UKH

We get on with our neighbours fine. Not close, but no issues.

They don't care about their garden and it's basically a forest of brambles.

They have also let their fence (their responsibility between our boundary) just fall apart. They can't access it to fix it due to all the brambles.

About a year ago I asked them if they had any plans to repair the fence. They said no, they want to sell in the near future and don't want to invest anything in it.

I left it at that thinking I'll ask the new neighbours as it's not worth falling out over. If they say no, I'll just fix it myself.

Anyway, their tree fell down this morning, onto our garden, and broke out garden furniture. Shame really as it was a beautiful large weeping willow so a bit of a loss.

Anyway, I know they won't take responsibility for it. It's not their nature.

So I potentially have a big job on my hands sorting this tree out, not to mention the cost of the furniture which was new this year.

I know the neighbours plan to sell, but it might not be for a few years.

Would you risk falling out over this, or do what you can to keep the peace?

From a cursory google, as the trunk if fully on their land, all damages are their responsibility.

I don't know about the legal obligations, but they're not paying you the same courtesy you seem to be showing them. You're not going to fall out with them, they've already fallen out with you! I'd maybe explain that you're going to arrange a tree surgeon or gardener to come and clear the mess, and you'll be sending them a bill for that and the new furniture, unless they want to instigate a similar arrangement themselves. Or you could contact your house insurance people and let them sort it out?

No legal knowledge, but sounds to me like sooner or later a solicitor’s letter is going to be needed. 
Good luck. Hope the tree has wrecked their fence completely as that might solve that problem. If they are up to doing stuff themselves it might be worth offering to help if you can. Mending fences, and all that - certainly helps with improving neighbourly relationships.

Your reaction to this is similar to mine. However we may not be right and you may be surprised if you talk to them calmly without getting riled. I know it's difficult (I'm quite prickly in these situations) but surely you need to at least try this approach first. 

If this doesn't work I would advise just taking it on the chin, it's just not worth it, especially as you have got on with them up to now. 

I'm having to just grin and bear it over my neighbours noisy dogs as I know squaring up to him is not going to have the required effect,  ie it's not going to suddenly quieten the dogs down and I certainly don't want to disclose a dispute with a neighbour should we move. 

Difficult to rise above it all I know.

Much harder to sell a house when there is an ongoing neighbour dispute. I would discuss calmly with them that they should be responsible for their tree that has fallen. If they ignore you, then I would proceed to clear it up and spend a few pounds on a solicitor to make them aware they are unlikely to be moving anywhere whilst this dispute remains.

Give them a heads up that you don’t feel you can manage this job so are going to claim through your house insurance for it all including the removal of the trunk.  Tell them you’re letting them know in case the insurers go to their house insurance to reclaim the money or them in case they want to sort it out and avoid everyone claiming.

Diplomacy, the art of letting someone have your way😀

Cheers

Toby

As someone else said if you escalate to a neighbour dispute they will have to declare that when selling, so it's very much in their interest to keep you sweet.

100% they should be paying for removal of their tree from your property and any damage it has caused. Sounds like you need to go round and have a firm but friendly chat with them, explaining your expectations. If they refuse to engage then yes given the costs involved in repairing the damage I would look to get a solicitor involved.

Are you sure about the liabilities? I was under the impression that if they had not been negligent with the tree then they would not be liable for damaged caused. (Though would be liable for the cost of removing the tree)

I'm not an expert but have always had lots of trees and neighbours to fall out with over them.

Personally I avoid falling out with my neighbours. However in your case you would be morally and legally right to raise the issues. Hopefully they will be helpful, especially with a pending sale. However they intend to move in the near future, so any unpleasantness will be of limited duration.

This is really useful.

It never occurred to me that my insurance might try to claim from them if they are liable. Interesting. At least I can say I'm concerned that that might be chased and want to help them avoid it.  Sounds like a winner.

My research suggests they are but know knows.

I wouldn't consider them negligent in this instance. I'm surprised it fell over.

Hopefully, although it's been a year and it's not on the market yet. At this rate I might be gone before they are.

You want rid of them asap. So a dispute may put potential purchasers off. Ask them for their insurance details, forward it to your insurer. Sit back and let the people who do this for a job, do their thing.

As I see it, if their car had crashed into yours, you'd swap details. The insurance would sort it, rather than you having to go round to theirs and make requests, or veiled threats about legal action. If they wont give details, politely tell them you'll ask your insurer to contact theirs anyway. Smile, and say that's what insurance is for. Don't get drawn into a discussion. If they offer to fix it, unless they give you cash, it might be a delaying tactic. Take lots of photos.

 By the same token if you sell your house you will have to declare to buyers! 

Just one thing to consider - they might not have house insurance.

Yes but you can say that the neighbours in question no longer live there. Not to mention that hopefully the threat of a neighbor dispute being on record when they are actively looking to sell will serve as a big kick up the arse.

Ive read through yours and all the others,heres what id do, falling out with neighbours can be realy awkward and sometimes can eat away at you.id cut the tree up into manageable sections,put the pieces back in his garden because it is his property,repair the fence,look at it as your doing yourself the favor and put it behind you hopefully theyl soon be gone.That way no fallout no solicitors no sleepless noghts.

Very good advice for an awful lot of issues!!

Cheers

Toby

Do you intend to sell up any time soon?  If so, it's probably not worth doing anything because it can make it hard to sell.

If you don't, given that they intend to, it might not be a huge problem if you did want to pursue it, though it would rely on the purchaser being more reasonable.

The only good advice so far. I'd add op could ask the neighbour (s) for help with moving the tree bits (they'll likely be useless by the sounds of it but token efforts, working together for a solution, etc. could go a long way) Also how bad is the damage to the furniture? Might be repairable also?

It's so depressing to me that people's first instinct is legal threats and solicitors  because a tree fell over.

As has been said already you probably won't have a claim against your neighbours' insurance.

https://www.theaa.com/home-insurance/advice/trees-and-home-insurance

That was my impression too.  Though if the garden was so full of brambles could it be argued that they potentially were negligent?

I'd suggest your approach very much depends on what type of people they are. Just because they're not bothered about their garden doesn't make them bad or generally irresponsible people. You've spoken to them before so only you can judge how best to approach them.

If they're generally reasonable people, a calm discussion is likely to bear more fruit than a confrontational one (although this can be difficult if going into it with a "this is going to be hassle" viewpoint). If they're belligerent arses, the insurance route may be the best one - you pay them for exactly that service. 

In the current market best take nothing for granted.

Spot on.  

If they're serious about selling up and moving it's very much in their interest to tidy up the garden a bit and fix the fence too.  It'll sell more easily and the difference in the price they'll get would most likely cover their investment and a little bit more besides.

So I dunno, perhaps they're not thinking particularly clearly.  Perhaps they're not doing the work because they're skint and can't afford to.  (In which case it might help that they can claim on their insurance to make good the damage caused by the tree.)  Or perhaps they're not quite as serious about selling up and moving on as they say.

And while they are at it they could casually mention the rat they saw coming out from the brambles

I wouldn't jump to conclusions about them being liable.  I think unless they have done something unreasonable (like ignoring a tree known to be at risk of falling), it might come under the "act of god" or whatever the modern term is category.

Rewilding is a big thing these days, a garden full of brambles could be more laudable than a manicured lawn with a few pretty flowerbeds and some sterile decking

To me the legal route is the last resort. Most people are reasonably amenable to finding a resolution when approached in an even-handed manner. A stroppy note or worse still a legal letter immediately gets the heckles up and just results in heels being dug in (to mix a few metaphors).

Odd that they're looking to sell but want to leave their garden looking like a sh*t tip.  Not sure how much a messy garden would put off a potential buyer, but you'd think it would be a factor

You could certainly argue that to be justification for having your own garden like that, but not so it adversely impacts neighbours, particularly if a covenant requires them to maintain the boundary fence.  (The wording of these varies, mine I think just requires me to maintain something that makes clear where the boundary is, some others may be more specific that there has to be a fence - ironically I actually maintain the opposite way than I am required to, as on the side I technically own there's the neighbour's hedge on the boundary line, whereas on the other side they don't care so I did it how I wanted it).

It is a very strange approach, no doubt the house is the same!  Neutral but tidy is the order of the day for selling - plain white or magnolia paint and a garden that's clearly a blank canvas, not a jungle.

A tree in my parent's garden fell during a storm into a neighbour's garden damaging the boundary fence between them.

My parents didn't notice, but the neighbours spotted the sixty foot birch tree embedded in their lawn and asked that it be removed. "Your tree. Your responsibility".

It was our tree that had fallen onto their property. It seemed reasonable that we should be responsible for making things right.

Not necessarily so, according to the internet and pointed out by other posters in this thread. Unless the tree falling was "reasonably foreseeable" it's just an "act of god" and the tree owner is not liable.

In most cases all the recipient of the gift of an unwanted tree can do is claim on their Buildings insurance. Good news neighbour. "Our tree. Your insurance".

We didn't do this, instead paying someone £200 to chainsaw the tree and throw it back into our garden. The neighbour repaired the fence.

We value our neighbours, at least for £200, however, had the tree fallen on something valuable - such as their house - we would have reached the end of our neighbour's value, and asked them to claim on their insurance.

Absolutely agree. Make every possible effort and then more to preserve good relations with neighbours. Such disputes have a way of spiralling out of control and totally ruining your day, year, and life

I'm finding so much contradiction on this subject.

This first link agrees with what you've said:

https://gcgrp.co.uk/blog/clearing-fallen-trees-branches-responsibility/#:~:....

"If my neighbours tree falls on my property, who is responsible for removal?

"As the landowner, you are responsible for the initial removal. However, you may be able to recover some of the costs from your neighbour if the tree fall is due to neglect."

Second link says the opposite:

https://thtreeservices.co.uk/fallen-trees-branches-whose-responsibility/#:~....

"Who should PAY to clear a fallen tree?"

"Where a tree from a neighbouring property has fallen onto your land, the owner of the tree will be responsible for the cost of clearing it"

ok, so I need a third site.

https://lofti.co/property-management/tenant-management/problem-with-neighbo...

"When a tree falls in the UK, the answer to the question of who is responsible for clearing it is often as simple as whoever owns the land that the tree fell on."

But then goes on to say:

"As a general rule, whoever owns the land that the tree was originally on is responsible for clearing the tree if it falls."

So the third link appears to agree with both the above. Let's try another one:

https://ansons.law/fallen-trees-responsibility/

"The answer to the question, ‘who is legally responsible for damage inflicted by a tree falling or debris from a damaged tree?’ is relatively simple.  It is the owner of the land on which a tree stands."

Does responsible mean they are responsible for clearing it? 

How confusing a subject.

ok, one more, last one.

https://www.jacksons-law.com/jacksons-blog/fallen-trees-on-neighbouring-lan...

"A fallen tree will still belong to the original owner of the tree, even if those trees have now fallen onto neighbouring land as highlighted in a case called Mills v Brooker (1919)."

"However, just because an Act of God has occurred, and trees have fallen does not mean that the legal owner of the trees avoid liability for costs of removing and repairing any damage caused."

"In addition, you could potentially argue that the trees which have fallen on your land constitute a private nuisance and as such, your neighbour as legal owner, should be liable to remove the nuisance caused by the presence of the trees."

It would seem they are somewhat responsible for removing their tree but not for any damage. Maybe. I think.

This is inline with what Brown said: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/off_belay/is_it_worth_falling_out_with_ne...

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick

You’ve probably spent more time posting about it on UKC than it would have taken to deal with it.

Sounds just like our neighbour's garden - overgrown>

The tree which fell on your land still belongs to your neighbours.  Legally you can't keep it and you can't force them to remove their property either.  The likely hood is they don't or won't care what you do with it.  If you really don't want the wood then you'll have to remind them that you'll be tossing back into their garden.

You could get someone in to clear it up and try to claim the money off your neighbours.  What will you do if they simply won't or can't pay?  Take them to court?  Solicitors will charge money to write and tell your neighbours this law and that law - but it'll only cost you money and they may well ignore the solicitor's letters 

As others have said, you'd have to prove that they knew the tree was likely to fall and to do that you'll need proof.  You will of course have to pay someone qualified to do this. 

Your insurance premium  may well go up.

I think the right way to deal with this is to talk to your neighbours politely as I'm sure you want to anyway, and if you can remind them that the tree is theirs and could they remove it.  But if they say to you something along the lines of, 'we aren't bothered about it you can keep the wood' etc., etc., you are back to the start.  Do you really want to face a court battle and costs??

The OP says they think it's willow

Not sure what they would want the wood for, unless they have a sideline in making cricket bats (it's generally an awful wood to burn).

Totally agree the right way to initially deal with this is a friendly chat with neighbours. 

My first thought was, at least I'll have plenty of firewood next winter.

I quickly found that it's terrible firewood. Heavy to manage, high moisture content so light when dried out, low heat and spits and smells.

I have no intention of going down this route. Like I mention in my opening thread, I have always avoided confrontation. But I do like to know where I stand legally just so I know if I'm being mugged or not.

I'm probably going to ask them if they have an ideas about what to do with their fallen tree. And offer to do them a favour by me dealing with the tree (hopefully my chainsaw is big enough) in exchange for them getting their fence repaired the full length. Something like this. Not 100% sure yet. At the very least I want some muscle power from them.

Haha, yes, I've got both bloody ends of it

Always appreciate your useful input.

However, I may not have made clear how big this thing is. It's big. It will take me a long time to clear it.

Sounds like the best idea really.

PS I've never burned willow.  I never realised it was such crap wood for burning. 

Just be aware that if you put it in his garden without his permission then that is classified as fly tipping .. so potentially an issue if relations are at rock bottom. Best thing to do is have a friendly chat and try and resolve amicably 

Not in this case. Same as overhanging branches... You are legally obliged to offer or return them.

And it isn't waste in this instance as per Environmental Protection Act 1990 s33

I got some once. It likes growing in swamps so I should have known it would suck up water. I ended up splitting it down to kindling to get it to dry. OK if you've got the patience.

I might actually get some grass growing in my garden. As pretty was the weeping willow was, nothing grew under it.

In my early days of wood burning stoving I used to burn a lot of damp wood. It just destroyed the cast iron baffle plate through rusty corrosion. 

You are correct in saying that you are obliged to offer to your neighbour, however if he doesn’t want them it’s your responsibility to dispose of them.simply chucking back onto your neighbours property can be treated as fly tipping.. at least that was the legal advice I got from a barrister pal when I had an issue with a dickhead neighbour.

Also increases your risk of chimney fires, puts out far more pollution and means you burn more to get the same heat output.

In conclusion - always burn well seasoned wood with a moisture content below 18%

It is poor fire wood but it still burns if dried. You just get though it quickly because it's so light (dry weight to dry weight heat output is fairly constant for different timbers). Given its free, it may worth it, in a wood burner.