UKH

Anyone got any recommendations for a first grade V mixed route and/or ice route. I am reasonably happy leading IV, but not sure about what would be a good first V lead.  Thinking Indicator Wall (Ice) and Savage Slit (mixed). Was thinking a single pitch at Cha-no, but I don't think they're in just now. 

Any advice welcome. 

Cheers,

Steven

Savage Slit is a decent first one. TBH most of the Northern Corries V,6s are fine.

My first was Menage a Trois (V 6) on Dothaidh. The crux pitch has plenty of rock gear, isn't super steep and it's easy to reach from Glasgow if you're based down there. We did using the bus to get up and home!

They'd both be good first Vs. 

If you are up at Indicator Wall and it's busy be aware that Smith's, particularly by the original line, is quite a lot steeper so maybe not a great first one as an alternative. 

Hadrian's Wall Direct (V 5)

Didnt seem too steep to me for grade V but there was a pitch of IV right at the top when I did it and it's a long route.

The Pumpkin (V 4) in good conditions is pretty easy for V imho as the belays are alright and the steep bit is short.

If you're looking for one that's in now then as far as I'm aware neither of those routes are in condition right now

Personally if you are contemplating V 6 mixed as your first V I would make sure you have some mileage at IV 6 first. My first V was the pumpkin which is pretty soft but also a step up from the long IV ice routes I've done its also really good. As with anything its all about conditions. Indicator wall I've not done but I was saving it for good conditions (fat and solid enough to take screws), when it could feel more like IV 4 tbh, there is a few of the grade V routes on the Ben like that. 

If you ever fancy it this is only IV 5 single pitch ice and often in nick, but its reputed to be harder than most the grade V ice pitches on the Ben if you take them in isolation. We certainly didn't find it a push over https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/ben_nevis-16877/the_cascade-43116. Another ice IV that can be hard in typical nick and is fairly reliable is https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/cairn_gorm_-_stob_coire_an_t-sneac...  which is also really a 1 pitch wonder. If you can do both of those with no issue in moderate but not stupidly fat nick you should be fine on most the longer ice grade V's that are fair or easy in the grade in good nick.

I've found most of the grade V's ice routes on Ben Nevis - Point 5, Orion, Vanishing Gully, Hadrian's, Smith's etc to be fairly straightforward, you just need to be fit enough and have good stamina to do them. They obviously can be quite intimidating to get on but if you've got a good base of easier climbs, technically you should find them ok. 

If doing these routes late in the season they can get stepped out, thus making them feel easier than the grade, just be mindful that steep ice is tiring rather than technically difficult.

Thanks, I was thinking about Smiths as well, so that's good to know. 

Thanks, I like the advice on IV 6 routes, I am certainly keen to get on the Message. Aladdin's Mirror direct was fine when I did it, and Cascade sounds like a good one. 

Thanks to everyone for all the advice, Pumpkin sounds good, shame it's not in right now. Fingers crossed for some more snow. 

Thanks again everyone. 

Cascade is harder than Pumpkin Imho

It's a fun route. My partner and I climbed quite a few IV,5 and IV,6s before we started climbing V,6. If you want to go the mixed route, I think that's definitely the way to go - you get to try relatively hard moves but well protected, at least they should be at IV,6. Back then - 90s - good ice screws were so expensive and ice tools where OK but didn't even have clipper leashes yet, let alone full leashless, I think ice climbs seemed much more intimidating. So I never tried Point Five or the other classic grade V gullies but we did tick off an OK number of V,6 mixed routes over the last couple of years I was living in Scotland. We did do the Cascade around that time but I think because it was graded IV, we thought it wouldn't be so different to other IVs we had done.

If you find The Message ok then Pot of Gold to it's right would be another good first V mixed route - I thought not quite as hard a crux as the Message but a bit more sustained. 

Personally I think single pitch ice routes on Ben Nevis can be a little under graded because they are in close proximity to multi pitch routes. I think Cascade would get V 5, and Mega Route X VI 6 on Beinn Udlaidh as they are very compatible to Peter Pan Direct (V 5) and Cut Throat (VI 6).

Or maybe the Beinn Udlaidh routes are over graded? 

Time to get on them Toby. 

Having done lot of water ice in Finland and Norway in the intervening decades I know how to ice climb now as well - so I'd probably be OK, but they aura they have is still there!

Pick a good weather day so you just have to worry about the climbing, get up very early to avoid the crowds and get stuck in. Once you've done one of them you'll be hooked. 

I did Hadrian's Wall again last year and had rock belays all the way up - might be a good first one.

Orion and Hadrians are less steep (perhaps more like tech 4) than the likes of Vanishing Gully. Thought the Cascade felt solid V,5; it's quite steep and sustained.

Yeah the Cascade is pretty steep and sustained and probably should be V. On the plus side its often in nick, is only 1 pitch long and you can see exactly what you are letting your self in for from the bottom of it.

I tend to agree the longer routes on the Ben that I've done do tend to be a bit on the easier side of the grading compared with elsewhere (and some of the shorter routes on the Ben like the cascade or Tower Scoop)

The other thing to remember is that a V,6 mixed route has very little in common with a grade V ice route (generally speaking). Going for it on a well protected V,6 mixed route is unlikely to have serious consequences should a wee slip occur, but going for it on a grade V ice route could have a very different outcome. Good ice technique and stamina when climbing a grade V ice route should be considered a form of protection, just as important (or more so) than the screws. I see little harm in jumping on savage slit and pot of gold (as long as the cracks aren't too iced) but would consider doing the classic IV ice routes or at least lots of mileage on euro ice before having a pop at Hadrian's and the like FWIW.