UKH

Hi,

Apologies for the lengthy post but looking for some helpful advice and guidance on getting into ski touring.

I have just turned 50 and have been skiing since I was a teenager starting off in Scotland and then European holidays and I was lucky enough to live in Canada for a couple of years and got a ton of skiing done. More recently its back to one European holiday a year. I have done a bit of racing in the past as well and actively seek out any off piste when away.

I have been finding in recent years that piste skiing is getting a little “samey” and I need a new challenge. Ski touring/mountaineering is hugely attractive. I have a vision of me doing some hut to hut stuff in the Alps instead of the and possibly even doing some Munros in Scotland.

In terms of kit, I don’t own any ski touring kit but would consider buying the gear but appreciate that there is a balance of lightweight gear to get up the hill balanced against robust gear to get down the mountain. I am quite a big guy at 6ft 4 and erm commensurate weight. I mention this as sense that this might rule out the lightest kit and so an all round ski and set up is what I might be after.

I believe I am quite a competent downhill skier but never really done any uphill stuff. Having never used skins I had thought of doing a course but with finite time and money I am keen to go at it at the correct level.

With the above in mind grateful on suggestions on what I should do. Book an the Haute Route, short course in the alps, something else?

I am also in a position now to buy some boots. I currently have Salomon downhill boots and they fit my feet well. Would it be prudent just to find some Salomon touring boots and order them online and then that spreads the cost?

Thanks for any suggestions and advice.

Malcy

look at the Eagle Ski Club ( https://www.eagleskiclub.org.uk/ ) for some ideas

When you say you are a competent skier, does that include off piste?

I would say to find an introductory course for a week or long weekend. As well as focusing on skills, it can be a good way to discuss different kit options. If you anticipate going touring with mates, the skills needed are going to need to be more complete than if you want to join guided groups. 

How fit are really? Fitness is the key, you've got to be able to keep on going.

You can hire the kit quite easily these days.

What's your winter mountaineering skill leave? Can you recognise an avalanche slope when you see one, or wouldn't have a clue? If you're the former you may not need much instruction, if you're the latter you really do have a lot to learn. 

How good an off piste skier are you really? The start of the Haute route might not be the best place to find out. 

Without knowing you or the answers to the above it's hard to advise.

Eagle ski club is a good suggestion.  

Hi Malcy,

I get asked this quite a lot as a write a free on line ski touring guidebook. 

It's a bit like getting in to climbing with a time vs money aspect. Unless you have a mate to show you, it probably advisable to have some lessons and coaching.

First off you would probably find if you just tried to book on something like the Haute route and they knew you had not done any touring before, they probably wouldn't let you book on. I would question those involved if they did. You would already be expect to have the basics for this kind of trip and be at a good level for the up and down.

In terms of courses, someone above linked to the Eagles, a very good ski touring club. It offer courses and a club/mentoring way of learning to ski tour so probably more time and less money option, but a great way to meet people and to get out touring quickly.

The next option is an open course. Many guides and instructors offer theses course, they are good for getting an intro to the sport, but you learn at the pace of the slower member of the group. I have known a few people who are have been very good skiers and just need the other bits. They ended up on course where the other members struggled with the skiing, so found it a little frustrating. The trick is to speak to the guide and lay out what you have done and what you want out of the course and try and get them to find the right level course for you.  

The last option is one to one with guide, the most expensive option but you get everything tailored to you and you get it at a pace to suit. 

As for kit, I would wait. till you have had a good and understand what the different options are and what will suit the style of ski touring you want to get in to.

Hope you find a good way to get in to touring and maybe see you in the hills

I did not read all the replies above (bad net, go figure).

But If you have skied a lot and raced, your groomed skiing should be good. But How much have you skied off-piste (non groomed) stuff?

It takes getting used to (especially, If you have bad technique and only weight the outside skis edge… since you’ve raced a bit and racing is all about good technique, I’n sure you’llbe fine). But still, technique wise skinning is piss easy (route selection and also avy-skills are different kinds of skills).

My mid 40s with small kids says you should start by getting familiar on skiing down on non groomed stuff… in your case, perhaps not a lot, but still.

So start by getting those fancy Solly freeride boots (the ones with Dynafit/tech inserts and AFAIK GripWalk soles). The fits Most modern alpine bindings, and also ski-touring ones… might be shift pro or something like that. Then go on a freeskiing (offpiste) Camp in the alps… perhaps one that contains also avy education (or take a separate course about avy info in Scotland and also read up on the matter). Oh, no need to buy skis (freetouring/freeride), simple rent for the duration of the camp. But unless your current skis are completely Shot, update tge bindings, so you can use your new fancy bolts.

Take another trip to the alps, preferably st a time when there is a ski fest ir something so that you have an option to test as many different skis as possible (those fancy freeride/freetour ones).

then the next spring, see If any of the skis you Liked are on sale and buy them… but with proper touring bindings (since you’re big, Solly shift or marker Duke PT… or perhaps Look P15/18 and Cast). And skins… now you’re ready for skitouring…

oh, I forgot… get fit… start road biking, CX or mtb biking… unless you’are already doing marathons or ultras… in skitouring you need to be able to go uphill for quite a few hours, so that kind of physique is needed… and it’s bit more straining than just hiking (hillwalking with about the same vert and duration might be close though).

when you have more experience, you can get lighter gear (If that is What you fancy… but from my expirency, really light gear sucks donkeys balls on the downhill… and I earn my turns… and I like my turns… so I use heavier gear on the uphill… but then I can fully enjoy the downhill.).

Hi, welcome (potentially) to the world of ski touring and ski mountaineering, it's a wonderful way to explore the mountains.

As others have said it's not clear from your post how confident an off piste skier you are or how much you know about judging avalanche technique/conditions - if not it would definitely make sense to start with some lessons or courses to gain confidence and technique around these as well as when/how to cope with icy snow, use ski crampons etc.

In terms of boots/gear - I would recommend at least trying before you buy with touring boots if not going to a proper bootfitter as you will be spending long days in these, your feet will move around in them much more than in downhill skis and they need to work well for both uphill and down.  For other kit it might be worth renting different setups to see how easy you find it to shift to lightweight gear.  Personally I err towards all mountain skis and tolerate the weight on the way up to enjoy (and compensate for my lack of brilliance on) the way down.  Concept Pro in Chamonix is one example of a rental shop with a great range of touring setups for hire.

Something else to think about - lots of resorts now seem to be setting up inbounds ski tour trails, which are a gentle way into building technique and fitness.  Combloux has a really nice one that is technically very easy (no kick turns) and has the potential to join up with a more 'backcountry' tour up the Petit Croise Baulet if you are going well, I have used that as an intro for lots of people who haven't toured before and that sort of thing works well as part of a more conventional ski holiday to test out how it feels and/or some rented gear.  

All said a guided trip is probably the fastest way into it as ecrinscollective has said but does come with caveats if you are part of a group that isn't moving at the same pace as you.

Finally, I don't know if you know Snowheads https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/ which is a great source for online ski advice.

Hope you find a way in that works for you, and enjoy!

A huge thanks to everyone's comments. They are tremendously helpful.

I have done an intro to winter mountaineering course with Jagged Globe where some avalanche education was given and in terms of fitness I do mountain bike once or twice a week and bag Munros whenever possible often 3-4 days back to back as I live down South. I also climbed Mera Peak last year with no problems last year, for what its worth..

In terms of off piste and without wishing to sound boastful I would say I can ski most slopes well off piste; nothing phases me too much. I have skied Delirium Dive in Canada, I regularly ski St Anton and access the backcountry whenever possible and boot pack to access powder whenever I can. Its really only the uphill part I haven't done although I have done X Country skiing in Norway when I was in the military, but a long time ago.

I will have a good think about it but a shorter, open course out of Chamonix with hired gear might be the best way to start I sense.

Thanks once again to all for taking the time to reply, much appreciated and cannot wait to get into it.

Malcy

also perhaps try here.

https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/

Some good people in amongst the usual  trolls and bores

If you can comfortably do 3-4 days on the trot of Munro-bagging, you will have absolutely no problem with the uphill aspect of ski-touring.   If anything, it's slightly easier than hillwalking as the ski down avoids the tiring pounding you get in a hillwalking descent.    You will also have the experience to pace yourself well and cope with a sustained ascent.     

I've often found when I've been in guided ski-touring trips that I'm one of the stronger skinners just from being a regular hill-walker (whereas half of the rest of the group have only trained in a gym).

I did the Haute Route in 2014ish with these guys:

https://www.alpine-guides.com/ski/insider-knowledge-ski/haute-route-advice/

I was more a climber than skier but had done a couple of weeks (lift-based off piste) in the previous years in Chamonix etc to get to that point. I was probably the worst skier on the trip but could (generally) keep up and found my legs after the first few days. If you're a solid skier then you are mostly there.....I think the uphill stuff is relatively easy to learn. There are some great day tours around Cham so get started with a short course plus crevasse/avalanche training. As mentioned it's a great way to see more of the mountains.

I’m sure you would find this course both enjoyable and helpful: 

https://www.offpiste.org.uk/courses-trips/chamonix-off-piste-touring-skills

Glenmore Lodge runs intro touring courses where all the kit is provided, so all you need is some Scottish snow. 
The Austrian Alpine Club also runs intro touring courses, in Austria: grants may be available if you have already been an AAC member for a couple of years. 
 

Good idea to get in touch with Eagle Ski Club.

With your skiing level and fitness you may be overthinking this. Your first step should be to get some light weight free ride touring boots. With modern boots bindings and skis there is a healthy overlap between off piste and touring gear. Whatever you do don’t buy boots on line! Fit can be even more important for touring/free ride boots than just downhill. Solutions for Feet in Bicester are not far from you and will be able to provide an excellent match to your needs and feet. For skis and bindings the Piste Office in Nottingham will be able to provide you with a good choice of skis with robust pin bindings and skins. You can then spend a little time by yourself (maybe with some Utube help) practicing kick turns and transitions etc. you should then be very well placed to join guided groups

Not much to add, but I would strongly recommend not buying ski touring boots online.

Backcountry UK in Otley are great.

I’d also recommend buying your boots from one of the shops in Chamonix, the day before your course starts, as you can get the fit tweaked as your discover minor problems throughout the week. 

110% join the Eagles ski club. 

I was in your position (a little younger @30) and it's exactly the route to take into it.

They have loads of trips each winter. Many of them guide led, some of them for complete newbies. It's the easiest and safest way of getting into it. Once you've got a week or 2 experience you could then join non guide led trips - you need to demonstrate to the leader via an application form you have the necessary experience so it's very well managed.

The club will give you access to guides, members looking for groups, knowledge, kit reselling, UK/international club meets, trip reports for ideas etc. It's brilliant for getting into the sport - I only wish I had more time for touring!

Any questions, pop me an email

Emailed you re. Eagle Ski Club intro courses