UKH

Hi all, we're looking to perhaps travel to Rjukan for a week at either the end of Feb/beginning of March to get on pure ice. We are OK in mixed Scot winter routes up to grade 4 but other than a couple of easy pitches of pure ice in the past, we've not done too much.  It might be there are equally great venues that could be cheaper, we'd love to hear about them.

So, we have some questions that this fine forum might be able to help with.

What airport would you generally land at?

Are there any guides we could hire for a couple of days on punter grades?

What areas would you recommend for short approaches and great ice?

What guidebook?

And any other info that might help. Many thanks as always.

Any Oslo airport is fine. I haven't been for a few years but we flew to Torp normally and hired a car there.

Yes, definitely, but I don't have specific advice here. Maybe someone else will.

Literally anywhere in Rjukan. All the approaches are tiny. Or perhaps you mean which other non-Rjukan areas would you recommend? Not sure. 

Rockfax Rjukan (out of print but you can get a digital version)

Stay at the Old School Hostel. Great place, cheap, handy sauna, etc. The owner, Jakob, will be able to sort you out with guides etc. I expect. 

We flew into Oslo.

The Rockfax Heavy Water guidebook was our bible whilst we were out there. 

We hired a couple of guides for our first couple of days out there, which we really benefited from.

All the walk-ins are really short in comparison to Scotland.

Make sure you check out the local Leisure Centre. I think it’s called Rjukanbadet. It’s got a great pool, slides, saunas, steam rooms, jacuzzis etc. Just what you need after a day on the ice! 

Thanks both of you for the replies above.

Did you hire the guide before you arrived or just wing it on arrival?

Can I query what you want a guide for? (I assume you mean a human rather than a book)

Obviously it's a free world  but I can't imagine anywhere better for a punter to climb loads of great stuff without a guide.

I went a while ago ( 20 years I guess) with 3 friends. None of us had ever climber harder than Scottish 2 and we had a great week.  3 of us managed to tick off a few Scotishish grade 4s ( ie WI not very much) and we did a load of toproping.  It's a great place to push your grade as you do your 15metres or whatever of  steep ice and then attach yourself to a bloody great pine tree at the top. Then ab down. Soooo stress free compared to Scotland.

We also did a few of the multi pitch routes as well.

Get a guide if you want one, but don't feel you need one.

Enjoy

Been a few times, but not recently.

Beginning of March is a good time to go, there is still plenty of ice around and the days are fairly long, it can still get really cold but the weather has generally been good when I went.

If you get a copy of Heavy Water, it will list all the major climbing areas, it's worth going to one of the areas with lots of climbs in a small area to get used to the ice, but as everyone else has said the walks are pretty non-existent.

Norway can be very expensive so it's worth picking up some duty free when you fly.

Now that makes interesting reading. I found with my winter game, it improved vastly after a 4 day course up at the glenmore a few years back. I don't want to develop bad habits so I'm thinking maybe 2 days with a guide might just help get those core basics for vertical ice in the right place. We've lead ice before so maybe we're over thinking it.

Thanks for the post.

We sorted the guides out beforehand. They were both Brits, living in Norway. 

They helped us with our ice climbing technique and general skills, such as constructing Abalakov threads. 
 

We all felt that hiring the guides was a good idea and that they helped us to get more out of our week there.

Either way, have a great trip!

Ah righto. That makes some sense indeed. I was thinking in the MTB style where a guide takes you great places and a coach teaches you to ride with better technique ( generally)

I'm guessing with ice climbing the guide teaches you more, in which case sounds like a great idea.

Just another question for those who have been. Would hiring a car be recommended or is it a bit like a ski resort where you walk up the hill a mile or so and get on it? Not sure what the transport links are like from the airport to the area. Thanks.

While getting to Rjukan with public transport is possible, it’s a major PITA. And certainly limits your options to climb whilst there (unless you like to turn a 15min drive into two hour additional approach slog.

se yeah, rent a car. And being norway, they’ll come with stellar winter tires.

Just watch out for the price...our car hire was phenomenally expensive, then they added the VAT on top. Ouch.

Thanks again for the info on transport. This trip is beginning to look like an expensive adventure.

You probably already know this, but consider having a dedicated pair of ice picks. Most of the ones from the big brands are not well set up for ice to start with; they're too thick, not sharp enough on top and have teeth too far forward. Think about removing or partially removing the first couple of teeth, removing a fair bit of the metal from the first inch and a half, and sharpening the top of the pick. If you buy a pair of nice (dedicated ice) aftermarket picks, from kuznia or similar, then don't bother. On aerated Scottish ice it matters less, but once you're climbing water ice at -7 or below it starts to make a big difference in how easy it is to get good sticks. 

Having a couple of screamers is a good idea on ice climbs. I use one on the high piece of each belay on multi-pitch (through which the leader then clips to avoid a factor 2), and on any less than perfect placement. 

Take an hook for making A-threads/V-threads, whatever you prefer. Take some cord, leave one end of it unsealed (easier to 'catch' the fluffy end than the heat sealed end). 

Take a file, so that if you do hit rock, you can sort the ding.

Second the Old School Hostel, stayed there once and the owner was very friendly. 

There's also the new OAC one:

https://cordee.co.uk/Rjukan%3A-Selected-Ice-Climbs-det-0-0-0-16813.html?sea...

I did clock that book. Second hand paper copies of the Rockfax are going for 50 quid, surprised they stopped printing it if they are fetching that kind of money. As much as I like the idea of the ap, the cold temps kill phone batteries so I prefer paperback for the cold or laminates. That book would probably be a buy.

I have had 2 trips to Rjukan. Neither of which has worked out overly expensive. Noggy prices are high so you cook, eat and drink in. The sum total for the trip is little different to any other where you might eat and drink out more. 

There's someone flogging a copy for £30 on the items for sale page

I am fairly sure you can't still buy screamers.  Current thinking is stretchy ropes (beware falling seconds) and standard quick draws

Yates Ice-Scream - Needle Sports Ltd

Thanks for the help there. I've seen screamers on VF lanyards but not heard of them in winter use.  I get the idea so perhaps this might be a worthy investment.

On the picks, I have found that pulling them out of ice to be a bit of a task if they over bite, I'll take a good look at that option too.

The v threads we've done before so have that covered.

Thanks again everybody, all really good stuff.

You might want to rethink that practice.

On ice, but also for non stellar trad anchors. 
https://www.instagram.com/p/CMgB34BjBT-/?utm_medium=copy_link

That seems to be a problem of with some fancy iPhones but I've never had an issue with basic Nokias back in the day, or with various Android smartphones I've used over the last decade or so. 

I'm still on that battered up Samsung with buttons on it. The only feature on it is talking.

So I've been a few times and going again next year. Tips I could give you:

1. Yes get a car. Depending on what you fancy doing not much is an easy walk. Be careful with choice though. Most cars would be fine, but be careful where you park. The road to the Vermork Bridge is reasonably steep so if it's icy you might struggle to get up.

2. Gear. Mostly just ice screws, but a few routes have places to stick trad gear. Get good at abalakovs as you might end up using them lots. There's shops in town to replace any kit, but it's expensive.

3. Areas. Lots of good areas with walkings from 2mins to longer. Krokan and Ozzimosis are good areas with routes at WI2/3 (Scottish III/IV). You'll quickly get competent on ice. Krokan has a lot of routes at different grades, and it's good to go back to, with some mixed routes. Lots of trees, tat and bolts at the top of some routes, so great for climbing an easy route, then rigging a bottom rope. Upper Gorge is a great area, with lots of nice multi pitch routes. Use the Oxford book, as you can actually buy it!

4. Without knowing your competency difficult to say whether worth hiring a guide. There are some there, but I saw a bit of dodgy practice. Things such as threading the rope through tat at the top of a route, and lowering on that. Why not use a maillon or ab off? That's one case though.

5. Route recommendations. Ozzimossis (WI4) is a good one to get you through the barrier. Has bolt at the top so you can bottom rope it if you need to build up confidence leading WI4. Susses Veil (WI2) at the plant is good as you can do it in 2 pitches, make it easy/hard and practice multi-pitch abbing using abalakovs. Fabriskfossen is another great route, lots of pitches, good choice of finishes at WI3 or 4, burns the calves though . If you fancy it Rjukanfossen (WI4) is one of the highlights. Great multi-pitch route, and has such an atmosphere when you see it. Bit of a mixed section in the middle for a couple of moves.

6. Alternates. If conditions in Rjukan look rubbish then try Hemsedal or Lillehammer. Lots of good info on this page http://isklatring.no/.

If you need any more detailed info feel free to DM me and I can talk you through it a bit more. It's a great place, and I can't wait to head back out.

C

Thanks very much for that, there's a lot of fantastic info on there. We've got digital Rockfax access so we'll be doing some homework on the routes you've recommended but on the ice we'll be getting our hands on the Oxford book.

Good to know about guides which is why we were asking for recommendations as I've also seen some dangerous practice in places I've gone in the past.

One thing I'm not overly sure of is getting back down multi pitch routes on abseil. If the escape is without trees, tat or bolts and we need to ab off, I was wondering what the general method of descent was on ice. I was watching a vid on using abalakov holes and threading the rope through to drop down. That goes against everything my brain tells me is safe. I'd be curious to pick someones brains on that as I can't imaging trusting my rope through one of those without some kind of back up.

Interesting! 

For anyone else who is interested, this is what I found when I googled this technique. 

https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/belaying-the-leader-with-a-fixed-point-bel...

I think I'll need to mess about with slings, ropes and metalwork to 'get' what they are on about r.e. redirecting the brake strand (when using a tube device) until the leader has placed protection. 

I didn't trust ice-threads, much, until...

Try making an ice thread from the ground, in a chunk of ice. Use your 22cm ice screw, make it good and big. Ideally not in a chunk of ice that's part of a route! Thread it, tie it off. Now, clip a climbing rope to the cord, tie a few knots in the climbing rope, clip your harnesses into the rope and see how much weight you can hang off that thread. Start with one person, then two, then three...I've had four or five pulling as hard as they could, with no result other than a tiny amount of ice 'rounding off' where the cord entered/exited the ice, due to the sideways (inward) force exerted by the cord.

Now, take an axe and start removing ice from the thread. Get one or two people to yard as hard as they can, putting more than bodyweight on the rope. Keep chopping away more and more ice until your ice thread breaks. I was astonished by how much weight even a fairly thin thread would hold (in good ice, that is...)

I've not threaded the rope directly through an ice thread. I understand that there's an increased risk of it getting stuck, though, especially if it's 'wet' ice. 

There's a vid up somewhere of a guide and about 3 students doing exactly that. They are petty much doing tug of war with the thread as the guide hacks the ice away. The point of failure was really surprising. Thanks for the post.

This is another reason we'd like to hire some brains for a couple of days, there are various things like that and also questions about etiquet I'd like to get clear. Another question would be what the local etiquet is if somebody is well established on a route, would a second pair begin considering falling ice?

You will most likely find any multi pitch abseils already equipped. You may need to dig these out of the ice.

If you are unsure about building your own, practice at the base of the crag.

There is a speedy way to build anchors on the way up but it takes practice and confidence. 

You can thread the rope through Abalakovs if the ice is dry. If the ice is wet then its best to use cord. Remember to back up your threads with a screw and send your fattest friend first. Last man retrieves the screw. It has become de rigueur in the last few years to do naked threads, as threading tat on ice is environmentally unsound and with some consideration for the ice condition largely unnecessary.

I would be extremely careful about using pre-existing abseils on ice routes. For this I am meaning ice-threads, especially when a cord has been inserted.  Unfortunately, fatal accidents have occurred when climbers have found and old cord protruding from the ice, assumed it was okay and then found the bit they are abseiling from was actually just a loose end of cord frozen to the ice.  How many times this has happened I don’t know, but enough that people talk about it.

Rjukan is a very popular place to ice climb with many routes being ascended and descended in a single day. Its not uncommon to see multiple parties climbing the same route. With such a high volume of climbers it quite easy to assume that someone else is checking the fixed gear, but in reality no, its you. 

It's not an iPhone thing, it's a people not closing unused apps, dimming the screen and keeping the phone warm thing

Ok, although both my main climbing partner and my "other" partner - the missus! - have both reported this over many years and various different iPhone iterations. I've been using Motorola Motos (I'm on my third now I think) and have had no battery issues with either UK winter climbing or ski mountaineering in Norway with them. Whatever my first Android phone was when I still lived in Finland also seemed pretty unperturbed by even deep cold. 

In addition to Gareth’s post, you might find this video from Petzl useful:

youtube.com/watch?v=36dOEOFZW1k&

This is exactly what I do with novices. Just do lots of practice at ground level. Krokan is good for this. I tend to use tat as it saves the pain of climbing back up to recover a stuck rope. Never use someone else’s abalakov, unless it’s just been made and you trust that person. It doesn’t take long to build one, and your safety is important. I’ve heard about people threading an in situ piece of tat only for it to pull out of the ice, as it was a loose bit of cord that got frozen. And finally always back it up with a screw before first person goes. With some of the routes you might find that there’s trees you can use for the way down. 

Great stuff, it seems this back up screw for the first descender  is the safe way to test the anchor first and then I guess it's the lighter second descender that may be taking on some minimal risk.

Thanks for the other advice on existing threads, we'll be sure to avoid those. Is it good practice to remove old tat found frozen in the ice or just ignore it and move on? Thanks for all the help on this.

I have before and can but with a young family I try to work from home in Valdres which is about 3 hours from Oslo.

Rjukan is a great ice destination, although increasingly overcrowded. In Valdres you are almost certainly going to be the only people at the falls. 

If your interested we can have chat about it. 

The responsible thing to do is remove it. Not only for safety but at some point it becomes litter. If it’s frozen in you’ll have no chance of getting it out. 

I try to use the rope as much as possible but  it’s not always possible due to ice conditions/ quality.

Have you come to any conclusions on what those conditions are? I've not needed to use abalakovs that much in my ice climbing, but when I have, it's been up in Arctic Norway. There you would feel bad if you let litter blow away from lunch while out in the mountains, but kind of just accept leaving behind several metres of nylon cord on what will eventually turn back into a flowing waterfall. Just threading the rope and abbing on that seems so much better but getting your ropes jammed is obviously far from idea and could end up with you abandoning a lot more nylon than 4 or 5 metres of 6mm!

Wet sticky ice or dry ice with water running over it would be the conditions I would use tat. Would also be cautious of dry ice with wet snow falling on it. I have a friend who argues that with dry treated ropes it shouldn't be an issue - but I know of enough people who have had their ropes freeze in to not bother myself if the ice is wet in any way.

But talking about jammed ropes - this one below has been my favorite to date and was on a v-thread with tat. This was on The big easy (WI-3+) in Ersfjord. I blame it on my stopper knots kinking the rope and locking up, but I guess there could be other reasons.

I have a vague recollection oc someone suggesting/using some natural rope of other.... sisal perhaps.

Was a long time ago, and not heard  anything since, so perhaps it's not such a great idea and he's lying at the bottom of some water....