Which pitch tactics for which routes!

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 Tricadam 26 Oct 2018

One of the things that I'm sure we all think about but rarely declare out loud is our tactics for getting to lead the pitches we want to lead (and, probably almost as often, getting out of the ones we don't!) Obviously I'm not asking anyone to reveal trade secrets with regard to routes they've not yet climbed, but any good examples re ones you've done? At the risk of causing no end of grief in cars driving north in March/April next year, I'd suggest that going second is the way to go for Orion Direct: P1 vs P2 - not much in it. P3 vs P4 - admittedly atmospheric snow field vs short but fun crux. P5 vs P6 - unmemorable III ice vs a great IV chimney/groove. P7 - avoid! - is the avalanche-prone upper snow field.

Of course, variety can work really well in a team with mixed abilities or different strengths/preferences.

Post edited at 13:38
8
 Alex Riley 26 Oct 2018
In reply to Tricadam:

Climb enough routes with a partner you like and the pitches you lead don't matter so much, at least that's what I find.

 humptydumpty 26 Oct 2018
In reply to Tricadam:

Obviously offer the first lead if you want to avoid an odd-numbered pitch later on.  On the other hand, if your partner tries this, then run the first two pitches together

 French Erick 26 Oct 2018
In reply to Tricadam:

With my main partner I usually go with whoever led last proper full length pitch the previous time does NOT lead first unless:

1) one or the other is very cold at the bottom and wants to go.

2) one absolutely wants to lead one pitch in particular (so work out how to start to ensure this).

3) one doesn't feel in a good day and admits to it straight away, thus will not lead the crux.

I don't recall feeling hard-done by at any point.

With my other partners with whom I may climb less often, we discuss it but the tacit courtesy rule is whoever suggested the route gets the crux.

I don't recall feeling hard-done by at any point. I like climbing, I like my partners...what's not to like?

Post edited at 17:13
 Misha 26 Oct 2018
In reply to Tricadam:

Just discuss it beforehand, depending on relative abilities and preferences. Sly tactics to lead (or not lead!) a particular pitch feel like underhand behaviour which you don't really want in a climbing partnership. On longer routes it doesn't matter anyway as you end up linking or splitting up pitches or block leading. 

 Captain Solo 27 Oct 2018
In reply to Tricadam:

Usually it pans out like this:

My partner: strenuous, well protected ledge shuffling.

Me: poorly protected run outs on bomber ice/ neve placements.

OP Tricadam 27 Oct 2018
In reply to Misha:

Ah, maybe it's only in 20th century climbing literature that such sly and underhand behaviour occurs! I'm more interested though in whether people can think of examples of routes where the odd pitches are distinctly/consistently different or "better"/"worse" than the even ones.

My own personal preference is to lead first as I find it settles the nerves and gets my head in the right place. Though always willing to be flexible. After the first pitch, I don't really mind what happens, so long as it doesn't involve me needing lots of hand strength/stamina, cos then it just ain't gonna work! Like Captain Solo, my preference would be for the sparsely protected climbable over the strenuous well protected (for me probably) unclimbable! Not averse to thin runouts - again, so long as they're not physically strenuous.

Due to my preference for leading first, I got the odd pitches on Orion initially. But had to ask my obliging partner to lead P5 for me as, having not really climbed all winter, my hands were cramping too much. They were still just as bad at the end of that pitch, but by that stage I'd got fed up of seconding, so led P6. What a great pitch that is! 

 profitofdoom 27 Oct 2018
In reply to Tricadam:

I haven't got round to The Boulder (E1 5a) on Cloggy yet but when/if I do I want to lead the main pitch - it looks like a second falling off would have a massive pendulum towards The Black Cleft (E2 5c)

 Euge 29 Oct 2018
In reply to Tricadam:

Me and my Mate have a rule... I climb the hard ice pitch and he climbs the hard mixed pitch

Euge

 thebigeasy 30 Oct 2018
In reply to Tricadam:

Play paper scissor stone at the base of the route. Winner gets to decide who goes first.

If I lose at this game, I then just try and link the pitches to get the good ones agian

 Max factor 30 Oct 2018
In reply to Tricadam:

Wolfman Jack on Lundy, E3 5C with a shortish 5b/5c offwidth crack leading to the magnificent long 5C pitch to the top. 

Wolfman Jack (E3 5c)

No underhand tactics involved, but I will admit I felt bad that my partner had to scrap up the offwidth with only one inadequately sized big-cam in order to tee up the top pitch for me. 

The guilt returned when it was my turn to do P1 a couple of years later for someone else, and I used this hard won knowledge to blag myself a couple of camalot 4s. 

 

Post edited at 13:15
 Fiona Reid 30 Oct 2018
In reply to Tricadam:

Usually we just alt lead based on whoever led the last pitch on the previous route. However, if one of us got all the good pitches on a route then we'll usually try to even it out on the next route so the other person gets the good pitches on that one. 

If the description includes bold or "height may be an advantage" then I may persuade my partner that should be his pitch as he's 9 inches taller than me and tends to a little bit less of a chicken.

Mostly, we try to use each others strengths as much as possible so on rock I'll often get technical or fingery pitches and he'll often take the steeper juggy ones. In winter we're fairly evenly matched so it normally doesn't matter.

 

In reply to Tricadam:

Mrs Swede Basher likes to climb until it looks like it might be hard then put in a belay and declare 'your lead'. I always go along with this and find it usual works quite well for marital harmony. 

 Fiona Reid 30 Oct 2018
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

> Mrs Swede Basher likes to climb until it looks like it might be hard then put in a belay and declare 'your lead'. I always go along with this and find it usual works quite well for marital harmony. 

I like her style

I did this to the other half when encountering the evil evil Y-Crack on South Ridge Direct in Arran. I basically took one look at the skin eating monster above me, lobbed a hex in overhead and scuttled back to the belay announcing I wasn't leading the rest of the pitch. 

 seanhendo123 11 Nov 2018
In reply to Fiona Reid:

rock paper scissors.....

 profitofdoom 11 Nov 2018
In reply to Tricadam:

> our tactics for getting to lead the pitches we want to lead (and, probably almost as often, getting out of the ones we don't!)

[1] Make sure the stance before the pitch you want to lead, or don't want to lead, is really tiny e.g. one small foothold or hanging - then it's too hard to switch over. If you DID want to lead the following pitch, make sure your partner leads the one up to the stance - if you DIDN'T want to lead the following pitch, make sure YOU lead the one up to the stance. Works a treat. I've used both tactics, on some great climbs

[2] Choose a partner who cannot lead the pitch you want to lead

[3] Combine 2 pitches together, the 2nd being the one you most wanted to lead, as someone said above. I've done this too (my second was not happy)

And 2 comedy ones, I haven't done these but am tempted:

[4] Drop one of your boots off the belay if you don't want to lead

[5] Plead a sudden migraine if you don't want to lead

I've just realized I'm sneaky, oops, apologies to my partners


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