Milky Way yesterday (17th December)

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 JdotP 18 Dec 2018

I would like to contact the party who were behind us on the Milky Way (Coire an Lochan) yesterday.  Firstly, it would be awesome to see your drone footage.  Secondly, you retrieved my hex from a belay when my climbing partner was struggling to remove it.  There is no need to return it as the set of hexes I was using is life-expired and due to be replaced imminently anyway (this is why we didn't wait for you at the top in the bracing conditions).

 Allovesclimbin 18 Dec 2018
In reply to JdotP:

Please please tell me no one was really flying a drone while on a route. 

I would have taken some good shots at it with some well compacted ice / snow balls . 

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In reply to Allovesclimbin:

In the early/mid nineties, the use of mobile phones in the hills was scorned. Now it is considered negligent not to take one with you. Technology changes and becomes mainstream.

Please do not throw things at drones, it is a particularly stupid act. No one wants a disable drone or poorly thrown lump of ice landing on their bonce, Rescue teams are using drones more and more frequently to locate casualties, the drone you are attempting to disable could be one of these. 

I know it is fashionable to have a drone moan, just like it once was to have a phone moan.

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 top cat 18 Dec 2018
In reply to Allovesclimbin:

Your mobile phone has no negative impact on my day .    Your drone most certainly does .  Not even remotely the same .

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In reply to top cat:

My point is that back then use of a mobile phone was considered a negative impact, disturbing ringtones, people shouting Dom Jolly like into their phones etc. Similar complaints to yours about drones were made repeatedly about mobile phones.

Once the complainers realised that they would not actually refuse one being used to call for help had they injured themselves, the arguement calmed.

Something similar will happen with drones. I know the lakes mrts are finding them extremely useful. How many of those that threaten to knock drones out of the sky would refuse a rescue team using one to locate them if in trouble?

Fashion's change and the next new thing to moan about will arrive. Cams, sticky rubber, chalk, bolts, dry tooling, they have all had their 15 minutes.

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 DaveHK 19 Dec 2018
In reply to Presley Whippet:

It's a simple distinction - drones for rescue purposes are fine drones for every man and dog are not fine. To extend your analogy, MRT use choppers, would you be happy with lots of folks using them to get to the crag?

 

Post edited at 06:18
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 wercat 19 Dec 2018
In reply to DaveHK:

The army has guns .. So why can't I

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 Martin Haworth 19 Dec 2018
In reply to Presley Whippet:

Drones are completely unnecessary for the climber on a route and a distraction to other climbers and walkers, and quite intrusive at times.

The fact they are useful to rescuers is a completely different point, it about as relevant as me pointing out that helicopters are also useful to rescuers so its fine if climbers started taking their own helicopters with them on routes!

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 james.slater 19 Dec 2018
In reply to Martin Haworth:

I think he was making the point that throwing things with the intention of disabling the drone should be avoided, in case it is being used for rescue purposes. To be honest, it doesn't matter who it belongs to or who is controlling it, you don't intentionally damage something that isn't yours. Regardless of how annoying it may be.

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 The Lemming 19 Dec 2018
In reply to JdotP:

All the people complaining about the drone, were you on the same route or within earshot of the drone at the time?

If you were not on the route or within earshot of the event, then why are you complaining that your day was spoilt?

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In reply to james.slater:

Yes, general safety, don't chuck things at drones you don't know who they or your missiles might land on.

Thankfully people's behaviour in the real world is generally much less aggressive than their words online.

The fuss will blow over eventually.

I just remembered, mountain bikes, the furore they caused was quite special too.

Thankfully moaning never goes out of fashion and neither does moaning about moaning

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 Allovesclimbin 19 Dec 2018
In reply to Presley Whippet:

My point was picked up by other users . My phone does not disturb others , drones do and are used the vast majority of the time for the owner’s enjoyment at the detriment of other hill users. I have been bused by drones in Scotland and the Lakes while winter climbing and yes , I find them intrusive and off putting. 

They are put to good use by MRT’s as are helicopters, but as already pointed out , you don’t go flying those around people trying to enjoy a fantastic day climbing or walking . 

I well recall winter climbing in the early 90’s when mobiles started to become a thing , and the argument there was lack of self reliance and ease of calling for help without the ability to use map and compass. Entirely different. 

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 hang_about 19 Dec 2018
In reply to Allovesclimbin:

> I would have taken some good shots at it with some well compacted ice / snow balls . 

Very irresponsible - drones will crash all by themselves

youtube.com/watch?v=xeviAWB0i4Y&

I know which I'd rather be hit by

 Luke90 19 Dec 2018
In reply to Allovesclimbin:

I'm generally of the same opinion about drones as you and most others on this thread. They can certainly be intrusive and unwelcome, especially in otherwise calm and peaceful environments.

In this case, however, it seems worth noting that the only person we know was in the vicinity (the person posting this thread) seems to have been quite happy with the drone's presence and is keen to see the results. It's entirely possible that the owner of the drone established this before flying it.

If he didn't, and just got lucky, then I think he was still being rude. In my opinion, the etiquette for drones in the wild should be that it's fine to use them if you can confidently establish that you won't be bothering any wildlife and that any people within earshot or camera view are happy with it.

In much the same way that outright bans on crags are generally less respected by climbers than thoughtful and limited restrictions, asking drone owners to use them courteously seems likely to get a better response than condemning any and all use.

 Martin Haworth 19 Dec 2018
In reply to james.slater:

I don't think that was the main point he was trying to make, but I could well be wrong. I think his central argument was that it's trendy to whinge about drones but give it a few years and we might all be using and accepting them, whilst also trying to justify their use by climbers because rescuers use them. Sort of implying we are flat-earthers for complaining. Maybe he is right.

 Martin Haworth 19 Dec 2018
In reply to Luke90: I think the points you make are very reasonable.

 

 james.slater 20 Dec 2018
In reply to Martin Haworth:

Agreed, it wasnt his main point, but I thought it was worth raising that drones being used by rescue services in this case isnt necessarily irrelevant.

 james.slater 20 Dec 2018
In reply to Luke90:

I agree completely

In reply to Allovesclimbin:

> My point was picked up by other users . My phone does not disturb others , drones do and are used the vast majority of the time for the owner’s enjoyment at the detriment of other hill users. I have been bused by drones in Scotland and the Lakes while winter climbing and yes , I find them intrusive and off putting. 

> They are put to good use by MRT’s as are helicopters, but as already pointed out , you don’t go flying those around people trying to enjoy a fantastic day climbing or walking . 

> I well recall winter climbing in the early 90’s when mobiles started to become a thing , and the argument there was lack of self reliance and ease of calling for help without the ability to use map and compass. Entirely different. 

I recall the same person was being a drone cheerleader on another thread. Someone suggested that said person might be the owner of an expensive drone. I don't recall this being denied.

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 Allovesclimbin 20 Dec 2018
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

Which person ? Not me!

In reply to Allovesclimbin:

No, Mr Whippet.

 Roberttaylor 21 Dec 2018
In reply to top cat:

I'd rather the cheerful whir of a drone than the incessant braying calls of Nigel and Geoff as they inform the whole coire of their antics. I'd welcome anti-noise legislation for parks provided it also covered braying.

Also, if I were a billionaire and could have a personal helicopter shuttle me and my mates to and from remote winter crags I would do it every chance I got.

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 ColdWill 21 Dec 2018
In reply to Roberttaylor:

I haven't heard much braying at the crags in 30 odd years but last year at Stanage someone was flying a drone up and down the crag, it was quite annoying.  When I got to the top I found it was a braying t**t called Geoff.

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

Not me either

In reply to JdotP:

I, like many, am sad when a drone intrudes into my peace.  Of course, rather like Stanage, or Vallorcine or any other mainstream crag, the Northern Corries are not somewhere to seek quiet solitude anymore.  Of course, one can find oneself at the right time of week and on the right route, in solitude but this is no longer the norm.  But there are plenty of other places to go where technology does not currently intrude.  So, sad as I am, I can't complain about how people might choose to 'consume' in the mainstream.  But, I can find places where they don't have the patience to go.


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