UKH

In this entry on CamptoCamp for the Matterhorn Hornli ridge

http://alpinisme.camptocamp.com/route105.html

the equipment requirements are listed as

"Casque indispensable, une corde double de trente mètre, crampon piolet."

What is 'une corde double' likely to mean here? A pair of half ropes, or a single half rope?

Thanks

Jim

In reply to Jimmy D: It sounds like one 30m half rope, but not done the route, so can't confirm that.

In reply to Jimmy D:

Most likely means a pair of half ropes.

Personally I'd go for 30m of single rope + 30m of thin line in case you have to make a rappel.

Corde double is normally double ropes, so two 30 metre strands of half rope is what it means I think, though you can go for one 60 metre strand of half rope if you don't have 30 metre ones and don't want to sacrifice a rope. Equally good for abseiling and leading but not as useful for moving together.

In reply to Misha:

That's right, it means a double rope 30m long, or two strands of 30m each for those who are picky on terms. This implies that the pitches won't be more than 30m and that the longest abseil required is 30m.

For the terminally picky, if your rope is 60m long it'll do, used doubled

It's just like in English really - a 30m double rope.

PS. As for the jokers with their single ropes and bits of twine, do it yourself if you must but stop presenting this to beginners as standard practice, you may get someone killed one day!

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Bruce

There is nothing dangerous about abseiling on a single rope and a length of 5.5 Dynema cord. The only disadvantage is that because dynema is static and the main rope stretches, you can get a bit of kinking in the rope. Quite frankly though this will be minimal on the 2 - 3 30m abseils you might need on the Hörnli ridge. This problem can be solved by using a length of 7mm ice-twin rope which is dynamic but a bit heavier.

It would be more dangerous for a beginner to try and climb the Hörnli ridge with 2 double ropes. Two ropes are much more difficult to manage on moderate ground where you have to move together a lot of the time. The Hörnli ridge is basically 2400m of sustained moderate ground with a couple of steeper pitches, a couple of abseils and a fair bit of fixed rope. Bad rope management on a route like that = very long tiring day = good chance of an accident. I suppose that is the British way!

Personally I'd go with 30m of single rope and a 'décrocheur', but I wouldn't advise anybody else to!

In reply to Misha:

Ahem. It means 30m is minimum rope length, not exact rope length. Chopping your rope on the basis of that route description would be, dare I say, idiotic.

I would imagine most people doing it would use their usual 50m halves, or may double over a 60 if they have it, safe in the knowledge they have enough rope.

In reply to nb:

What's wrong with using standard alpine rope technique?

If someone is incapable of using double ropes for climbing and abbing then they shouldn't be heading up there! As for f*cking about with single climbing rope and bits of easily tangled twin, which would in no way be suitable to replace the climbing rope if the latter got damaged... what on earth is the point? Saving a few grams of weight? Again if you are not up to carrying a kilo or so extra to have all the advantages of a normal set up then you should really be wondering if you have the stamina to be heading up a mountain like the Matterhorn.

What experienced climbers may decide on for high level climbing is another question, although I seriously doubt that a single climbing rope is likely to be a suitable solution, but for ordinary routes, keep it simple and keep it safe... at least until you no longer feel the need to ask such basic questions on a forum

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

"Standard alpine rope technique" = single rope on a moderate climb.

"Keep it simple and keep it safe" = single rope on a moderate climb.

On the Matterhorn you are likely to be climbing for 8 to 10 hours. For 10 minutes of those you may require double ropes for abseiling. It seems a bit of a shame to lumber yourself with double ropes for the rest of the climb as well.

But hey, everybody to their own! Enjoy the clmb Jim whatever rope you decide to use. And be warned, it can be a bit of a bunfight up there.

In reply to nb:

If it is technically easy you just take one of your double ropes, used doubled on a tricky bit or for abseiling... it just limits you to 25m abbs. This is standard practise... no bits of string or heavy cragging rope.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Le sage cherche la vérité. L'imbécile l'a déjà trouvé.

In reply to nb:

That's some pretty steep moral high ground you've put yourself on there. Looking at a nasty fall maybe.

In reply to nb:

Confucius he say; "What goes up must come down."

Seriously, I think this debate is another good demonstration that there are no (or at least few!) hard and fast rules in Alpine mountaineering, as with most things climbing related. Different people have different opinions and on serious / long routes it's best to stick with what you know and trust - though a bit of experimentation is always a good idea on less serious climbs.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Didn't mention which kind of ropes to use, did he?

In reply to Misha:

Absolutely. A great way to climb the Matterhorn is to take along your biggest crashpad, slap it down at the bottom of the steep bits, climb to the top and then haul it up after you with a piece of twine. Ditto for the way down but in reverse. No rope handling skills/partner required. The local guides are usually happy to give you a spot if you ask them nicely.

Good idea, though I'm not sure about the spotting. I've heard the local guides are not very nice, think they own the mountain and tend to barge in ahead and instead of everyone else. Unconfirmed by personal experience.