Scottish Winter Climbing Destinations/Advice

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 JohnLRoberts 20 Jul 2022

Hi, a bunch of us Yanks would like to experience your Scottish Winter climbing next year and would like some advice from you please.  We understand weather sets the tone and that we may end up taking our gear for walks in the rain. We don’t mind long approaches or long days. Though we’d like to be in the pub before closing each night. Gear? (We’re we come from, screws will get you up most climbs). But, I’m thinking nuts, hexes, pitons (is it ok to use and remove pitons?). I’m sure Ben Nevis will be recommended and we’ll likely go there. Aviemore? (Ski lift available?) Other destination?  Thank you in advance for any and all advice. John

In reply to JohnLRoberts:

When are you planning on visiting?

Early season is more often than not the time for mixed (snowy rock) with later in the season being better for ice routes. 

Weather and conditions always tends to run the show. Knowing where to go and when is half the battle. Get your hands on SMC Scottish Winter Climbs and Chasing the Ephemeral books for inspiration and research. Get to grips with our weather forecasts and avalanche forecasts (MetOffice, MWIS and SAIS) 

As for gear, that all depends on the route. For mixed, a regular trad rack of nuts, hexes, some cams if the cracks aren’t too icy works well. For turfy routes, maybe add some bulldogs and terriers. Pegs or pitons are fine to place if they are removed. 
 

for icy routes, a good selection of screws (mainly small to medium, our ice isn’t always so thick!). I often carry some nuts and hexes on certain ice routes, it’s common to climb ice and belay on rock or a combo of both. 

The Northern Corries in the Cairngorms (Corie an t-Sneachda and Coire an Lochain) offer excellent early season mixed routes with short walk ins. 

Glencoe has some amazing mixed routes, ridges and buttresses but often relys on frozen turf more than the Cairngorms. 

Ben Nevis offers harder early season mixed (for me at least) and a lifetime of everything else throughout the season. 

Hope some of that helps. 
 

Harrison 


 

Post edited at 22:52
 alasdair19 21 Jul 2022
In reply to JohnLRoberts:

Harrison gives good advice.

As your planning so far in advance, you should try and book into the CIC hut half way up the Ben. Historic spot and saves the legs. 

 DaveHK 21 Jul 2022
In reply to JohnLRoberts:

Would be useful to know the grades you are climbing to help make recommendations.

If you get the right conditions you should head for the Northwest Highlands. It's less reliable than the likes of Ben Nevis and the Cairngorms but its got the full package of amazing scenery and high quality climbing. The obvious venues are ice routes on Liathach or snowed up rock on Beinn Eighe.

 im off 21 Jul 2022
In reply to JohnLRoberts:

As said above 

A couple of pegs like black diamond peckers are probably most useful regarding pegs on mixed routes. Bulldog and terrier also gets you out of corners and turf routes. Other than that I don't take other pegs and nuts hex placements mostly. Friends, depending if cracks dry.

Alot of luck with the weather.

An onward flight to Norway?

 LakesWinter 21 Jul 2022
In reply to JohnLRoberts:

A trip based around mid Feb to mid March would be my pick if I was planning far in advance but its no guarentee of good conditions - it all depends on the year and the exact weather at the time.

 LakesWinter 21 Jul 2022
In reply to JohnLRoberts:

Also if you come on here a couple of days before you arrive I'm sure plenty of people will be able to give you good advice about what is in good condition and how things are looking.

In reply to JohnLRoberts:

If you come with an adventurous mindset you'll have a great time. 

If possible get hold of a copy of the book 'chasing the ephemeral' by Simon Richardson. 

For a visiting climber I would struggle to think of a better resource to help getting the best out of the fickle Scottish conditions. 

 mike123 21 Jul 2022
In reply to JohnLRoberts: as has been hinted at , the weather is so fickle it’s almost untrue . Like a lot of  on people on here. ( and probably you and your mates )  I’ve climbed all over the world from bouldering to big mountains and still think a nothing beats a long day out in Scotland with perfect weather and conditions . But thats the rub . When I went to Scotland a lot ( of over quiet a few years ) my strike rate was probably 1 : 10 . 1 good day , 2 ok ish days , 7 poor days . A poor day probably involving getting cold and wet , the wall , the swimming pool , the pool table and far too long in the pub . If you have plenty of free time ( and I used to have lots ) the investment in time is well worth it , if you don’t ? Probably not . The advent of cheap flights to Spain and after  all manner of sunny or Icey destinations changed how I and lots of climbers spent their money and time in winter . Almost guaranteed sun shine or perfect ice or yet another week spent in a crap pub drinking crap beer . To be fair there are some half decent pubs and beers in Scotland now but the fickle nature of the weather seems to get worse . 
my advice if you want to try something different ? One of the amazing euro bolt clipping venues or one of the almost guaranteed ice spots . 

13
In reply to mike123:

clipping euro bolts is a completely different sport though. you could argue there's no point going Himalayan climbing because most of the time the weather is too crap to summit. The exciting conditions are part of what makes Scottish winter such a big adventure. 

I make several trips up to Scotland each winter, usually 3 day weekends and usually planned weeks in advance so I take the weather I am dealt (though I will adjust where I go). honestly it can be frustrating at times watching a great climbing forecast deteriorate as the weekend draws closer. but by the time I am there I adjust my mindset and plans and still have a grand adventure. in-fact some of my most memorable days have been when the weather has not played ball at all!

so I'd put my hit rate out of 10 to be: 3 quality climbing hard days, 4 good days (e.g climbing low grade ridges, hillwalking but still having fun) and 3 days where I don't get in the high hills/ stick to low level stuff or the pub but that's usually because I'm knackered from the day before too. 

and I'm fairly happy with that ratio.

 mike123 21 Jul 2022
In reply to paul_the_northerner: That’s great if you have the time and I might well still do the same . If I had the time . But my pre booked , non negotiable , week of me time ? I still go to Scotland a fair bit , usually for the day as I can be in glencoe in about 3 hours 15 minutes from my house to the ski centre depending on traffic or lack of , but that gives me the luxury of not bothering with  very little notice . Would I fly from America  with a high risk of a weeks potential misery and suffering if I was time poor ? No . If I was time and money rich ? Definitely . 

 ScraggyGoat 21 Jul 2022
In reply to JohnLRoberts:

It has been suggested trying to get into the CIC hut under the Ben. While overseas clubs can apply, winter spaces are generally allocated one year in advance. So don’t be surprised if the answers no.

It would be a good plan to get accommodation preferably with drying facilities; boots and gloves will get soaked at some point. If arriving Jan / Feb think Aviemore (as mentioned above East is normally better early season), if Late Feb/March /April Fort William.  You could compromise and book somewhere Newtonmore/Kingussie to have the option to Travel either way.

Alternative would be Inverness; Cairngorms are a short drive, FW / Ben Nevis possible and this opens up the option of  the NW Highlands.

Kit wise more gloves than you would take normally, don’t forget your ski goggles, head torch and spare are essential, unless the forecast is very good forget bringing any down clothing, hard shell waterproof a must if you plan on getting out on wet days, windproof /soft shell can be nice option if better weather.  Pegs are generally carried but only used as last resort. As above bulldog / turf hook or two worth taking.
 

Avalanche wise ‘commonly’ (and this is a generalisation) it’s smaller wet slab rather than large powder, and getting knocked over and carried over an edge or into rocks rather than burial (unless in a terrain trap)  while been tenderised by concrete blocks of snow. Consequently think about small pockets and subtle aspect changes as much as larger scale slope releases. Temperature fluctuations are daily so risk normally changes daily (that can be good or bad). Basic rules apply if it’s snowing, there is significant wind redistribution or the start of a thaw risk will high somewhere.

Have Fun.

 DaveHK 21 Jul 2022
In reply to JohnLRoberts:

>.  We understand weather sets the tone and that we may end up taking our gear for walks in the rain.

Thinking about this, unless you can be super flexible, which is unlikely with the travel arrangements, you need to be genuinely prepared to get little or no winter climbing done*. If you're happy to come on that basis I'd think about what else you can do if it's crap. Are you mountain bikers? Scotland has some excellent mountain biking and lots of places do rental. I'd also bring rock shoes and you could bail to trad or bouldering venues either in Scotland or the North of England some of which are excellent. Failing that, there's always distillery tours!

*or it might be amazing.

 Nathan Adam 21 Jul 2022
In reply to JohnLRoberts:

Some good advice in here, a bit of waffling guff as well. 

If you're smart, you'll be able to climb 3-4 days out of 5 most weeks in an average Scottish winter season. Get Chasing the Ephemeral and study it as much as possible, the biggest thing I learned from it is that temperature is less important than wind direction and speed. Obviously below zero is a necessity, but keep an ey eon the level it's hovering at coupled with wind direction. Get used to the idea of climbing on cliffs that face the direction the wind is coming from and the discomfort that will bring, this often builds the hoar and rime you need for the cliff to be suitably white enough to fit the ethics. It'll also helps freeze any turf that is exposed and not bury the cliff (insulating turf) and making it time consuming to climb. Conversely, too much wind and it'll blow the cliffs clear.

Big Westerly and North Westerly cold fronts tend to give very good mixed conditions IMO. High crags such as Aonach Beag West Face in Glen Nevis, Stob Coire an Laoigh in the Grey Corries, No3 Gully Buttress/Creag Coire na Ciste on the Ben and Chruch Door Buttress in Glen Coe are good safe bets from mid December onwards, sometimes earlier. If you're looking for ice, reliably the big Ben routes are forming through freeze thaw cycles from mid Jan into February with a few drainage lines forming before that but usually these are quite low grade routes. The mixed routes on the Ben can also become heavily verglassed after a few freeze thaw cycles, this will make the routes easier but very difficult to protect without a lot of time consuming and tiring clearing. 

The walk ins aren't overly long, and the routes are rarely more than 200m but it all involves a bit of battling in sometimes poor weather with heavy racks and doing it over multiple days from the valley will wear you out, so it's worth incorporating rest days in to the schedule. Also, don't just confine yourself to the Ben and/or the Cairngorms, esp the Northern Corries. There's a lot of quality out there when the conditions line up, so keep an eye on the winter conditions page and the forums/Facebook groups and you'll get the rewards.

Enjoy!

7
OP JohnLRoberts 21 Jul 2022
In reply to JohnLRoberts:

You guys are fabulous! Thank you so much for the advice 
So: weather 1 (to maybe 3) chances in 10. 
Guides: Chasing the Ephemeral (I have some SMC guides).                    
Gear: Foul weather gear, gloves - lots, pegs, nuts, etc.
Attitude: Have a sense of adventure ( I think we’re gluttons for punishment, may help?). 
Timing: It’s chasing the ephemeral. I’m thinking the latter part of Feb into March to take advantage of longer days and better(?) conditions on The Ben  

Again, thank you all.  

 Graeme G 21 Jul 2022
In reply to mike123:

> a weeks potential misery 

No such thing in Scotland.

 Myr 21 Jul 2022
In reply to JohnLRoberts:

Solid list.

> So: weather 1 (to maybe 3) chances in 10. 

I'd say having climbable conditions 1 day in 10 is pretty pessimistic. To get a good idea of how often folk tend to get out in an average winter, have a browse through some posts from last winter on relevant Facebook groups, e.g. "Scottish Winter Climbing Conditions" and "Ground conditions in Scottish mountains".

> Attitude: Have a sense of adventure ( I think we’re gluttons for punishment, may help?). 

I'd say that is the most important factor for getting stuff done.

Also crucial are fitness and knowledge. It is hard to understate the importance of research. Sometimes people experience crap conditions because it's too warm everywhere. But at other times there are great conditions somewhere, but people experience crap conditions because they just went to the wrong place: maybe they'd read on social media that a route was in condition three days prior, but didn't pay attention to the weather/conditions reports over the intervening period, or they don't really understand how good conditions emerge from weather and cliff/route characteristics; meanwhile great conditions were available in a little-visited corrie nearby. Some people seem to experience crap conditions a lot more than others, and that's not just bad luck. 

Also, as mentioned upthread, it's so worthwhile researching non-winter-climbing activities that you're excited about, to fall back on if it's just too warm everywhere.

 dsiska 21 Jul 2022
In reply to JohnLRoberts:

Scottish winter stuff is great. If you can come for a month and "work remotely" or "not care about sitting inside reading" and flexibly climb when conditions are good then you'll have a good trip. I'd recommend mid / late Feb to mid / late March. Get an airbnb in Stirling - if you prefer a town - or around Newtonmore / Pitlochry if you want to be in the highlands and you can flexibly go where stuff is good anytime. 

I really won't waste time / money on Scotland if you have just one week. It can be warm, rainy and windy for pretty much any week of the winter season and if the turf isn't frozen, snow wet and unstable you'll struggle to get anything in even if you don't mind getting soaked.

3
 Phil1919 21 Jul 2022
In reply to JohnLRoberts:

You'd need to be extremely lucky to find any Scottish winter climbing on a booked trip what with the fickle conditions and climate change. 

23
 Michael Gordon 21 Jul 2022
In reply to Phil1919:

In fairness, there's usually a lot of climbing done on the International Meet despite the often fickle conditions and challenging weather, and that's just 1 week pre-booked. It helps that there's excellent advice available from very experienced folk, that and the fact that everyone is super keen to get out.

 James Gordon 21 Jul 2022
In reply to JohnLRoberts:

Niche point on pitons:

Because the cracks can get really icy they are sometimes essential. At any venue. I know people love bulldog/terriers/ice hooks but I think they’re the most commonly in situ gear left behind that I see! They get placed deep in cracks and can be impossible to remove. FWIW the thin Lost arrows (BD 6) cover same and are way easier to remove. If you get lucky and the turf is well frozen on routes where there’s lots of it then TBH turf pitons like “warthogs” are way better if you can find any (Needlesports in Keswick I think). Bulldogs are ok but not as good. Short screws for thin ice are better than bulldogs. 
If I’m doing hard mixed I carry at least a knifeblade, angle and thin lost arrow. 

 Phil1919 21 Jul 2022
In reply to Michael Gordon:

Time will tell.

 Phil1919 22 Jul 2022
In reply to Phil1919:

Ha. Climate change denial rife on here it seems with 9 people against. But then it is in the US as well  : )

15
 TobyA 22 Jul 2022
In reply to JohnLRoberts:

> Guides: Chasing the Ephemeral (I have some SMC guides).                    

It is superb book - you can sort of use it as a guide, but it only focuses on one route on a mountain within the certain chapters. You will want to try some of those routes after reading it, but you'll still want the 'normal' guidebook/s so you know the other options beyond the route that Simon writes about in Chasing...

A few years back I completely nicked Simon's idea from Chasing the Ephemeral and applied it to winter climbing in England and Wales https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/features/chasing_the_very_bloody_epheme...

Now I REALLY wouldn't recommend you coming from the States to try English and Welsh winter climbing, but because in my article I've plagiarized Simon's chapter titles, it gives you a clue as to what the article is like.

On Facebook/Instagram there are loads of particularly instructors and the odd mountain guide teaching winter skills in Scotland or guiding climbs who post almost daily through the winter. For those of us not in Scotland this is huge resource that makes planning where to climb and what can be climbed massively easier than when actually lived in Scotland and was able to climb most weekends - but all back in the almost pre-internet age.

 DaveHK 22 Jul 2022
In reply to Phil1919:

> Ha. Climate change denial rife on here it seems with 9 people against. But then it is in the US as well  : )

Disagreeing with your views on Scottish winter climbing conditions does not constitute climate change denial.

 rogerwebb 22 Jul 2022
In reply to DaveHK:

> Disagreeing with your views on Scottish winter climbing conditions does not constitute climate change denial.

Yes.

I find some views on this thread a little on the pessimistic side.

Unless the OP was very unlucky and coincided with a week long turbo thaw, and even then to completely wipe everything out it would probably have to cover the week before as well, I would be surprised if in any week between late November and March there was nothing that could be done.

It's a question of knowing where that something is. A question that is much easier to answer with modern weather forecasts, better guidebooks and more information about how to use the knowledge that you have.

As long as you aren't obsessed with grades or particular routes there's almost always something to do.

As well as Simon's book the new SMC  Scottish Winter Climbs West has a very concise and clear run down on venue and route choice with a summary of necessary skills.

I don't know when the rest of the series is coming out, perhaps someone on this thread might?...

( Part of me misses the old no information use your intuition days but that is a bit selfish as it takes a decade or more to get it mostly right)

 DaveHK 22 Jul 2022
In reply to rogerwebb:

> I don't know when the rest of the series is coming out, perhaps someone on this thread might?...

Not in time for the op's visit is all I'm willing to say! 😀 

 rogerwebb 22 Jul 2022
In reply to DaveHK:

If it is as good as Neil's it will be worth the wait. ( No pressure).

 rogerwebb 22 Jul 2022
In reply to JohnLRoberts:

At the risk of very slight self promotion I think that your compatriot nailed the game here,

https://kellycordes.com/2018/03/

 Phil1919 22 Jul 2022
In reply to DaveHK:

Ha. I suppose after a few days of record temperatures with fires breaking out across London for example, encouraging people or wanting to fly a quarter of the way around the world for the hope of some really fickle and specialist winter climbing isn't my idea of the way forward. 

12
 DaveHK 22 Jul 2022
In reply to Phil1919:

Love it or loathe it I think foreign travel for leisure and recreation is here to stay for a while at least.

 Phil1919 22 Jul 2022
In reply to DaveHK:

Yep. Interesting to see how it will all play out in the next few months/couple of years.

 Pina 22 Jul 2022
In reply to rogerwebb:

Very much in agreement with this.

I find the idea that Scottish winter is always going to be grim a bit of a unfamiliar concept. With a bit of research on forecasts (lots of good information available) and keeping up social media from local guides means there's usually an option there for a good day out albeit sometimes with a bit more traveling to get to the right place.

​​​​​​I'd have my hit rate at closer to 9 out of 10 but that's probably more due to being close enough to the hills to be flexible and equally not bothering and doing something better suited to the forecast if it really looks unlikely

​​​

Post edited at 17:17
 yodadave 22 Jul 2022
In reply to JohnLRoberts:

i dont think anyone has mentioned the following website:

https://www.winterclimbingforecasts.co.uk/

predictive software that helps you guess where to go.

I will say that I never climbed a scottish winter pitch that is comparable to any of the ice climbing I did in North America. So I think its fair to say that you'll certainly have a different experience.

 DaveHK 22 Jul 2022
In reply to yodadave:

> i dont think anyone has mentioned the following website:

Maybe because it doesn't work very well.

 timparkin 22 Jul 2022
In reply to Pina:

> Very much in agreement with this.

> I find the idea that Scottish winter is always going to be grim a bit of a unfamiliar concept. With a bit of research on forecasts (lots of good information available) and keeping up social media from local guides means there's usually an option there for a good day out albeit sometimes with a bit more traveling to get to the right place.

> ​​​​​​I'd have my hit rate at closer to 9 out of 10 but that's probably more due to being close enough to the hills to be flexible and equally not bothering and doing something better suited to the forecast if it really looks unlikely

I live in Ballachulish and am just getting into winter climbing and I would agree with your perceptions of social media. I follow a few guiding groups and it was rare that something wasn't getting done on the Ben or elsewhere. The only real days off were when it was stupidly avalanche prone or extremely stormy and those were fairly rare this last season. The climbing from late feb/march onwards seemed to be consistently 'in' for frozen stuff although every year is different obviously. 

 DaveHK 22 Jul 2022
In reply to timparkin:

> I live in Ballachulish and am just getting into winter climbing and I would agree with your perceptions of social media. I follow a few guiding groups and it was rare that something wasn't getting done on the Ben or elsewhere. 

TBH guides taking clients out isn't great yardstick for how often you can climb in a Scottish winter. Firstly, they have to go out to put bread on the table, secondly, a beginner client can get a lot out of a day on a grade 1 gully but it's not what most experienced winter climbers want and thirdly, conditions reports are free advertising for them so understandably they're going to post about it.

What their reports are good for though is helping build up a picture of conditions.

Post edited at 18:29
 Phil1919 23 Jul 2022
In reply to DaveHK:

My views on Scottish winter climbing are that they are more fickle than they used to be backed up by most of the posts on here. You're comment doesn't make sense.

6
 yodadave 23 Jul 2022
In reply to DaveHK:

interesting, I hadn't heard any complaints.

Do you find it too optimistic, pessimistic OR just unreliable?

 DaveHK 23 Jul 2022
In reply to yodadave:

It gets the easy calls right but of course you don't need it for the easy calls. When it comes to the harder calls I've found it to be frequently wrong in both directions and as wrong as it can be i.e. saying terrible when a route is in good nick and vice versa.

I'm surprised by how quickly some people have placed a lot of trust in something that is a black box of unknown processes with unknown (or unpublished) reliability. There was even a post last year from someone who had stood and looked at Glovers Chimney one day, assessed it as being in excellent nick but then went online to seek other opinions as the app had said it would be poor.

Post edited at 10:39
 DaveHK 23 Jul 2022
In reply to yodadave:

The number of conditions categories it offers is a bit of a red flag for me. I'm not sure I could sort routes into 5 categories of condition if I was standing below them never mind remotely. I don't see how that level of granularity can be achieved and this means it's offering precision rather than accuracy.

 DaveHK 23 Jul 2022
In reply to yodadave:

I just went back in and had a look at the app and only now discovered that subscribers can feed back on nick. I think this is a wee bit arse over tit. If it's a system that's genuinely capable of learning then surely the way to improve it is to gather as much feedback as possible? The best way to do that would be to make it free for a season and more obvious how to feedback so that it can learn and provide better forecasts. Basically, get it working properly before charging for it!

 timparkin 23 Jul 2022
In reply to DaveHK:

> TBH guides taking clients out isn't great yardstick for how often you can climb in a Scottish winter. Firstly, they have to go out to put bread on the table, secondly, a beginner client can get a lot out of a day on a grade 1 gully but it's not what most experienced winter climbers want and thirdly, conditions reports are free advertising for them so understandably they're going to post about it.

I would agree if all I saw was pictures of Broad Gully, Number Three, South Gully, Number Four etc on repeat but this certainly wasn't just guides dragging people up grade I gullies. The point is that it paints a picture completely at odds with the 1 in 10 success rate for days out. 

I took a quick look at a sample of what was climbed on the first week of March this year 

1 Observatory Buttress, Orion Direct, Royal Pardon with people enjoying a 'full' Aonach Beag North Face

2 Green Gully, Hadrians Wall Direct, Vanishing Gully, Point Five

3 Boomers Requiem, 

4 Aonach Beag still well in with Stand and Deliver V, Royal Pardon VI, King's Ransom VI,Camila V, Wipeout V and Blackout IV, SCNL (moonshadow - thin)

5 SC Gully, Boomerang, Twisting Gully

6 Lochnagar Polyphemus (thin), (even England got some Grade II stuff done!) Waterfall Gully

Just a sample but I think somebody would have a good week if they got those... I'm sure some people chose the "wrong" places and had a crap time but it was there to be enjoyed.

Another example, me and my wife booked two days with a guide this year and we got an amazing day up Garadh Gully where we went by teams all over Tower and Comb and heard from friends on North Buttress (BEM). The other day we did Golden Oldie and there were teams on Western Rib getting some ice low down and reports from a blustery but climbable North Face.. 

Looking back across most of the season, there were freeze thaw cycles in late Feb (20-22) but people still got climbs higher up. Feb (10-11) had a bit of a thaw but lots of mixed climbing going on. Feb 1th and 5th were thawing but building ice higher up. 

Late Jan was pretty amazing by all accounts. Just go and look on Scottish Winter Climbing Conditions and you'll get a decent picture of things and you can work out if it's guides bragging or 'real climbers'.




 

 DaveHK 23 Jul 2022
In reply to timparkin:

I'm definitely not disagreeing with you on 1 in 10 being bollocks. If that's someone's hit rate they're obviously doing something wrong! 

Something to bear in mind though is that the routes you mention are not in a very wide spread of areas. There were decent conditions in some places at some times last winter  but over all it wasn't  brilliant with long periods of thaw and some places like the NW rarely being in nick.

Post edited at 12:14
 timparkin 23 Jul 2022
In reply to DaveHK:

> I'm definitely not disagreeing with you on 1 in 10 being bollocks. If that's someone's hit rate they're obviously doing something wrong! 

> Something to bear in mind though is that the routes you mention are not in a very wide spread of areas. There were decent conditions in some places at some times last winter  but over all it wasn't  brilliant with long periods of thaw and some places like the NW rarely being in nick.

Isn't the North West generally more variable? Hence why so many guides work out of the Fort?

 earlsdonwhu 23 Jul 2022
In reply to JohnLRoberts:

Probably stating the obvious, but given the often bad and quickly changing weather, make sure your navigation skills are really good. 

 DaveHK 23 Jul 2022
In reply to timparkin:

> Isn't the North West generally more variable? Hence why so many guides work out of the Fort?

Less reliable certainly, mainly due to the generally lower altitude. There are several cliffs in the Cairngorms and Lochaber with bases around or above 1000m but little like that in the NW and the high crags in the NW are not always places that are suitable for beginners.

In a good winter though you would see more guided/winter skills groups operating in the NW for the simple reason that it's amazing.

Post edited at 21:58
In reply to JohnLRoberts:

Scottish Winter climbing is great but is also unreliable. Good conditions have a habit of landing at short notice on that Wednesday when you cannot get out of work or find a partner.

There is a load of opinion spouted above both positive and negative. All I would add is be flexible, can you reschedule your flights at short notice? Base yourself somewhere central, Roybridge for example to enable access to most areas.

Be prepared to sack it all off and fly to Norway, Italy or elsewhere if it all goes to ratshit while you are there. Scotland in the rain isn't the best of places to hang around.

2
 yodadave 24 Jul 2022
In reply to DaveHK:

thanks Dave, all very interesting. I had thought that they did at least one season before subscription kicked in but I may be remembering that wrong. And I certainly take your point that it should be a proven success before they ask people to cough up.

 Phil1919 24 Jul 2022
In reply to Presley Whippet:

What a load tosh I'm afraid.

5
 DaveHK 24 Jul 2022
In reply to yodadave:

> thanks Dave, all very interesting. I had thought that they did at least one season before subscription kicked in but I may be remembering that wrong. 

Maybe they did. And maybe it works better for the popular areas, assuming it's getting and applying the feedback. However, I mostly climb in the Northern Highlands and its proven to be wildly inaccurate there. I also wonder about the accuracy of some of the route info the app is working with. For example, after a short cold snap last year it was forecasting snowed up rock routes on Beinn Eighe to be in good nick and they were probably just about acceptable, but it was also forecasting Vishnu to be in which requires ice build up.

Post edited at 15:09
 TheGeneralist 24 Jul 2022
In reply to timparkin:

> Isn't the North West generally more variable? Hence why so many guides work out of the Fort?

Methinks I didn't read that properly before replying. Ignore me.

Post edited at 15:15
 DaveHK 24 Jul 2022
In reply to TheGeneralist:

> > Isn't the North West generally more variable? Hence why so many guides work out of the Fort?

> Methinks the two of you have a difference of opinion about what the North West actually is.

It ain't Manchester, that's for sure. 😀

 TheGeneralist 24 Jul 2022
In reply to DaveHK:

> It ain't Manchester, that's for sure. 😀

Damn right.


New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...