Rockfall at symonds yat - crag temporarily banned

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 JulioFranco 09 Aug 2023

Yesterday evening a large rockfall was reported to the land owner (Forestry England). The rather large boulders rolled down all the way to the hotel causing some damage.

Following a phone conversation to one of the Forestry England team, it has been decided that the entire crag is out of action while some inspections take place. Other suspicious boulders have been identified.

I will keep reporting as the work progresses and I will be updating the RAD too.

 PaulJepson 09 Aug 2023
In reply to JulioFranco:

Thanks Julio, do you know which sector it came from?

OP JulioFranco 09 Aug 2023
In reply to PaulJepson:

Hollow rock and apparently they have already found more suspicious rocks. Will be meeting them on site next week so will be able to give more updates

 JimR 09 Aug 2023
In reply to JulioFranco:

Any worthwhile bouldering been created?

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 Tony Buckley 09 Aug 2023
In reply to JulioFranco:

I've never trusted Snoozing Susie.  She was always dropping off.

T.

 Marti999 Global Crag Moderator 18 Aug 2023
In reply to JulioFranco:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0pFiw4ubDsP3tAxnRP5mhKNo9P...

Just got home and heard about this. Was climbing there a week or two before was it's normal looseness.

I think it's going to be a year of rock falls! 

 inglesp 23 Aug 2023

An update from Forestry England:

> On 8 August a major rockfall took place from the cliffs at Symonds Yat Rock. Since then, we have asked all climbers to avoid using the area. We have also had to close the public right of way leading down from Symonds Yat Rock to the River Wye (see map below).

> We immediately sought professional ground engineering and geotechnical advice from a private consultancy firm. The consultant inspected the rockfall site and further parts of Symonds Yat Rock. As a result of this advice, we will be keeping the climbing and public right of way closures in place for the foreseeable future. This is to reduce the risk as much as possible.

> An estimated 20 tonnes of rock fell from the cliff face, and had it not been for the rock capture fence, the damage below could have been significant. The rock capture fence is in place for incidents like this, but the size of the fall was large enough to severely damage the fence.

> At present, it appears that only a single area has been affected. We have been asked why we can’t reopen some of the climbing routes away from the location of the rock fall. The reason is that preliminary advice shows there may be further areas of concern across the entire rockface. At the moment, we don’t know whether another rockfall will happen somewhere else along the cliff face – and without a fence in place, we can't take this risk.

> Our next steps will be to carry out a full survey/assessment of the whole of the cliff face, and to get the fence repaired or replaced. We will also look at further rockface maintenance strategies.

> For the safety of climbers and to avoid any manmade disturbance to the rockface which may cause harm to people and properties below, we cannot allow climbing to take place anywhere in the area until the above has taken place.

> We will keep you updated as soon as we know more and when expected timescales become clearer. In the meantime, we thank you for your continued patience and cooperation.

In reply to inglesp:

I suspect one can give up any thoughts of climbing at Symonds Yat for a long time. Given that Forestry England cannot afford to undertake a full abseil inspection of the entire crag the inspections will be done from below and are therefore likely to be conservative.  It will be easier to keep it closed rather than manage the risk.

 PaulJepson 23 Aug 2023
In reply to HighChilternRidge:

If they discover how loose it really is then expect anchor bolts and netting bolted to the majority of the cliff face! 

In reply to PaulJepson:

No, they could not afford that either  

 bpmclimb 25 Aug 2023
In reply to JulioFranco:

> Other suspicious boulders have been identified.

Suspect boulders, probably 

2
 JdotP 27 Aug 2023
In reply to JulioFranco:

I would only go to Symonds Yat if I needed to sort my hair out so wanted to look at my reflection in the finely polished limestone. The forestry commission are doing the climbing community a massive service by forbidding climbing here in my view. People will just have to go to a venue with decent quality climbing instead 🙂

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 ClimbingNut 28 Aug 2023
In reply to JulioFranco:

I've had so many fantastic days climbing at Symonds, it's still one of my favourite crags. Yes there's a few poor quality routes, but they're easy to spot and avoid. There's also some absolute hidden gems and plenty of areas with good quality rock. The polish on a few of the not-so-well hidden gems is a testament to it's popularity. 

I hope the forestry commission don't see this ban as a long term solution. Symonds is a large extensive crag and it would be a great shame if access was restricted to the whole venue due to a non-climbing related incident, on a route no one really climbed in the first place. 

 spidermonkey09 28 Aug 2023
In reply to JulioFranco:

There is absolutely no way climbers should be applauding the closure of a crag and the denial of access on grounds of looseness. That would cover an enormous number of crags across the country. A short closure while they work out whats going on, fine, but its not reasonable to preclude access long term on the basis that rocks might fall down. 

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 Tony Buckley 28 Aug 2023
In reply to spidermonkey09:

> its not reasonable to preclude access long term on the basis that rocks might fall down. 

Like it or not, the landowners will think that it's perfectly reasonable from their point of view to deny access permanently on the basis of potential liability.

As always, there's a middle way to be found.

T.

 Luke90 28 Aug 2023
In reply to spidermonkey09:

Who's applauding? If you're referring to the likes, I'd imagine they're to express appreciation for the sharing of information rather than approval of the closure.

 Martin Hore 28 Aug 2023
In reply to JdotP:

> I would only go to Symonds Yat if I needed to sort my hair out so wanted to look at my reflection in the finely polished limestone.

Which routes have you been on??  Yes, Golden Fleece is badly polished, but still enjoyable IMO. Whit (best VS at the Yat) is scarcely polished at all. Harder routes that I've been able to succeed on are generally in good condition. I expect the routes regularly used for group sessions are a bit shiny, but's that not what I go to the Yat for.

As others have said, it would be extremely sad to lose the climbing Symonds Yat and I very much hope wiser counsels prevail.

Martin

1
 bpmclimb 28 Aug 2023
In reply to JdotP:

> I would only go to Symonds Yat if I needed to sort my hair out so wanted to look at my reflection in the finely polished limestone. The forestry commission are doing the climbing community a massive service by forbidding climbing here in my view. People will just have to go to a venue with decent quality climbing instead 🙂


According to your logbook you've only paid one visit to the crag, and done 4 routes. Fair enough if you had a negative experience on that day; but I would suggest that's an insufficient basis for your very confidently expressed and rather damning assessment of what is an extensive and varied crag.

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In reply to JulioFranco:

Is there any update on the situation?

 JimR 07 Sep 2023
In reply to JulioFranco:

i wonder if Forestry England are vastly over reacting to potential issues, e.g. in the Goyt Valley they have closed a footpath because a walkway over a small stream was deemed unsafe and removed. The stream is about 2 inches deep at most and a couple of feet wide with plenty of stepping stones. 

 toad 07 Sep 2023
In reply to JimR:

It's not the stream that's the issue in most cases as they're not liable for that, it's the structure. If they built it, it's their problem!

If they think the landscape (want of a better word) is a problem, especially if a professional has told them it is, then that's going to be more serious. And it isn't the climbers they are worried about, its the civilians underneath! (Cf RAAC)!

 spidermonkey09 07 Sep 2023
In reply to toad:

A structural surveyor/geologist would probably tell every owner of a crag in the country that it's unstable and requires making safe. To my mind this closure is already overlong and an Arthur's Seat style permanent closure may well be the result. 

 JimR 07 Sep 2023
In reply to toad:

The structure had been removed but the path remained closed. 

 Mark Kemball 07 Sep 2023
In reply to JulioFranco:

As Julio pointed out at last night’s BMC SW area meeting, the crag is on CROW land, so any access restriction at the moment is voluntary not compulsory. However the forestry commission can apply to close access for up to 28 days. 

 Sam Beaton 07 Sep 2023
In reply to Mark Kemball:

And on CROW Access Land Occupiers Liability is reduced so hopefully the FC can be persuaded that there is no need for a permanent ban

In reply to spidermonkey09:

> A structural surveyor/geologist would probably tell every owner of a crag in the country that it's unstable and requires making safe. To my mind this closure is already overlong and an Arthur's Seat style permanent closure may well be the result. 

You are incorrect, Avon is regularly inspected by engineering geologists who have never told the city council to close it. From time to time they may recommend works such as those on Bridge Road but not closure.  The modern approach is about proper risk assessment, which it appears not to being done by Forest England.

1
 spidermonkey09 08 Sep 2023
In reply to HighChilternRidge:

That's interesting, and encouraging. 

If the crag is on Crow land is there even a mechanism to close it permanently? 

 Sam Beaton 08 Sep 2023
In reply to spidermonkey09:

Yes there is, but I'm not aware of these powers being used to prevent long term access to crags, just for things like old mineshafts hidden in the heather


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