UKH

It's been 10 years since I've skied Chamonix in anger and just under 20 since I lived there, I've finally got some trips booked in for this winter. yay! 

Can anyone give me a quick overview of any radical entry/exit changes to obvious routes. It didn't really cross my mind beyond the usual shift from year to year but I read something by Ben (someone? a brit guide in the area I think) that he won't go down the pas d'chevre anyone as the exit colouir is so tricky/non existent. As rectaligne was one of my go to quick hits that's quite a thing. 

Kind of thing I'm trying to get a handle on if there's been any big changes that I don't want to find out once I'm committed :

- exit of rond/cosmiques

-midi plan routes

- Berrard valley (exit still okay?)

- pas d'chevre area

Also, and I know there's lots of info out there on this, but enver du plan / v blanche exit? Is it all reasonably skiable/obvious?

Thank you  

In reply to ClimberEd:

Okay, can anyone suggest where else I might ask about this info? (any good ski forums)?

Obviously I can go into the Maison des Guides once I am there but I'm trying to do some pre trip prep.  

In reply to ClimberEd:

The Ben you're asking about is Ben Tibbets.  https://www.bentibbettsguiding.com/

If you're on facebook there are various groups for skiing, off piste, ski-touring around Chamonix just do a search and ask some locals when you join the group.  I haven't done the pas d'chevre but that's mainly because of the chat of the exit - if you go up to Montenvers and look across you can see what has happened to the glacier.   People do post regularly on facebook when stuff is in.  There's also these updates - https://www.chamoniarde.com/en/mountain-topics/mountain-conditions#

As the season progresses, they include info on what is being skied and the general conditions.

Another good resource is fatmap - has all the freeride lines on it.  Seems to be up to date - as an example for Pas de Chevre is says: 

** Disclaimer - Unfortunately, the exit of the classic Pas de Chèvre has become increasingly dangerous in recent years. As climate change has caused an accelerating loss of ice in the Mer de Glace, the moraine walls surrounding the Pas de Chèvre exit couloir have become steeper and more lethal. The moraine here is now inherently unstable and prone to collapses of potentially large volumes of material. While it is still possible to find short windows in winter where cold temperatures and sufficient snow cover can allow skiers to pass through the moraine without excessive risk, these windows are increasingly fleeting and difficult to judge. It is therefore largely no longer advisable to use this exit.

An alternative option is to locate an abseil line leading to the Mer de Glace from just below the Flame de Pierre ridge. After skiing the Pas de Chèvre, skin up a short way until on top of the Dru moraine. From here ski down heading south east towards the bottom of the Flame de Pierre ridge and locate the summer trail. Walk down the summer trail (it's not usually possible to ski it), taking care to safely downclimb a couple small steps and using crampons if needed. After dropping around 200 metres elevation, there is the first anchor to skier’s left side off of the path. It may be difficult to locate at first and consists of two bolts on a rock slab. Gaining the anchor is exposed, so take care. From here, make a series of 3 abseils; 50 meters, 55 and finally 30. Two 60 meter ropes are needed to get down.**

In reply to spragglerocks:

Thank you very much - that's really useful info. I'm not active on FB so not aware of groups but sounds like that will be a good resource, and I will have a look at fatmaps as well to see what it has to say.

Cheers🍻

In reply to ClimberEd: A couple of things off the top of my head:

Not only is the exit from the Pas de Chèvre extremely dangerous and largely unjustifiable for what you get before, but since the Grands Montets cable car burned down, you have to flog uphill for an hour or more to get to the start.

It is now generally skied by the over active who then parachute down the exit. 

As for the exit from the Vallee Blanche, there is some good news. Due to the (very bad news) rapid glacial retreat of the Mer de Glace, a new gondola has been constructed. This opens late December. So instead of navigating the rotten rocky remains of the MdG and climbing the 4000 steps up to the Montenvers train, one can be swished up to the station from a mile further up the glacier.

The Berard valley exit remains safe and interminable though increasingly prone to sheets of ice at the end.

In reply to HammondR:

And thank you as well, exactly the sort of info I was looking for.  I'm definitely not part fo the overactive any longer! Cheers 🍻 

Glacial retreat in the alps fills me with absolute horror. 

In reply to ClimberEd:

Hi Ed,

There's been a lot of change over the past decade, much of which has already been mentioned, but in case useful:

- Rond / Cosmiques

Wouldn't say there have been any major changes, though the glacial traverse back round to the Plan / Para face does feel like it's more crevassed than it used to be. There have been cases of people taking falls into some rather large slots, particularly early season or in poor vis, so one to be a little wary of.

- Midi / Plan routes

The plan trees are still skiing as they always have, but sadly is a less reliable destination than it used to be due to the higher rain-snow limits we've had in recent years and as a consequence the higher snowline. When conditions are good, the skiing is as good as it always has been, but the lower part can often result in some battered ski bases and a bit of a walk.

In terms of skiing off the Midi, all itineraries have become increasingly crevassed. Be very wary in the early part of the season. Some itineraries that used to be quite simple (e.g. Petit Envers, Grand Envers) are increasingly technical and open as a result of glacial change. The Requin exit couloirs are not in condition as often as they used to be, again due to the changing climate, and the same for the usual lefthand exit out of the Grand Envers. It's therefore increasingly common to have to finish via the normal VB exit, which again is more crevassed than it used to be, but generally fine with a clear track going through it.

- Berrard valley

Still skiing well!

- Pas d'chevre

Rarely ever skied now due to the demise of the exit gully, which is nearly always a rubble strewn mess. Folk are still skiing this area, but generally its with a lightweight paraglider to fly out (!) or by skining back up. As others have mentioned, the top telepherique is no longer in operation due to a fire. Therefore to access this area, and the wider Argentiere basin, people are skining up to the Col des Rachasses, either from the top of Bochard (less vert) or Herse (more direct).

Hope the above is all useful. It perhaps paints a slightly negative picture of the state of the glaciers/conditions, but there's still amazing skiing to be had. For the most part it's more that some lines are less reliable and/or need more care than they did 20 years ago.

Feel free to send us a message if you want up-to-date conditions info when you head out. I'm based out of the valley and will be ski guiding all winter so should have a reasonable overview of things. We've had the snowiest start to the winter that I've ever experienced with three weeks of near continuous precipitation, so hopefully it will be a good one!

In reply to ClimberEd: I was very lucky to enjoy the pas d'chevre around 12 years ago in DECEMBER. Soft hero snow all the way down so no danger of an icy slip before the left turn, abbed the gulley and after the hike up the other side skied the James Bond track all the way to Chamonix. Poor conditions in recent years have put me off skiing except the occasional (mainly) piste holiday. Sea kayaking gives me much better return on cost and time commitment these days.

In reply to tjoliver:

good summary

the ladders down to the Toule glacier went a few years ago.

The col beugeant is much steeper than it was years ago.  Now virtually always needs a rope to go go down the first bit.  Similarly the col belvédère is much steeper and needs a 60m ab for most people.  The lower part of the col chardonnet (on the way up) is harder than it used to be.

Many of the lifts are wrongly marked on the IGN map - even the digital ones.  OSM tends to be good for lifts.

There are now several dedicated uphill skinning tracks around.

In reply to tjoliver:

Hiya, 

Great info, thank you, and thanks for taking the time to give me that level of detail. Hope you have a great winter guiding!

Best,

E.