone can climb out of control, it's harder to get stronger, fitter, more skillful.
It might take a while but you'll get your head back. Some bouldering leading to some easy highball(ish) stuff might help.
In reply to Ireddek:
'The leader never falls.' That old hemp-era rule served me well until my first fall...
'The leader never falls.' That old hemp-era rule served me well until my first fall...
In reply to Ireddek:
Most people go through those scenarios, especially early on whilst they are learning their own abilities. You need to get back on the bike and start leading easy stuff well within your capability again. Time on routes with a supportive partner is the key and don't drop the leading - if you do your technical ability will get way ahead of your 'head'.
Most people go through those scenarios, especially early on whilst they are learning their own abilities. You need to get back on the bike and start leading easy stuff well within your capability again. Time on routes with a supportive partner is the key and don't drop the leading - if you do your technical ability will get way ahead of your 'head'.
In reply to Cragrat Rich:
You really do show your lack of experience here Rich, having watched you wobble on the end of a rope, a rather harrowing experience i no longer wish to repeat thankfully. I have climbed much longer and with much more talented climbers than you, i will be climbing when you have "got bored".
Climbing can carry a big price, not just to you but to the people around you/ A lesson maybe you cant learn.
> But I should point out (from my experience) that contrary to what some people believe, pushing yourself hard, enjoyment and safety are not at all mutually exclusive!
You really do show your lack of experience here Rich, having watched you wobble on the end of a rope, a rather harrowing experience i no longer wish to repeat thankfully. I have climbed much longer and with much more talented climbers than you, i will be climbing when you have "got bored".
Climbing can carry a big price, not just to you but to the people around you/ A lesson maybe you cant learn.
In reply to Ireddek:
Firstly, glad you're *okay* as that's main thing if you do fall.
I took a pretty nasty fall last year and can safely say my head was totally screwed for quite some time. Anyways, here's what I did to try and overcome it.
* Get back climbing as soon as you can, the longer you leave it the harder it gets and the more mangled your head gets.
* Stick to leading stuff you've either done before or keep well within your comfort zone.
* Gradually increase the grades/difficulty/exposure etc but keep it safe, pick well protected climbs.
* Bouldering/highballs might help. However, they didn't work for me as my main issue was committing to moves above gear (and getting off the ground in the first place as I felt like I was going to puke when I tied in).
* Do what feels right for you, if you don't feel up for leading, second some climbs, do some easy scrambling.
* Above all enjoy what you're doing and don't force yourself to do stuff just because you think you should.
Firstly, glad you're *okay* as that's main thing if you do fall.
I took a pretty nasty fall last year and can safely say my head was totally screwed for quite some time. Anyways, here's what I did to try and overcome it.
* Get back climbing as soon as you can, the longer you leave it the harder it gets and the more mangled your head gets.
* Stick to leading stuff you've either done before or keep well within your comfort zone.
* Gradually increase the grades/difficulty/exposure etc but keep it safe, pick well protected climbs.
* Bouldering/highballs might help. However, they didn't work for me as my main issue was committing to moves above gear (and getting off the ground in the first place as I felt like I was going to puke when I tied in).
* Do what feels right for you, if you don't feel up for leading, second some climbs, do some easy scrambling.
* Above all enjoy what you're doing and don't force yourself to do stuff just because you think you should.
In reply to Ireddek:
It all makes me think of the first time I fell off a climb. I had just placed a hex so it was camming, pulled up rope to clip in and my feet slipped from under me! That was rather scary, but the cam that was my next placement held well. I stopped climbing for the rest of the day and just bouldered because it shook me up a fair bit. But as soon as I could I got back into trad leads (3 days after as it happens). What I would have liked to do was go back and finish that climb, but I haven't been back in that area.
It all makes me think of the first time I fell off a climb. I had just placed a hex so it was camming, pulled up rope to clip in and my feet slipped from under me! That was rather scary, but the cam that was my next placement held well. I stopped climbing for the rest of the day and just bouldered because it shook me up a fair bit. But as soon as I could I got back into trad leads (3 days after as it happens). What I would have liked to do was go back and finish that climb, but I haven't been back in that area.
In reply to Ireddek:
You don't need to fall to feel the fear... I've never had a real leader fall (one or two slumps onto gear, hasty retreats/erm slips back onto the deck notwithstanding), but get so increasingly ensnared by weighing up the consequences going for it or not that I pretty much operate at VS/boulder at the moment. Hey ho.
You don't need to fall to feel the fear... I've never had a real leader fall (one or two slumps onto gear, hasty retreats/erm slips back onto the deck notwithstanding), but get so increasingly ensnared by weighing up the consequences going for it or not that I pretty much operate at VS/boulder at the moment. Hey ho.
In reply to muppetfilter:
Do you have to work at that sneering superiority or does it come naturally?
jk
Do you have to work at that sneering superiority or does it come naturally?
jk
In reply to jkarran:
I detect an undercurrent their !
I think Cragrat may have eaten Muppetfilters mars bar at the crag !!
Aye
Dan
I detect an undercurrent their !
I think Cragrat may have eaten Muppetfilters mars bar at the crag !!
Aye
Dan
In reply to jkarran: I bow to the true master of sniveling sarcasm, you do it so much better.
In reply to Ireddek:
Except for the odd small fall back onto my gear, my first fall was when traversing the pinnicles on pinnacle ridge route (Pen y ole wen).
A really special fall as it's only a VD, I just slipped and lost contact with the rock and pendulemed into the next pinnacle, hitting a ledge on the way and busting my ankle..
My what if consisted of...
1) what if i'd taken the easy path avoiding the pinnacles...but why would I have done that?
and....
2) On here I saw picks of people sitting on the pinnacles without a rope on and was like, shit, if I'd fallen without a rope...that would have been messy, eurgh!!!
I also realised I needed to practice my skills because I knew my partner could have rescued me if i'd knocked myself out or something, but I was unsure if I could do the same in reverse...eek!
Except for the odd small fall back onto my gear, my first fall was when traversing the pinnicles on pinnacle ridge route (Pen y ole wen).
A really special fall as it's only a VD, I just slipped and lost contact with the rock and pendulemed into the next pinnacle, hitting a ledge on the way and busting my ankle..
My what if consisted of...
1) what if i'd taken the easy path avoiding the pinnacles...but why would I have done that?
and....
2) On here I saw picks of people sitting on the pinnacles without a rope on and was like, shit, if I'd fallen without a rope...that would have been messy, eurgh!!!
I also realised I needed to practice my skills because I knew my partner could have rescued me if i'd knocked myself out or something, but I was unsure if I could do the same in reverse...eek!
Ah and I never got freaked out when leading, before I had my fall. Post fall I got into climbing indoors, building my confidence, practicing on easyier stuff outdoors and climbing with friends who understand.
In reply to Ireddek:
Yes you can die climbing or seriously hurt yourself, funnily a lot of people seem surprised to discover this, do they not read participation statements, do they think it`s all just a joke and it cannot happen to them.
I had a series of bad falls 12 months ago and very nearly packed climbing in earlier this year but I dropped my grade right down to V Diff and with alot of help from a great bunch of mates, I have slowly crept back up to just about were I was and really enjoying the whole deal and if anything am more enthusiastic and hopefully I shall think of pushing my grades again next year.
Just climb within your comfort zone and enjoy the enviroment and the moves, you have to be happy were you are, if your crapping yourself and over gripping, just drop a grade or two into your comfort zone or pack it in altogether, it is supposed to be fun you know.
Cheers Beds
Yes you can die climbing or seriously hurt yourself, funnily a lot of people seem surprised to discover this, do they not read participation statements, do they think it`s all just a joke and it cannot happen to them.
I had a series of bad falls 12 months ago and very nearly packed climbing in earlier this year but I dropped my grade right down to V Diff and with alot of help from a great bunch of mates, I have slowly crept back up to just about were I was and really enjoying the whole deal and if anything am more enthusiastic and hopefully I shall think of pushing my grades again next year.
Just climb within your comfort zone and enjoy the enviroment and the moves, you have to be happy were you are, if your crapping yourself and over gripping, just drop a grade or two into your comfort zone or pack it in altogether, it is supposed to be fun you know.
Cheers Beds
In reply to Dan Goodwin:
Might have stood on it by accident?
Or fell on it!
> (In reply to jkarran)
>
> I detect an undercurrent their !
> I think Cragrat may have eaten Muppetfilters mars bar at the crag !!
>
>
> I detect an undercurrent their !
> I think Cragrat may have eaten Muppetfilters mars bar at the crag !!
>
Might have stood on it by accident?
Or fell on it!
In reply to muppetfilter:
Have you read my logbook lately? 8-)
That's just bitchy. You watched me struggle through the crux of Eye of the Needle (above solid gear) and grab the onsight. I was dead proud of that one!!
Very immature statement M! My dads bigger than yours type stuff...
I don't know what you're on about here; 'I should be careful who I push myself physically & mentally infront of' - is that what it means... and are you serious??
> (In reply to Cragrat Rich)
> [...]
> [...]
> You really do show your lack of experience here Rich,
Have you read my logbook lately? 8-)
> having watched you wobble on the end of a rope, a rather harrowing experience i no longer wish to repeat thankfully.
That's just bitchy. You watched me struggle through the crux of Eye of the Needle (above solid gear) and grab the onsight. I was dead proud of that one!!
> I have climbed much longer and with much more talented climbers than you, i will be climbing when you have "got bored".
Very immature statement M! My dads bigger than yours type stuff...
> Climbing can carry a big price, not just to you but to the people around you/ A lesson maybe you cant learn.
I don't know what you're on about here; 'I should be careful who I push myself physically & mentally infront of' - is that what it means... and are you serious??
In reply to Ireddek: Sometimes it is just a case of getting back on the bike. How many cyclists would there be if every young child who had their stabilisers removed and fell off never got back on.
Just look at what you did right, what you did wrong and what the potential scenarios could have come from those things and then learn from it. I would suggest dropping your lead grade two or three grades so that you can get a feel for the rock again. You will get past this if you want to.
Just look at what you did right, what you did wrong and what the potential scenarios could have come from those things and then learn from it. I would suggest dropping your lead grade two or three grades so that you can get a feel for the rock again. You will get past this if you want to.
In reply to Fiona Reid:
> (In reply to Ireddek)
>
> Firstly, glad you're *okay* as that's main thing if you do fall.
>
> * Above all enjoy what you're doing and don't force yourself to do stuff just because you think you should.
... Very good advice. Ignore that macho bulls**t voice in your head. Everyone's different and only you will know when you're ready. Good luck>
> Firstly, glad you're *okay* as that's main thing if you do fall.
>
> * Above all enjoy what you're doing and don't force yourself to do stuff just because you think you should.
In reply to Ireddek:
Thank you for all your wise words, encouragement, experience shared, honesty and overwhelming response it is very much appreciated & has helped me to look at it all from different angles.
I think it's great that there's such an excellent network of experienced climbers on here that's happy to share their pearls with those just learning to tie there climbing shoes! Not all sports/hobbies have this as readily at a beginner's disposal.
I've decided to step back from it all & go on my holiday end of the week first & hopefully start to look at it all rationally instead of emotionally. Then come back in 2 weeks time & get going again! (End of the day I've got all this lovely new shiny gear that I can't let go to waste!) I might just enlist some of the knights in shining armour (with potentially dodgy chalk bags) to keep an eye out for me then again.
Thank you for all your wise words, encouragement, experience shared, honesty and overwhelming response it is very much appreciated & has helped me to look at it all from different angles.
I think it's great that there's such an excellent network of experienced climbers on here that's happy to share their pearls with those just learning to tie there climbing shoes! Not all sports/hobbies have this as readily at a beginner's disposal.
I've decided to step back from it all & go on my holiday end of the week first & hopefully start to look at it all rationally instead of emotionally. Then come back in 2 weeks time & get going again! (End of the day I've got all this lovely new shiny gear that I can't let go to waste!) I might just enlist some of the knights in shining armour (with potentially dodgy chalk bags) to keep an eye out for me then again.
In reply to EZ:
I like that! I think i'll use that in my teaching Ez!!!
Katie86 (NSI)
> (In reply to Ireddek) Sometimes it is just a case of getting back on the bike. How many cyclists would there be if every young child who had their stabilisers removed and fell off never got back on.
I like that! I think i'll use that in my teaching Ez!!!
Katie86 (NSI)
In reply to Ireddek:
Awareness of your mortality is a good thing! Climbing is a risk game, but you should be taking calculated risks rather than putting yourself at risk through ignorance or bravardo.
As others have said, falling is very much part of the game, particularly if you take pleasure in pushing your physical limits. However, a few thoughts - go for well protected routes, one piece of gear no matter how good isn't really safe. (I climb on double ropes which helps with this). Also harder routes are often safer - there tends to be less in the way of ledges to hit and if the climb is steep enough you bounce on the end of the rope in fresh air!
Awareness of your mortality is a good thing! Climbing is a risk game, but you should be taking calculated risks rather than putting yourself at risk through ignorance or bravardo.
As others have said, falling is very much part of the game, particularly if you take pleasure in pushing your physical limits. However, a few thoughts - go for well protected routes, one piece of gear no matter how good isn't really safe. (I climb on double ropes which helps with this). Also harder routes are often safer - there tends to be less in the way of ledges to hit and if the climb is steep enough you bounce on the end of the rope in fresh air!
In reply to KT: ty
In reply to Mark Kemball:
I've been thinking about using double ropes for a while! Double the gear! Sounds good
I've been thinking about using double ropes for a while! Double the gear! Sounds good
In reply to the various:
Her gear was actually pretty solid. What she hit was the ledge she had just left, not the ground.
I popped up to see if she was OK and rig a lower off, but all I actually had to do is equalise two already bomber pieces of gear and make sure she was OK.
Falling off happens, but hitting things is much more of a problem on "easy" stuff.
Her gear was actually pretty solid. What she hit was the ledge she had just left, not the ground.
I popped up to see if she was OK and rig a lower off, but all I actually had to do is equalise two already bomber pieces of gear and make sure she was OK.
Falling off happens, but hitting things is much more of a problem on "easy" stuff.
In reply to muppetfilter:
Has to be said, he's got a point though. Pushing yourself, enjoying it and being safe can all happen simultaneously. Maybe not for you, from your response, but some people can.
OP - you need to find a compromise between going so slowly you never get back into leading and jumping back in before you're ready. Itcould take a while it could be instant - just go at the pace that strikes a medium for you. The positives of what ifs shouldn't be overlooked, as people say...
Has to be said, he's got a point though. Pushing yourself, enjoying it and being safe can all happen simultaneously. Maybe not for you, from your response, but some people can.
OP - you need to find a compromise between going so slowly you never get back into leading and jumping back in before you're ready. Itcould take a while it could be instant - just go at the pace that strikes a medium for you. The positives of what ifs shouldn't be overlooked, as people say...
In reply to Ireddek: Something happened to me very simlar recently when i tried my first ever HVS. If you fall off and your still in once picec and nothing is wrong you just need to have another go at it. other wise your shy away and not want to try it and will go on a bit of a downer.
I think its also having the confidence with placing your own gear, and being confident enougth to think if i fall now im fine because that last picece of gear was bomber. So just dont worry about anything eles apart from enjoying the climb.
If i was you i would get outside as soon as you can next and and just climb something that your happy with climbing just to get your confidents back and then give it a month and go back and get that climb that caught u off guard in the bag! (Aslong as its not to far from you grade)
I would say though you should have walked away from this with some postives though! Your gear held, Your good at placments! And your belayer caught you and all you have to show is a few bruies you say. thats pritty good.
Its easy to look at the negative but look deeper and look at the postives!
You can always learn from your mistakes, and sometimes you have to make them to learn.
Mitch
I think its also having the confidence with placing your own gear, and being confident enougth to think if i fall now im fine because that last picece of gear was bomber. So just dont worry about anything eles apart from enjoying the climb.
If i was you i would get outside as soon as you can next and and just climb something that your happy with climbing just to get your confidents back and then give it a month and go back and get that climb that caught u off guard in the bag! (Aslong as its not to far from you grade)
I would say though you should have walked away from this with some postives though! Your gear held, Your good at placments! And your belayer caught you and all you have to show is a few bruies you say. thats pritty good.
Its easy to look at the negative but look deeper and look at the postives!
You can always learn from your mistakes, and sometimes you have to make them to learn.
Mitch
In reply to Ireddek:
I've had a few minor falls but being around the consequences of many more has affected my climbing and left me under no illusions about what can happen on a bad day. I'd suggest that after any unplanned plummet a small mental debrief is definately appropriate, it looks like you got it all right and walked away. It's these events that broaden your climbing horizons and lead to a greater appreciation of the crag, the view, the company and the wildlife rather than just the grade or the tick and actually increase your enjoyment in the long run.
My advice would be to not dwell on it overly, but identify and take on board the learning points with regard to both what went right and what could be improved.
I've had a few minor falls but being around the consequences of many more has affected my climbing and left me under no illusions about what can happen on a bad day. I'd suggest that after any unplanned plummet a small mental debrief is definately appropriate, it looks like you got it all right and walked away. It's these events that broaden your climbing horizons and lead to a greater appreciation of the crag, the view, the company and the wildlife rather than just the grade or the tick and actually increase your enjoyment in the long run.
My advice would be to not dwell on it overly, but identify and take on board the learning points with regard to both what went right and what could be improved.
In reply to Ireddek:
Personally i'd look at the fall as a positive learning experience in the fact that you now know that your gear placements are good and that if you fall you'll live. This is how i look at it but then i've not fallen much and haven't hurt myself in these few falls.
A friend fell on to a cluster of micro-wires and inverted because he got his foot tangled in the ropes. This shook him up and he really lost his head for leading and has never really got it back, you don't want this to happen so go out jump on a few easy routes and you'll get over it.
Personally i'd look at the fall as a positive learning experience in the fact that you now know that your gear placements are good and that if you fall you'll live. This is how i look at it but then i've not fallen much and haven't hurt myself in these few falls.
A friend fell on to a cluster of micro-wires and inverted because he got his foot tangled in the ropes. This shook him up and he really lost his head for leading and has never really got it back, you don't want this to happen so go out jump on a few easy routes and you'll get over it.
In reply to Ireddek:
I fell off last October on an HVS and fell about 20', bashing my wrist on a ledge in the process.
It knocked my confidence for a while even though my gear held well.
I started climbing indoors again after about 3 weeks (on lead) with a belayer I trusted and spent a session jumping off on a safe overhang from further and further above the clip.
When I started climbing outside again, I went back to VS and climbed well protected crack routes with plenty of gear in them.
I've since done a couple of E1s some more HVSs and a load of VSs, some of them quite bold.
Hopefully once you get into a safe environment to practice falling and have a few good days out climbing well protected routes you'll get your mojo back.
If nothing else, at least climb some routes as a second so that you don't lose touch with the rock.
Good luck,
Pete
I fell off last October on an HVS and fell about 20', bashing my wrist on a ledge in the process.
It knocked my confidence for a while even though my gear held well.
I started climbing indoors again after about 3 weeks (on lead) with a belayer I trusted and spent a session jumping off on a safe overhang from further and further above the clip.
When I started climbing outside again, I went back to VS and climbed well protected crack routes with plenty of gear in them.
I've since done a couple of E1s some more HVSs and a load of VSs, some of them quite bold.
Hopefully once you get into a safe environment to practice falling and have a few good days out climbing well protected routes you'll get your mojo back.
If nothing else, at least climb some routes as a second so that you don't lose touch with the rock.
Good luck,
Pete
In reply to Ireddek:
Ingrid, You did well, that gear you placed was solid, and there was lots of it, I know, as you saw I had trouble getting it out. Hopefully the fall has given you confidence in your gear placement.
When you get back from holiday, get back out there. Sometimes having a small fall and being aware of your own mortality can be good for your overall safety - when you get back on the rock you'll make sure you continue to protect your routes well. Incidents can teach us stuff. I'm not sure if I told you I cut my lip open in a surfing collision earlier in the year and had to go to A&E. It knocked my confidence a bit, but now I'm back in the water, I have sure learnt some things about surfing in crowded waters.
Ingrid, You did well, that gear you placed was solid, and there was lots of it, I know, as you saw I had trouble getting it out. Hopefully the fall has given you confidence in your gear placement.
When you get back from holiday, get back out there. Sometimes having a small fall and being aware of your own mortality can be good for your overall safety - when you get back on the rock you'll make sure you continue to protect your routes well. Incidents can teach us stuff. I'm not sure if I told you I cut my lip open in a surfing collision earlier in the year and had to go to A&E. It knocked my confidence a bit, but now I'm back in the water, I have sure learnt some things about surfing in crowded waters.
In reply to muppetfilter: Agree, I wonder how many posters that claim fallings all part of the game or nothing to avoid have seen a partner fall and break his back?
In reply to joolskilly:
Probably not many, given such accidents are thankfully rare.
I had someone I shared a car with once on the way to a crag break a vertebrae in her back in a fall. Still doesn't change my view that well placed solid gear placed by an experienced climber who knows their stuff is fundamentally a similar level (not exact, as nothing is, but similar - maybe more maybe less) of reliability to a bolt.
Probably not many, given such accidents are thankfully rare.
I had someone I shared a car with once on the way to a crag break a vertebrae in her back in a fall. Still doesn't change my view that well placed solid gear placed by an experienced climber who knows their stuff is fundamentally a similar level (not exact, as nothing is, but similar - maybe more maybe less) of reliability to a bolt.
In reply to Ireddek:
Personally, I've never reconciled myself with falling. It's something that I fight tooth and nail to avoid, even sport climbing. I have difficulty with the concept of 'practicing falling', which might be fine for sport routes but is asking for trouble on trad routes.
If you consider that your next moves have a high probability of failure, then you must carefully assess the wisdom of making the moves, based upon the state of your gear and the likely nature of the fall and your chances of making the moves. Being confident in taking falls is four fifths of ***k all use when your gear rips, and may skew your judgement in committing to the moves.
Of course, you may also have no say in falling off, when it all just goes wrong (which would be a fair description of my first fall - first HVS, off route on the crux of an E2 - it didn't go well. The second pitch was worse - no gear worth speaking of that would fit. Traumatic.)
There is always a high degree of uncertainty on trad routes - poor placements, gear that moves after you've moved past it, poor rock, the real possibility of hitting something on the way down and so on. Yes, you should trust your gear, but in my view only so far, right up to the point where you have to place all of your trust in it, having fallen off.
Your major learning point so far - your gear held. So, in extremis, you have proven that you can climb safely. Keep that in mind, and now work to make sure that you really master a skill that I always hope never to test.
Personally, I've never reconciled myself with falling. It's something that I fight tooth and nail to avoid, even sport climbing. I have difficulty with the concept of 'practicing falling', which might be fine for sport routes but is asking for trouble on trad routes.
If you consider that your next moves have a high probability of failure, then you must carefully assess the wisdom of making the moves, based upon the state of your gear and the likely nature of the fall and your chances of making the moves. Being confident in taking falls is four fifths of ***k all use when your gear rips, and may skew your judgement in committing to the moves.
Of course, you may also have no say in falling off, when it all just goes wrong (which would be a fair description of my first fall - first HVS, off route on the crux of an E2 - it didn't go well. The second pitch was worse - no gear worth speaking of that would fit. Traumatic.)
There is always a high degree of uncertainty on trad routes - poor placements, gear that moves after you've moved past it, poor rock, the real possibility of hitting something on the way down and so on. Yes, you should trust your gear, but in my view only so far, right up to the point where you have to place all of your trust in it, having fallen off.
Your major learning point so far - your gear held. So, in extremis, you have proven that you can climb safely. Keep that in mind, and now work to make sure that you really master a skill that I always hope never to test.
In reply to joolskilly:
So should we all just stop climbing because of the risks?
Or should we offer advice to overcome the fear generated by taking some falls in a safe environment and concentrating on doing routes where the OP can lace the route with enough gear to build some redundancy in to the system, ie, cracks?
Surely nobody 'wants' to fall as that would be both dangerous to some degree and mean failure to climb the route cleanly.
> (In reply to muppetfilter) Agree, I wonder how many posters that claim fallings all part of the game or nothing to avoid have seen a partner fall and break his back?
So should we all just stop climbing because of the risks?
Or should we offer advice to overcome the fear generated by taking some falls in a safe environment and concentrating on doing routes where the OP can lace the route with enough gear to build some redundancy in to the system, ie, cracks?
Surely nobody 'wants' to fall as that would be both dangerous to some degree and mean failure to climb the route cleanly.
In reply to Ireddek:
Ive been leading for bout 1.5/2 years and am 15. Until this year I was toproping 5a but was petrified when leading v diffs and severes. This year ive worked my way up to leading my first HVS in Sep.
So my advice to you is to keep on doing those vdiff/severes (whatevers compfortable) and build up your confidence till you want to push your grade. When you do start to push it maybe top rope/second it first to build up your confidence instead of onsighting.
Whatever you do good luck getting back out on some routes
Ive been leading for bout 1.5/2 years and am 15. Until this year I was toproping 5a but was petrified when leading v diffs and severes. This year ive worked my way up to leading my first HVS in Sep.
So my advice to you is to keep on doing those vdiff/severes (whatevers compfortable) and build up your confidence till you want to push your grade. When you do start to push it maybe top rope/second it first to build up your confidence instead of onsighting.
Whatever you do good luck getting back out on some routes
In reply to Ireddek:
Didn't fall off a route but did tumble down the side of Tryfan at high speed with no end in sight. Ended up with a suspected fractured leg and shock (tho' we've had the medical wrangle on here before about actual shock versus blue-lips-and-shaking shock) and haven't been back to the mountains since. I think that all climbers/scramblers have an intellectual understanding of what might happen but until it actually does - or nearly does - that understanding doesn't provide a coping mechanism in advance. Just time, really, taking baby steps to getting back out there, whether that's a safe wander in the pastures beneath, or a lot of indoor top-roping. No shame in taking the time to sort out your head, your motivation and your boundaries. Good luck
Didn't fall off a route but did tumble down the side of Tryfan at high speed with no end in sight. Ended up with a suspected fractured leg and shock (tho' we've had the medical wrangle on here before about actual shock versus blue-lips-and-shaking shock) and haven't been back to the mountains since. I think that all climbers/scramblers have an intellectual understanding of what might happen but until it actually does - or nearly does - that understanding doesn't provide a coping mechanism in advance. Just time, really, taking baby steps to getting back out there, whether that's a safe wander in the pastures beneath, or a lot of indoor top-roping. No shame in taking the time to sort out your head, your motivation and your boundaries. Good luck
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