UKH

That is an impressive adjustment. So you have two sides of a political debate. Far right who want it closed and low.And those who believe that the UK is no longer open to migration and we have closed the door.

Both sides must be confused.

That's a lot of people. At danger of tarnishing my left leaning reputation, it kinda feels like an unsustainable number. I hope they've all come to build houses and pay my pension.

The world's a dangerous place and we are by comparison a moderate and civilised society, you can't blame 'em. As you say though 745,000 is no trifling anomaly!

170,000 is my stab at a good target for net immigration.

It's my back of the fab packet calc of how many people we need a year to keep our population stable. Plus or minue 20% of the number would naturally be fine.

This doesn't mean our current population is optimum in any way, but any changes to population either puts stress on infrastructure, or stress on our economy depending on which way it changes. 

It also ignores people who may emigrate or be here on a temporary basis.

You'd need to see a breakdown. But I believe the majority are the foreign students that are the primary customers of our university industry, and workers coming to fulfil roles in in-demand sectors (health, social care etc).

All stats here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year...

Google tells me...

"In 2021-22 there were 679,970 international students studying in the UK. 120,140 of these were from the EU and 559,825 were non-EU"

You'd figure that would largely be a constant (with some growth) so not a major contributer to NET migration...  Unless they all left due to the pandemic, then came back en-masse in one year...

I don't think students will be in that 745,000. There are nearly that many international students on their own. 

Thats not the total number of migrants, it's the net increase in the last year.

That is a factor.

To quote the BBC summary : "The biggest drivers of immigration to the UK are students and health care workers"

The numbers aren't as shocking as neilh's headline figure once you drill down....

According to the 2021 ONS Census there were 373,000 students who were non UK born, non UK passport holders. (up from about 250k in 2018) 

Was the census taken during the summer holidays, have the number of students nearly doubled in a year, or does international student have a different definition? 

More impressed with the statistical variance. That is some adjustment. 

I assume the outflow in due course will adjust for international students. 

One very large problem with huge level of immigration is that the British public have not been asked if they support it, they did not vote for it.  It is something that is being foisted upon them. 

There's no escape from it, it's the down side of having a global language which enables you to go on holiday nearly every where, shout at people and be understood. It works both ways. 

Its comparable to births in the same time period.

Left or right you can recognise that there is some rate at which change breaks social cohesion, and that the higher the rate is the better the state has to manage the impact and perception of that change.  The problem comes when you have populists able to worsen the impact in pursuit of re election opportunities.

I hope some want to be doctors and dentists.

The major problem is that the British public keep voting for an objectively useless government. 

Without all these additional workers contributing, our GBP figures would be a disaster. The Tories have to keep raising immigration in order to keep up the pretence of economic competence.

Can I put in a request for roofers and joiners who do sash windows?

Is it? We don't vote on individual policies in this country. We vote for a representative, with an eye as to who forms a government, and the government and Parliament make decisions. We then hold them to account at the ballot box if we think they've done a bad job, supposedly.

The people of this country didn't ask or vote for this. They didn't ask or vote for a 2% NI reduction either, or for any one of a thousand things. At the next GE they should consider all these matters in casting their vote. 

Personally I am pro immigration. The worst influences in our society appear to be largely home grown at the very least. But I think its a bit hollow to suggest immigration is not democratic. We have immigration because of government policy, and we voted those governments in.

Instead, they have a useless Government which continues to bleat on about small boats, ignoring the fact that eliminating small boats arrivals would have no meaningful impact on overall figures, and ignoring the fact that significant sections of our economy require migrant workers. 

Essentially, the British public are being lied to. Again. 

We are being lied to by both sides including those who say Britain is to inward looking .The stats suggest that is far from the case  

At every election the party who voters perceive as promising the most rosy economic outlook over the next five years wins. That’s why there is a high level of immigration - because a party who promised very low immigration would also be promising higher inflation, lower growth, increased NHS waiting lists and so on. So yes, voters really did vote for this. And the particular type of immigration we have post-Brexit is absolutely the result of that vote. 

I got a new hip last week. Amongst the array of wonderful staff were a Polish consultant, two east European anaesthetists (I didn’t clock what variety, my mind was preoccupied) and a doctor called Fred from Ghana. How lucky are we that they are here.

Even in the multiethnic metropolis that is West Cumbria. Mrs J's last GP appointment was with a locum called, I kid you not, Willy Wang

100 % Agreed.  By the same token you have also to ask why they are here. The U.K. is also attractive to migrate to . Works both ways, thank goodness. 

I feel I should clarify I'm not anti migration at all, I see the English language as a benefit, but as others have said it's a two way street and what enables us to travel elsewhere also enables others to come here, although I do think deporting Farage to Australia should be permanent, not just a few weeks, we can even pay him £10. 

How much of this net increase is due to Brexit and fewer people going to live in Europe, thus staying in the U.K. ?  

Good point. 

This is why Tory governments have not reduced the immigration levels btw

Most immigration is perfectly legal and entirely necessary. If the Tories actually reduced immigration down to levels some of their MPs have suggested, including ministers, the NHS would be in truly dire straights, as would the universities, the care system etc

They all say "we'll get it down" and then a senior civil servant says well minister we must keep exceptions for anyone working in these important roles and the minister says "of course, and people fleeing diplomatic persecution in Hong Kong, and Ukrainians, and the families of interpreters in Afghanistan..." and of course then you get the numbers we have. It's all very reasonable and necessary and laudable except when the numbers are added up and then it's seen as a shocking result. Except it isn't.

Fewer UK citizens are leaving, but that is more than cancelled out by far fewer returning. This is a minor compared to the increase in EU citizens returning to Europe since Brexit. The increase in net immigration is driven by an increase in non EU citizens coming to the UK. 

 Just do not know From all I have heard  not as many have been returning as people think. Did you have any links to confirm it one way or the other. ?

Looking at the graph contained in this ONS report it looks like the number of EU citizens emmigrating from the UK increased form about 200k 2015 to about 300k 2019

ns.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2023

There has been a drop in the numbers leaving each year since then, but probably because there are fewer left.

Before the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, net migration of EU nationals was positive, so they were adding to the UK population. In the YE June 2023 net migration of EU nationals was negative 86,000, compared with negative 133,000 in YE June 2022. This means that more EU nationals left the UK in YE June 2023 than were arriving, but not as many as the previous year.

So are wenow more diverse than relying on the EU …… is that a good or bad thing ?

Just my personal experience, but I was comfortable recruiting MFL teachers from France/Spain when it felt like there was also the the opportunity for it to be reciprocated on a fairly equitable basis. Less comfortable recruiting maths teachers from Jamaica pas their shortage is more acute than ours, but we can afford to pay them more.