UKH

Hello all!

Looking for some advice on starting out with some touring/ski mountaineering.

I've been tempted out by a mate to Morzine in early January, and we plan to do a couple of days in the resorts and a couple of days of skimo/touring. I'm not entirely sure what this entails! What does a typical day look like, and what kind of terrain should I expect? I've had a wee look online at some stuff people do but its hard to gauge how hard stuff is and what's achievable.

I'm a pretty confident skier, I used to race SL and GS (and SG once, scariest thing I've ever done) when I was growing up and have skied "off-piste" in Scotland. I'm also fairly experienced winter mountaineering in Scotland, leading up to III/IV ish.

Is it the kind of thing where I can rock up, skin up a hill, and chuck myself down some 40 degree couloir (assuming decent snow conditions), or does one need to be a bit more cautious?

In terms of kit I've begged, borrowed and stolen a decent pair of touring skis, skins and boots (they're 10 years old but practically unused, and were cutting edge at the time), and have probe/shovel/transceiver etc. and an idea how to use them.

Would it be usual to take axes and crampons? I can squeeze my climbing crampons onto my boots, would that work? Are most routes accessible just by skiing/skinning or is there a lot of climbing involved too?

Also if there is anything glaring I'm not thinking about? Does anyone have any recommendations for routes?

here's been innumerable threads & a few articles about this over the years, see eg https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/skills/ski_mountaineering_-_the_white_a... (just the first I found, there are others).  "What does a typical day look like, and what kind of terrain should I expect?" is a bit like asking how long is a bit of string. Depending on who you are with & where a day out might be very cool, with an easy climb for a couple of hours followed by a pleasant ski down to a mega epic involving steep icy couloirs, severe avalanche risk, maybe even some walking. Being able to ski offpiste will be the most useful skill.

Have a look on skitour.fr for some ideas

When I started touring I was in a similarish position to you, and was lucky enough to go out with some experienced tourers.  I found picking up skining pretty quick, the hards bits where skiing and mountaineering aspects so if you can do those (and understand avalanche risk) I'd say just get stuck in! 

I now absolutely love touring, it's completely ruined downhill skiing for me!

There’s an upcoming webinar which may be of interest. Andy is a great guy.

https://www.snowsportscotland.org/calendar#calendar-69d82893-78a6-482b-90e2...

Sounds like you have all the technical skills. You can measure yourself against this: 

https://www.eagleskiclub.org.uk/club-tours-events/tour-grading

... of course it won't help directly but it gives you a clue about what folk are thinking and might give you the tools to ask the right questions. 

The one suggestion I'd make is to do a bit of self-reflection on your avalanche head. Skiers, particularly fitter higher standard skiers, have the potential to expose themselves to a great deal more avalanche risk in a day than mountaineers do. You're covering (should be covering ?) a lot more ground, you're traversing slopes with avalanche-starters on your feet rather than post-holing up the side of a single slope in a day, you're good enough to be relishing avalanche-prone angles rather than enjoying the low-angled walk or enjoying the too-steep-to-avalanche graded climb. Yes, those are generalisations not all of which are true all the time - but they're also my perspective having done both. I don't think piste or sidecountry skiing force you to think about too much of that - and of course, most avalanche disasters are reputed to happen when the risk is "middling" not when it's high, 'cos folk are off their guard. 

By no means intended to try to scare you off or patronise you, just, if it resonates that "maybe I should think about that and/or get some skills/watch my step" then great, and maybe you're thinking about crystal sizes and cross-loading and rutschblocks and know your stuff, great too. 

I almost always take a very light axe. For me personally, if I'm taking crampons (my front pointing ones for Grade 5+ go on my ski boots) it's because I've got a climbing adventure in mind, but I would never have them in the bag as a get-out-of-jail card, if it can't be done on skis/harscheisen, then I've misplanned pretty badly. If you're looking at 40deg couloirs, maybe you just about want them....

Y

many videos on the Eagle Ski Club youtube channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFsHdqkh1CkEuDzFeAPF9aQ ) & more information on the club's website at  https://www.eagleskiclub.org.uk/

Just to add to my earlier post, it's worth stating again as per the previous poster avalanche risk awareness is so important. I thought I knew about avalanches as I have a lot of winter mountaineering experience when I started touring, but in reality it's a very different set of risks that I really didn't appreciate, and as a result got caught out in a biggish avalanche (which my more experienced friends avoided). Dont do that.

As other's have said it hard to state what a day can be like as its such a varied sport. 

It's posable to skin up an easy angle slope (25-30 degrees) for a short trip of 500m hight gain, and then ski back down the same slope. This is suitable for most people that can get down a red run in resort, I take my mates kids out of tours like this. At the other end of the spectrum you can have 2000+M up, steep lines 45-50 degrees with no fall zone. As a fall has a high chance of injury such as E3-E4. This may also include techniques of alpinism such as climbing or abseiling. 

Add to the above avalanche conditions and snow condition, the difference between a soft pack and hard ice on steep ground is night and day. Often a lot of the steep lines are run in spring as the snow pack has had time to settle.

The best thing to do is ask your friend for examples of routes he does. If anything like me his Facebook or instagram should be full of photos of routes. As when people say ski mountaineering it means very different things to different people. This will give you more of an idea of what kind of routes he wants to ski. Plus if you need extra kit such as crampons etc

Also have look at the grading system and understand that, so when he suggests a route you understand what it likely to involve. 

Hopefully she/he is the kind of mate, to start study and build you up.

Thank you all the for excellent advice!

The big theme is avalanche awareness it would seem. I have some knowledge of Scottish avalanche risks management, but I probably need to do a bit of reading up on Alpine stuff, I know it's quite different over there.

Thank you all again

Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain by Bruce Trempler is the bible for this sort of thing - it's very readable. There is a condensed version too if, like me, you're not that into reading.

Remember, before transceivers were a thing nobody skiied anything steeper than 30 degrees until it had stopped snowing for 48 hours. That's a pretty good rule if you want to avoid getting avalanched.

Tom

Definitely a must read.

I would also get:

• Ski Touring, a practical manual Ed2. Bruce Goodlad.

If you want more then -

• The ski guide manual. Advanced techniques for the backcountry. R. Copolillo......

I think the key skills are planning, alternatives, group interactions, decision making and human factors.

But true for all high risk endeavours.

All really good advice here. If you've raced then your on piste technique will be better than most. If you've not done much off piste, Id spend the first 2 days skiing side country just to get into it. Whilst you skills are completely transferable and your good habits from racing will pay dividends, it will be an adjustment in terms of pace and more importantly, protocol. Its very temping to just go smashing down stuff because its all fluffy and fun, but like others have said there's new risks and it takes time to develop an awareness and to ski in an orderly fashion so that you are reducing the risk both you and your friends face. In skimo you're essential playing a team sport. Be aware of where the others are, where they've stopped, their pace etc. You'll love it... I'm betting you be Tring to buy those unused skis.