Snowdon crib goch in the snow

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Hiya, I've climbed crib goch both up and down several times in the summer and a couple times in rain but have been wanting to try it in the snow for quite some time, I've used crampons once but never an ice axe or on any scramble just light climbing/hiking.

How difficult is it to get used to an ice axe and would it be doable to do crib goch without ice axe experience as I've seen a lot of different views on whether or not it's a dumb idea or whether it's a good first climb.

I like to consider myself a pretty good climber, I do a lot of Hiking and rock climbing and I can do crib goch a fair bit quicker than most others I've seen. So any advise at all would be amazing, thankyou!

17
 spenser 28 Nov 2022
In reply to SugarFreeOrigami:

Go and get the experience using an axe on walking terrain for a bit so you know how to carry it properly and can do self arrest without stabbing yourself with it, learn how avalanche hazards work, then go and do Crib Goch.

Winter in North Wales tends to be a bit transient so don't let yourself fall into the trap of doing it in poor conditions just because you are there.

2
 Dan Arkle 28 Nov 2022
In reply to SugarFreeOrigami:

Its a bad idea.

Its tricky walking on an uneven rocky ridge with crampons and an axe, and if you tripped the axe wouldn't help you, you'd die.

Learn elsewhere first. 

2
 OwenM 28 Nov 2022
In reply to SugarFreeOrigami:

My first winter route was Crib Goch it was exciting, I loved it.

As others have said probably not the best place to learn. 

1
 Stichtplate 28 Nov 2022
In reply to SugarFreeOrigami:

Do a winter skills course. When you’re new at something you don’t even know how much you don’t know and Crib Goch isn’t the best place for trial and error.

4
 bouldery bits 28 Nov 2022
In reply to SugarFreeOrigami:

Is Kinder in?

 Climber_Bill 28 Nov 2022
In reply to bouldery bits:

This chap will know;

youtube.com/watch?v=zGq-3TlswZs&

SD.

1
 TobyA 28 Nov 2022
In reply to SugarFreeOrigami:

A perfectly sensible question, but a weird username who registered today and hasn't filled in anything on their profile. I've climbed Grib Goch more times in winter than in summer so have some thoughts.

But from what's been happening over the last few years do you want to assure people you are not some weirdo sock-puppet account, who after this post - that you won't respond to - your next post won't be some standard anti-vax conspiracy theory BS?

If so then I'll tell you about Grib Goch in winter!

3
 Brass Nipples 28 Nov 2022
In reply to bouldery bits:

> Is Kinder in?

…the Lakes?

In reply to TobyA:

My apologies, probably should have filled in my profile first, I was searching info on crib goch in the winter and this site came up so asked on here. My username is just the same thing I've used for everything ever really. Never even came across this website before but have read a lot of the forums and will probably stick around for a bit as it seems a lot better than some of the climbing subreddits.  

From what others have said I'm probably going to do an easier route first, probably pyg track in the snow first as it's much safer while still having some light climbing at the end where I will be able to try out the gear a lot safer.

Post edited at 18:26
In reply to Dan Arkle:

I do live fairly close so it probably would be smart to try it elsewhere first, I'm thinking pyg track as it's still got some light climbing towards the end and a lot of walking to get used to the crampons a little more and no steep cliffs to fall off of. Then if it felt good then maybe try crib goch or another route later on.

 RJML 28 Nov 2022
In reply to SugarFreeOrigami:

Plus one for all the comments suggesting getting used to the axe and crampons on much gentler slopes first.

I’m new to winter hill walking myself (so feel free to take my advice with a pinch of salt haha!) but I have found the learning curve to be half the fun.

I took a course first, and on the few snowy periods we had after that at the start of this year, it was great to just venture out with sole purpose of practicing the various techniques learned.

I guess all in all I’ve found my days cutting about on a low angle slope practicing to be just as enjoyable as when I’ve managed to move into slightly more exposed terrain.

Enjoy!

Edit: Grammar

Post edited at 22:40
In reply to RJML:

Yeah I mean at the end of the day I think any climbing in the snow will be fun, even if it's a route that's very easy in the summer, covered in snow and using an ice axe and crampons will certainly make it more fun and interesting. I'm definitely gonna try a few simpler routes first and have a little fun with it.

 Philb1950 29 Nov 2022
In reply to SugarFreeOrigami:

If you’re asking and don’t know if you would be able to scramble up Crib Goch under winter conditions, you’re not experienced enough. Another accident waiting to happen

17
 tingle 29 Nov 2022
In reply to SugarFreeOrigami:

People on this site give new climbers a hard time because they see questions like this as silly. But its not a silly question you were just asking advice! 

https://pyb.co.uk/welsh-winter-courses/

courses seem expensive but moneys best spent on that than a tonne of shiny new gear that you think you will need.

Or just join a local climbing/mountaineering club, if you have genuine interest you will get similar advice for free.

Full on winter in "Parc Cenedlaethol Eryri" is pretty rare in my experience though.

1
 TobyA 29 Nov 2022
2
 wilkesley 30 Nov 2022
In reply to SugarFreeOrigami:

You need to be very careful even on the Pyg Track. Many years we saw an experienced climber who was well-equipped and was killed after losing his footing and falling several hundred feet. At the time the Pyg Track was basically a slope of neve

In reply to TobyA:

Thankyou for the reply, it is nuts how unprepared people are climbing Snowdon even in the summer, I saw a family attempting crib goch without backpacks or walking boots, holding just a small 500ml bottle of water and wearing trainers and a handbag and this was during the heatwave when it hit 26c when I was up there. I got through 2 and a half litres of water so have no clue how they managed. Trying it in the snow unprepared seems even more silly which is why I'm trying to get a little bit of knowledge first. 

Those pictures and other route look amazing, I'll definitely wait until it gets a little warmer before trying a new route but will definitely have to give it a go.  

Thanks again 

1
In reply to wilkesley:

Ooo that doesn't sound great maybe an even easier one then, llanberis path has very few places to fall from really so a couple small trips/slips aren't going to injure me

 ExiledScot 01 Dec 2022
In reply to SugarFreeOrigami:

> Thankyou for the reply, it is nuts how unprepared people are climbing Snowdon even in the summer..... holding just a small 500ml bottle of water and wearing trainers and a handbag and this was during the heatwave when it hit 26c when I was up there. 

If that's an experienced person they'd be taking zero risk. It's a low grade, people have raced over it and raced over harder terrain.

However your lack of summer experience and clearly winter mileage means you don't know this. Join a club, walk with friends, walk all the other hills by easy routes in winter first. You'll likely stumble once or twice in your crampons, but you'll live to tell the tale. There are old climbers and bold climbers, not so many old and bold. 

Post edited at 21:01
14
 Dave the Rave 01 Dec 2022
In reply to ExiledScot:

Hmmm. I still remember buying my first crampons and prancing around my bedroom in my boots and crampons. Where can I go to test them I thought? I know. Let’s go up Hellvellyn via Striding Edge.

I picked a claggy day with the ridge covered in snow( done it several times before mind, and it’s not as bad as Crib Goch) and off I went with my trusty Border Terrier and ice axe. I still remember the large stone that I used to fit the crampons on and it’s still there to this day. I managed just fine with a little bit of Langmuir tuition. A couple of near trips on the crampons it otherwise was ok.

Not the best route to try crampons for the first time though.

There are plenty of lucky climbers out there but …………

 beardy mike 01 Dec 2022
In reply to TobyA (and the OP):

This point is quite pertinent - the idea that the ridge will be hard and the descent easy is not necessarily going to be the case. A ridge line will clear of snow with a bit of sun, and in general people hacking along it will break the snow up, either further sublimating it or refreezing into steps and shaped crust which provides good purchase. A homogenous slope on the side of a cwm, where snow will fill tracks given a bit of wind and this then refreezing can provide a very treacherous slope indeed. It's important to be able to read what the terrain ahead looks like EARLY and to be able to take appropriate action (before it becomes more difficult to stand), for example putting crampons on, getting an axe out, kicking steps, using a pair of poles - all of which COULD be appropriate given the correct conditions. This is the bit you are not going to learn in a few days, even on a course, it's just pure experience. So further to going out and getting some training, I would suggest you find yourself a more experienced buddy who can guide you in that decision making process. It's not always easy!

Post edited at 23:17
 Mark Kemball 02 Dec 2022
In reply to SugarFreeOrigami:

Be careful of the Llanberis path / railway line in full winter conditions an slip on the upper section can led to a slide over Clogwyn Coch if it’s not rapidly bought under control. I believe there have been fatalities here. 

 ExiledScot 02 Dec 2022
In reply to Dave the Rave:

I think it's better we convince them to delay their winter dream by one year to gain experience, than encourage and make their first winter their last. I'm suggesting they head out do other routes, just learn to walk in them over varied terrain: snow, ice, rock etc.. 

Note on helvellyn, it's unusual to not have at least one or two novices fall off swirral every year. Only the fortunate can post here to say it worked out fine. 

Post edited at 06:01
 Brass Nipples 02 Dec 2022
In reply to SugarFreeOrigami:

Also worth taking (and wearing) your helmet on more technical winter terrain. What are often easy scrambles in summer can be much harder propositions in winter 

In reply to ExiledScot:

Yeah, after seeing what others have said I'm definitely gonna spent this winter on much much easier walks before maybe trying the easy routes up snowdon and then I will consider crib goch next year. 

 Johntherock 04 Dec 2022
In reply to SugarFreeOrigami:

Also, beware of high winds. Have done Crib Goch in all sorts of conditions, winter and summer, but one thing I will say is that if there are gales at height it's the last place you want to be. A sudden strong gust pitching you off-balance could be critical up there - believe me because I've experienced that and got away with it!

 wynaptomos 04 Dec 2022
In reply to SugarFreeOrigami:

I would focus a lot more on using an axe rather than crampons for walking. The conditions where you really need crampons in places like north Wales are, unfortunately becoming rarer and you are far more likely to require an axe to arrest a fall or slide. Having said that, if you do happen on such conditions on somewhere like Crib Goch, just always be prepared to change your plans and return in friendlier conditions.

4
 Duncan Bourne 04 Dec 2022
In reply to SugarFreeOrigami:

Tell me about it. One summer my wife and I climbed up to Crib Gogh from near Dinas Mot (not the face behind Dinas which is a really loose nightmare but a nearby ridge. I forget the name) and saw no one. Quite a few more on Crib Gogh and Snowdon miners track was absolutely rammed, like Boxing day sales in London. We descended via another ridge and saw no one.

My wife says she once saw someone trying to wheel a pram up Ben Nevis

 Sean Kelly 04 Dec 2022
In reply to SugarFreeOrigami:

Pick a day like this and you shouldn't have too many problems. Clear viz and no wind can make it feel quite warm.

https://imgcdn.ukc2.com/i/42793?fm=webp&time=1563810802&s=253ff6ed2...

I have on one occasion advised a party to turn back as it was very obvious that some of the party were struggling with crampons on the easy ground  from the 'finger post' up to Carnedd Ugain. So not really the place to learn basic skills. It's so easy for parties to get out of their depth, so to speak. Enjoy the trip when it happens.

Post edited at 13:01
 Lankyman 04 Dec 2022
In reply to Sean Kelly:

> Enjoy the trip when it happens.

Hopefully not while teetering along the crest of Crib Goch ...

 TobyA 04 Dec 2022
In reply to wynaptomos:

> I would focus a lot more on using an axe rather than crampons for walking. The conditions where you really need crampons in places like north Wales are, unfortunately becoming rarer and you are far more likely to require an axe to arrest a fall or slide.

As someone who has done most of their winter climbing in Wales or the Lakes in the last 8 years, this doesn't make any sense. In fact I think it is really bad advice.

If you are somewhere where ice axe breaking is conceivably possible - firm, often icy snow - you'll be in conditions where crampons will be necessary to stop you slipping in the first place. If you are wading through deep, fresh soft snow - yep, you can get a way without crampons, but if you slip, you will just end up lying in you-shaped hole in that deep, fresh, soft snow. Even if you could find a slope steep enough to actually start sliding down, it's basically impossible to get an ice axe to bite in soft snow when trying to brake anyway.

Secondly, Snowdon gets so much traffic, the popular routes when snowy are often hard packed by other people, and can become super slippy particularly in freezing weather after a slight thaw. Here crampons or microspikes are particularly useful, if you slip you will have crashed into rocks next to the path long before you get anywhere close to ice axe braking! And, as I said earlier, there are parts of the miner's track that can get water ice on them from the springs that flow over them. Again there, and ice axe doesn't help at all but crampons or micro spikes make crossing any ice easy.

1
 wynaptomos 04 Dec 2022
In reply to TobyA:

Not saying not to have crampons. Just that i have found it increasingly rare to need to use mine for walking. They tend to just stay in my sack. If I do come across a tricky patch of snow, then I would be much more likely to use my axe to cut steps but that’s probably very old school, I suppose.

 wbo2 04 Dec 2022
In reply to wilkesley:

> You need to be very careful even on the Pyg Track. Many years we saw an experienced climber who was well-equipped and was killed after losing his footing and falling several hundred feet. 

So much for skills and experience.?  Ban it in the winter

 T38 04 Dec 2022
In reply to SugarFreeOrigami:

We did did Tryfan (easy route), Y Garn and Snowdon Watkins/south ridge with crampons and ice axe, both good hill walkers) but novices with crampons/ice axe. Was good fun and all went well. 

My first time up Snowdon was in February (2009), going up the Pyg in snow with my teenage son. A fab day out, but we learned from that trip and promptly went to Bettws to look at axes etc. Trip 2 the following winter was better, more snow and much colder, but spikes got us up nicely and we saw very few people, just a handful well-kitted out folks. 

I've only done CG in summer (thick fog) which was both fun and a little terrifying at times, microspikes and axe might be best up there, but I'm still very much a novice in that department so my advice probably not the best.

 oldie 06 Dec 2022
In reply to SugarFreeOrigami:

Many years ago I carelessly slipped going up to Crib Goch after a snow route on Crib y Ddysgyl. Went several hundred feet. Lost axe and mitts. Unconscious, fractured neck vertebra, black eyes. Helmet holed.....without it things would have been really serious. At that time I probably wouldn't have been wearing it if I hadn't just used it on CyD. 


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