UKH

Could any of you winter climbers tell me if rime is anything other than a bloody nuisance when winter climbing? I've been looking at the pics on here and fakebook of various stirring deeds featuring winter climbing up rimed up rock, and I'd love to know

Thanks

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Well it's not weight bearing in any useful way, and when it's thick it's a serious hindrance to finding the hooks/torques and gear placements underneath.

On the other hand with snowed-up rock type routes it's a decent coating of hoar frost or rime ice that makes the difference between summer and winter conditions. So in that sense... it's the opposite of a nuisance

In reply to elliptic:

on the contrary! I have climbed weight bearing rime on a couple of occasions! once on the final slab/wall of fingers ridge when the whole route was plastered in almost a foot of rime! the other on a route down in north wales. by the above I mean weight bearing for the axes! 99.999% of the time your axes will just cut right through it, but it is far more helpful for your feet, and can make a sloping ledge or a tiny edge feel much more secure and less pumpy on your calves as it partially supports the weight of your foot.

In reply to Webster:


How much rime do you need to make the tiny edge more secure? (and while I'm at it, what size is tiny?)

In reply to Andy Hardy:

While not exactly weight bearing, it does tend to hold all that loose rubble surrounding a route together. Also make for a pritty picture as well!

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Bloody nuisance? It's one of the most beautiful things on God's earth!

In reply to Tricadam:

It looks pretty, but surely it's an impediment to climbing?

In reply to Andy Hardy:

The games climbers play are arbitrary and nonsensical !
Yes it makes the climbing harder but without any of it, as a community, there is "almost" a consensus that it then becomes dry-tooling. As a nation your forebears have decided that DT was not on and to "almost" adhere to Patey's 3 rules:
1) easier with sharp things than without (DT is NOT always so).
2) frozen
3) white

There is some thinking behind this, I agree with them yet I would still posit that it's arbitrary:
I could wait for summer, I could walk from the back to reach the top.
That is not however, what I want when I go climbing in winter. I want adventure and challenge, I want a puzzle to sort out starting at home in deciding whether it'll be in. Some climbs are best left alone if there's very deep rime as they will become too hard and if you're a slow mortal like me it would be a strategic mistake. I have never climbed rime, it may have been a useful addition to stop axe wobbling, front points losing purchase on a few isolated occasions.

But yes you are right, it is an impediment, but a sought and cherished one! And as Tricadam says it's pretty too!

In reply to elliptic:


Indeed. The main function of rime is "winter ascent justification".

In reply to Chris Harris:


It provides a covering layer that needs to be removed in order to make progress, thus 'damaging the rock' even more than had the rock been completely dry in the first place.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

I do wonder if a lot of you folk have climbed on good rime-ice-covered buttresses, such as you regularly get high up on the Ben in mid-late season? No doubt about that stuff being weight bearing. Placing protection however...

In reply to Michael Gordon:
Part of the reason for my question is excactly that - I have dabbled with some easier winter climbs but all were gullies / icefalls, I've never done a rimed up rock type route
edit to add: it never looks like rime would hold my weight, and I think I'd be too chicken to try it!

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Even on much easier routes Rime can contribute to easier passage with crampons - smoothish slabs are an example - rather than teetering on points it can allow you solid crampon purchase and also for axes when there is a good buildup.

The steeper slabs above Sharp Edge sometimes get rimed up and then the ascent above the edge becomes quite joyous - avoid the normal gully when you get the chance as it is not very inspiring.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

I agree with most of these replies, particularly French Erick's.

I find that a rimed up mixed route is a thing of great aesthetic beauty and I relish the challenge of finding placements and gear underneath the rime and snow.

I tend to avoid routes that are black and I prefer to drop the grade to find acceptably snowy/white conditions,

M

In reply to Andy Hardy:

How much rime ice does their need to be on the grit before it's fair game for winter ascents?

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:
About 6 foot

In reply to ebdon:

Good to know, I hope everyone will stay off Scottish rock with their tools until similar conditions reach the highlands as not to damage the rock for future generations of climbers.

In reply to Tricadam:
That's because you,re Scottish. To me it,s aid climbing on picks and crampon points.
It doesn't really matter though because I can be in Cham in far less time and cut out all the flogs up the Ben in shit weather and come down to shit pubs.
I remember many years ago on our way up, with famous SMC hospitality, Al Rouse being slotted for entering the CIC hut without a key. Capital offence back then

In reply to Michael Gordon:

Although, as i have said, on occasion rime can be weight bearing. what you are refering to late season on the ben is most likely to be Snow ice, not Rime ice, a very different prospect! and a pure joy to climb.

In reply to rocksol:


I disagree with you but thankfully we are all entitled our own opinion. You also have not said anything that upset me greatly yet...the pubs are somewhat disappointing. Not that I'd be able to do any harm in there being a French lightweight. Almost everyone agrees that Cham is almost no longer French.

In reply to French Erick:

True about Cham. When I first went there in 1969 it was a different world, living in the woods above the Biolay. Now it,s mainly Russians or Brits., quite often of a most annoying kind and especially in winter, because it,s trendy and perceived as the "hardcore" place to be. However it does have the best mountains in western Europe and you can soon escape the hoorays, or take the piss!