How to find out if Welsh winter routes are in condition.

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 Pete_Frost 15 Dec 2017
The BMC Cwm Idwal temperature sensors seem to be an accurate guide to ground conditions on the high, north facing crags. If that doesn't report a solid freeze at 5cm depth, then gullies and routes relying on turf are unlikely to be in condition in Cwm Idwal, Clogwyn Du and the Trinity Face of Snowdon. Check the website and save yourself the walk in. https://www.thebmc.co.uk/idwal

To test the accuracy of the sensor I tried an experimental placement in a turf blob at Clogwyn Du and it pulled right through - the sensor reading suggested that turf was about a half degree above freezing at that altitude and it was right. climbing on un-frozen turf will be dangerous, ruin the route and could result in a climbing ban by Natural Resources Wales for damaging a Site of Special Scientific Interest.
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 Misha 15 Dec 2017
In reply to Pete_Frost:
Where did you do your test - crag base? I’ve found in the past that with turf down to +0.5 at 30cm it’s been bomber on the actual crag. I suspect the sensor is at the bottom of the crag or even a bit lower and gets buried in snow, while the turf on the crag can freeze more readily in the wind. So I’d be going to have a look tomorrow if I wasn’t in Scotland! It helps if you can do routes which are mostly rock... I think Golden Girl Ali is mostly rock and at the amenable grade of IV 5, albeit it’s only one pitch. Agree about not climbing on unfrozen turf.
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 Misha 17 Dec 2017
In reply to Misha:
Although I’m told turf wasn’t frozen at the top of the crag on Saturday, which surprised me. Still plenty of non-turfy routes to do round there.
 TobyA 17 Dec 2017
In reply to Misha:

> Still plenty of non-turfy routes to do round there.

Are there? My impression of Welsh and Lakes winter routes are there are very few which don't have some turf on them. I've not climbed on Clogwyn Du though... (yet).


 LakesWinter 17 Dec 2017
In reply to TobyA:

Well clogwyn Ddu left branch is all ice in good nick, which I understand it was recently
 Pay Attention 17 Dec 2017
In reply to Pete_Frost:

The Snowdon Rangers post information and sometimes pictures on a National Park web site of conditions on Snowdon. This would be handy for info on the Trinity Face if you don't want to scrape rock and turf in Idwal(!).
Can't find the National Park web page for Snowdon path conditions however, even searching under Snowdonia or Eryri. Does anyone have the link?
In reply to Pay Attention:

The Rangers reports are very much geared to reporting conditions on the main paths. There is a massive difference between needing to carry crampons for iced sections of zigzags and Trinity face being in condition. The Idwal temperature gauges are a far better resource.
 philluu 17 Dec 2017
In reply to Pay Attention:

I assume you mean this
http://www.snowdonia.gov.wales/visiting/walking/ground-conditions

They changed their site recently I think.
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 Misha 17 Dec 2017
In reply to TobyA:
Clogwyn LH is all ice. Pillar Chimey is minimal turf, mostly rock, grovelling then ice (or steeper ice instead of grovelling If the ice variation is in). Golden Girl Ali is mostly rock. Plenty of turffest routes but some of the harder lines are rock eg Travesty. As you can see from the logbooks, all of the above were done on Saturday so there was stuff to do even if the turf was iffy.
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 Pay Attention 17 Dec 2017
In reply to philluu:

Thanks - that's the one.
OP Pete_Frost 19 Dec 2017
In reply to Misha:

I was at the start of Clogwyn Left Hand and tried a "blob" on the wall because I thought the sensor might be buried and stuff on the wall might freeze better because it was free of snow. I was surprised that the turf wasn't frozen enough to hold a deep "stick". I know the guy who supervised the sensor project and he's a local climber so I guess he made sure the sensor was placed in an appropriate location.
I'm definitely going to stay on non-turf routes unless the sensor shows the turf is below zero at 5cm. I know I might be able to get away with a warmer turf reading if things cool down in the 100m between the bottom and top, but I really don't want to take the risk of breaking an ankle when a placement rips, trashing the route, or getting the whole crag banned.
 davegs 19 Dec 2017
In reply to Pete_Frost:

Keep an eye on Twitter @welshwinter #welshwinter

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