UKH

Hello Folks,

I did my first 2 winter gullies today. Broad gully and forked gully (staying left) at stob coir nan lochan. The snow was hard and neve like on both but, forked gully was a lot steeper than broad gully and not stepped in at all. At times this meant meant I was climbing toe spikes only which was causing me pain in the arch of my feet. I have not had this pain on softer snow/climbs where I can kick half a foot in nor did I have it in a more stepped in broad gully.

I'm using grivel aero crampons on hanwag ferrata ii gtx.  

I just wanted to ask if this pain is normal or an issue with my kit and/or kit set up?

Thanks, Chris 

Definitely not normal.

Those shoes are quite flexible for prolonged front pointing. This might have caused you to put a lot of effort in keeping your feet straight, which might have led to the pain. 

As fas as technique goes, did you keep your heels low? 

WRT Technique, I'm usually quite intuitive with this sort of thing and know I would have been trying different positions to eleviate the discomfort so suspect the correct foot position was one of the many causing discomfort as opposed to the cure.

I recall at times actually using the inner most toe spikes and those on the inner front of the crampon to relieve the discomfort caused by using the front two toe spikes, having tried many foot angles with the later.

It appears to be a case of having reached the limit if what the hsnwags are suitable for which tbh, is actually pretty useful to have found out early on.

I'll use them for the rest of the winter noting their limitations and then retire them to spring/summer use, probably going for some b3's next winter.

Thanks for your help.

I should just say for anyone reading this to research these boots, I've got on well with them up to this point.

https://www.hanwag.com/eu/en-gb/men/rock/ferrata-ii-gtx

It's designed to allow some flex in the sole itself and flex/mobility in the ankles both sideways and forward/back.

If you spend a lot of time continuously front pointing (standing on the "toe spikes", i.e. the front points) then the underside of your foot (fascia), calf and toes will be doing a lot of work. Not only is it like tip toes, it's actually tougher than that if you look at the extra distance/leverage the front points cause.

It's a good general purpose boot, but now you'll understand why steep ice climbers want stiffer boots if they plan on doing a lot of front pointing.

Nice one, getting your first gullies!! Hope you enjoyed it, keep going!

AS you say, these boots really aren't designed for this sort of thing - mores for scrambling/VF with a snow/glacier approach that may necessitate some crampons. Probably more comfortable in a steep hard snow gully if you're more experienced (and therefore move faster, better technique , more robust relevant musculature etc etc) but I suspect the OP would be better off with a classical beginner B2 boot/G12-type crampon setup for such things, rather than the one they have (which, to caveat, is a nice kit pairing, just for a slightly different purpose).

To the OP: also could be worth trying some fitted/more supportive inner soles. It's likely that with the bog standard ones your foot is poorly supported and the bottom of your foot is doing a lot of work within the boot.

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

Having recently started winter hill walking  I've enjoyed it immensely buy tbh im most drawn to the climbing and can see myself getting really into with a view to progression to some of the harder grades.

So I guess my question is...stiffer b2 or straight to b3?

I have wide feet...any recommendations on makes that cater for this?

If you like the Hanwag fit you might want to give the Friction II GTX and/or the Sirius II GTX a go. The former is B2 rated although quite a stiff one, the latter is a B3 rated boot but quite a flexible one. 

Stiffer stuff could also make sense if you see yourself progressing to vertical/near vertical water ice climbing. Then you could keep the Ferratas for scrambles and for grade I-II winter.