UKH

Do most people carry pitons and the like for winter climbing and at what point do they become useful?

Im assuming their use is probably dependent on the rock type you are climbing but is there a grade below which youre pretty unlikely to use them?

Reason i ask is if they are likely to stay on my rack unused at my level id rather keep the pennies in my bank or conversely if they could save my ass then sod the pennies.

Id consider myself doing well if i could be leading V this season to give you an idea of where i may be at.

In reply to J Whittaker:

I've only ever used them on new routes. Unless you're well off the beaten track I'd say save your pennies.

In reply to J Whittaker:

Consider some turf protection such as bulldogs (or less versatile old fashioned warthogs) instead if they are not already on your rack. You will use them in turf, ice, iced cracks, as hooks etc and if ass saving desperation measures are required you can hammer in as an emergency piton....

I've carried a couple of pegs (one very thin blade for seams and one V peg for vegetated/turf filled/iced cracks) in case of emergency need for decades and only ever placed a couple of times.

In reply to ScraggyGoat:

Would that be bulldogs plural? I have (or will have) a singular one. I ask for the strangest things for Christmas.

I can see it now, the family opening nice things and here is me looking proud as punch with this pecuilar spike.

In reply to J Whittaker:


Essential on my rack, always get used, various sizes and small thin blades. Much more use than screws which are fairly useless in Lakes unless a big chill. Pegs, bulldogs, warthogs, wires, loads of slings. That's about it.
DC

In reply to J Whittaker:

I haven't climbed in Scotland since I moved to France several years ago but always found thin knifeblades very useful where nothing else was possible. I also liked leepers which work well in icy cracks

In reply to Doug:

I've carried a couple of pitons in winter to Scotland and Europe.
Never needed them.
Good thing too as my ice tool doesn't have a hammer head apart from me!

I wouldn't be able to knock a piton in.

I also have a deadman for any collectors of esoteric and obsolete equipment. Are there any connoisseurs or savants out there?

In reply to J Whittaker:


YES!!


When various "failed belay" scenarios start running through your head.

In reply to J Whittaker:

My understanding is that pitons have been superseded these days by beaks:

https://andy-kirkpatrick.com/blog/view/winter_peg_question

I find my Tomahawk #2's extremely useful in winter at all grades on all rock types. Plus you can always stack them if the crack is wider. Might be worth getting one?

In reply to Swampi:

Seconded. Carried pegs for years, never placed one. Climbed with a guy who used beaks and bought three myself, I carry them a fair bit now and it's amazing how often they are useful.

In reply to J Whittaker:


My default is always to carry them. They are used occasionally, but normally in the kind of situation where you'd really regret not having them. As you say, it is more about the rock type than the grade, but in my experience, they are more likely to be needed on easier routes (say III to IV), and particularly gullies.

On popular routes, they are often in situ, but otherwise, it is wise to carry a small selection of knifeblades and angles to use as a last resort.

In reply to Swampi:

but aren't they just a type of peg ? they still need hammering much of the time, especially in icy cracks.

In reply to J Whittaker:

Would definitely get some pegs unless your partners already carry them. You won't necessarily used them a lot, but like terriers and tri-cams, you'll find on some routes there are parts where nothing else will do the job. And they are very useful at any grade.

In reply to Doug:
Yeah they're still a peg, but due to the geometry they only need a few gentle taps to sit in the most marginal of cracks. Plus they have a tail that you can hit on removal, which does minimal (if any) damage to the rock unlike other pegs.

The Polish have used them for decades and they call them Jedykas, which translates roughly as "the one". I can't recommend them enough...

* You can also thread a nut/sling through the eye in the head for more horizontal placements

In reply to Swampi:

Thing is a "Beak" is only good with the load along its axis, Ie vertical cracks. Where as a blade/lost arrow is used in horizontal (or near) breaks and a V pegs seen to work best in slanting cracks. I carry one or 2 of each depending on rock type and climb!

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

Oops! Forgot skyhook - always.
DC

In reply to J Whittaker:

When you go out climbing in the winter in Scotland, it is always best to come back alive. This may mean carrying pegs or beaks.

In reply to J Whittaker:

I don't tend to bother on Cairngorm granite or Beinn Eighe quartzite. Schist, sandstone and everything else I take a blade and a wee angle. Very rarely used but a real lifesaver on a few occasions and not much of a weight penalty.

In reply to DaveHK:

Aye, a wee angle and number 2 Tomahawk. For those places where nothing else will go.

In reply to Pay Attention:

Have carried pegs for emergencies without a hammer and used them on rare occasions by bashing with a stone or axe head. However removing them can be near impossible with no hammer.

In reply to oldie:

I would hazard a guess that if you *had* to improvise something to bash a peg in with - then you wouldn't have been too concerned about getting the peg out afterwards.

In reply to Pay Attention:


How do you welly your hexes in when you are gripped then?

In reply to J Whittaker:

A knife blade (get out of gaol free card), a thin angle and a bulldog. A beak of some description is on the list, but not acquired

In reply to J Whittaker:

I usually carry a couple of angles and blades. I haven't placed them a lot recently (most of my routes have been in 'gorms), but I have found them a real godsend on Creag Meagaidh. I find it far easier to place them in horizontal cracks than vertical (for which small wires or my bulldog are better).

I tend to need them least on Norries mixed - these routes tend to have good rock gear, so I tend to take just one angle and one blade.

M