UKH

Morning all,

not it sure if this is posted in the correct section but I’m thinking of taking a jaunt up kinder Saturday. Anyone know what conditions are like? 

Cheers 

It's going to be quite warm on Friday and Saturday so everything will be in different stages of melt.

I was on Bleaklow on Sunday and there was a bit of moist, slowly thawing ice surviving above 500 m (I scrambled Ashton clough which was a bit loose and more interesting for the aircraft pieces than the actual scrambling). I think Monday might also have been in thaw or near enough and there's only been one really cold day (today) so it seems unlikely there'll be anything particularly impressive. That said, I'll probably be up on of the cloughs tomorrow evening and can report back. Most likely it'll be the awkward no-mans land where its just too slippery for "summer" scrambling but not frozen enough to justify anything else.

 Checked it out in Saturday afternoon. Needs more prolonged colder spell. Water flowing and just the very top edge starting to form. Bring your towel and shampoo if you're going.

Not cold enough.

There was snow right down to Edale village today, melting fast on south facing slopes but with the ground still well frozen on north facing ones. Quite a lot of ice about high up. Mam Tor Gully was soggy crap (and unfrozen turf) but BackTor Gully was ok. I'm just over the hill from Edale and at 400m and it's freezing hard here now. Warmer air due tomorrow afternoon though and rain/sleet Saturday. 

Thanks for the advice guys ????

I once did Mam Torr Gully in good condition, best I'd ever seen in about half a dozen jaunts up it in winter conditions,  so wandered round to Back Tor Gully expecting the snow to be spot on. It was absolute rubbish, nothing frozen and didn't improve with height, became rather exciting, not what I was expecting at all. Ah ! the fickleness of winter conditions.

John

Amazing how much those shale routes vary, isn't it?Because they face opposite directions Mam Tor and Back Tor often have completely different conditions. Despite 30 odd trips up various Mam Tor routes and half a dozen up Back Tor I've yet to find them both in good nick at the same time. Obviously you can get up MTG in almost anything if your masochism level is high enough (although I did get avalanched in it once). One night it had a 50m streak of water ice in the middle section, and I once had to hack through an 8 foot cornice.

All the snow washed away now.

Said I'd report back though I suppose its a bit late now. Went up Crowden clough and down Grindsbrook yesterday. There was a nice bit of snowy winter wonderland on the very top despite all the mud in the valley and the slopes just below. Some ice on the paths and rocks although (perhaps obviously) none of any value for climbers.

Probably back to a "summer" landscape by now. Hoping all the snow in the lakes doesn't follow.

I'm told that most of it already has

Yeah it sort of looks that way

Much the same up round Grindsbrook today, some ice on paths, ground soft and unfrozen.

Under heavy powder and a sudden drop in temperature the rock and turf on Back Tor Gully might be insulated by the snow and remain unfrozen despite facing north; when the freeze thaw on the much easier Mam Tor gully that faces into the morning sun could mean its OK neve despite being above unfrozen rock and turf  (but bonded in by the eveing re freezed surface melt). Back Tor is still 'in' much more often than Man Tor gully and yet bizzarely unpopular given the fuss made about the Downfall. 

You're right about the conditions that leave Back Tor Gully unfrozen when Mam Tor Gully us ok, but actually MTG is in nick far more often than BTG (although as you imply, it's usually better at night). Back Tor is 100m lower than Mam Tor and is very often snow free when there is still snow left on the Mam. Often the big snow dumps are from northerlies too, which tend to scour BTG and pile powder into MTG, so it lasts a bit longer. I've lived and worked below them for nearly 20 years and wrote snow reports on them (and Winnats) for a facebook site for a decade so I've got a good stock of data!

I never thought of night ascents... funny as I recommend them for the Downfall to beat the queues and the trashed ice.

Go do it, excellent fun. The snow is usually better, and the light from the cement works means that you only need a torch to kit up. The rather spooky reddish light makes it feel huge!