Carrying mitts on winter climbs

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 TobyA 02 Jan 2020

I've put this thread in winter climbing not gear because I want to hear experiences from regular Scottish (or elsewhere in the UK) winter climbers. Who carries mitts - maybe for belaying, maybe for walking off, maybe for emergencies?

When I lived and climbed in Scotland in the early-mid 90s it was just the norm. I had some goretex pile lined Wild Country ones, that had cost me an arm and leg for going on an expedition when I was 18, and they went religiously in the pack every time out. It just seemed what you did, along with packing a whistle, Petzl Zoom, compass, map and orange survival bag. I don't remember using them that much but I must have done as I didn't have many alternative gloves - my standard system was Wild Country Sticky Thickies over Thinies (which worked rather well for harder routes) but I must have used the mitts when it got really wild.

I then only got to climb rarely in the UK over next two decades, but I was ice climbing most weekends in generally much colder conditions than we get here. In 2014 I came back to the UK and started UK winter climbing again, now with a decent selection of different types of gloves for ice climbing, much better than I had back in 90s. But still I have been in the habit of taking mitts with me "just in case". Maybe it's global warming, maybe it's my circulation has improved, maybe - and most likely - I've just got better climbing gloves now, but I don't think I've ever worn the mitts. I managed to drop a pair down Ben Nevis last winter - cue a moment of panic and images of frost bite blackened fingers - but oddly enough, the other gloves I had kept my fingers normal coloured and attached for the rest of day.

So - the question - is the era of belay mitts now in the past for UK winter?

Post edited at 15:52
 petegunn 02 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

Mine go in the bag if I know that I will be belaying for a long stint or if it's a wild weather day. I have a few times carried them on my harness on routes when it's been particularly cold i.e. minus 10°c

 Doug 02 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

Think I have the same Wild Country mitts as you describe. Only time I've worn them as sold in recent years was skiing from the Dix to the Vignettes via the Pigne d'Arolla when, at least according to the hut warden at the Vignettes, it was around -25°. The pile inners are pretty flattened now but I often throw the outers into my bag as a waterproof layer that I could wear over my thinner gloves.

And going back a little earlier (1970s) it was almost compulsory to have a pair of Dachstein mitts - are those still sold ?

Post edited at 16:39
 Siward 02 Jan 2020

> And going back a little earlier (1970s) it was almost compulsory to have a pair of Dachstein mitts - are those still sold ?

Why (oh why oh why o why) will people persist in asking this question? You'd think they'd gone out of fashion or something.

The answer is- of course.

https://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Clothing-Footwear/Clothing-Accessori...

 Basemetal 02 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

I'm not a hard climber but I do get Raynaud's occasionally. I used to climb in dachsteins and then those big 1980 Sno Mo "elbow length"  pile lined Goretex Cordura mitts. I could work crabs and belays with them on or whip one off easily if I had to. I lost one in 'Sneachda in a hooly two years back and had a think about  what I wanted to replace them with. (I climb up to about IV now and have my sights on V).

First idea was a German army mitt -leather faced, pile lined, shorter cuffed. OK but not as dexterous as the Sno-Mos and more prone to snow in the wrist. Then I bought a pair of cheap (£12) NATO mitts and over mitts. These came as a Goretex shelled pile inner and a goretex outer and they're surprisingly  light and warm. A handwarmer teabag between the layers would get me through anything overnight. I think I'll always carry these as back up or recovery option. 

I bought a couple of pairs of Skylon freezer gloves to try and like them well enough for dry days. And finally in the last sales I tried a pair of outgoing Rab Guides -wrong hand shape for me so returned -and then a pair of Alpkit Rhombic.  So far the Rhombics have performed well and will be my "all day" gloves, but I'm happy knowing I can stick my hands in mitts if I have to.

Just writing this out I realise that it's the ability of mitts to hold a handwarmer on the back of your hand that really commends them to me, and that could be just about any mitt.

In reply to TobyA:

I always carry belay mitts, in stuff sack with belay jacket, clipped to harness. I size them big enough XL so easily pull over climbing gloves.

There's been times I haven't taken belay jacket, ALWAYS take mitts though.

Stuart

 druridge 02 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

Mitts should be compulsory on dry ski slopes; stop loads of kids breaking a little finger in a fall (seriously !).

OP TobyA 02 Jan 2020
In reply to Stuart the postie:

How often do you reckon you use them Stuart? Every time? Half the time? Etc.

 summo 02 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

Yeah. Fashions change but the benefits of mitts don't. I've have a pair for cross country skiing too. 

 DaveHK 02 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

I often use mitts for belaying.

In reply to TobyA:

Ever time I'm belaying. I usually wear them if using poles, walking in and it's cold, windy.

I'm a mitts kinda guy.

Stuart

In reply to TobyA:

I climb in thinnish gloves, OR Vertes or similar.

Stuart

OP TobyA 02 Jan 2020
In reply to Stuart the postie:

What mitts do you use? Are they like Gore-Tex ones with no lining if you are wearing them directly over your climbing gloves?

 MG 02 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

Dachsteins all the way. Wear them about one time in three. 

OP TobyA 02 Jan 2020
In reply to MG:

I've never really got the dachstein lurrvvvvee from so many, but if the work for you!  

I had a successful weekend in Scotland just before Christmas, "guiding" two mates. I realised I did both days, all day, wearing just one pair of leather work gloves. These remain my favourite gloves. I did half mitts and Gore-Tex gloves in the bag though, just never needed to get them out!

 planetmarshall 02 Jan 2020
In reply to MG:

> Dachsteins all the way. Wear them about one time in three. 

I usually have a pair stuffed down my belay jacket and swap over to a thinner pair for climbing. Unless it's absolutely baltic and I'm ice climbing in which case I may just keep them on. I find I only really need dexterity for placing rock pro (ie mostly mixed routes).

Post edited at 17:42
 J Whittaker 02 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

I usually pack my Hestra 3 finger mitts. Dont use them all the time but they are welcome when i do. With the 3 finger style i can keep some dexterity for doing stuff and belaying easily. 

They are also nice for shoving on after topping out, gets the warmth back in my hands quickly.

 pass and peak 02 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

Black Diamond Mercury mitts almost always go in the stuff sack for winter climbing, if its a particularly nice day I might swap them for a second pair of gloves. However the way Scottish winter conditions are going lately, if you not out in marginal weather your probably not going out at all!

In reply to TobyA:

I currently have ME Mountain Mitts £35, they're ok.

I also have a pair of Extremities Polarloft thingies, warmer, too slick for really belaying with (no sticky palm). Ideally, you want to use these with overmitt, more faff pulling over/off gloves.

My preference is for a single skin, water resistant, Polarloft (not pile) mitt, attach elastic wrist loops. Whip them on and off with ease when dexterity of fingers needed, rope tangles, pictures.

Montane Extreme Mitts look ok too, small made though.

Last time out, partner exchanged BD Mercury Mitts (bought in sales, too big, bulky for him) for a fish tea, in Happy Haggis! Result, haven't had chance to use them yet, tick all the boxes, massive though!

Stuart

Ps. Another friend currently using Decathlon Down Mitts, seems happy with them.

In reply to TobyA:

I've had a pair of Primaloft North Ridge mitts for a few years, I can only recall using them once descending the Ben and never to belay. 

They normally live in the pockets of my belay jacket as a last resort as I've used all my other gloves up. My climbing partner has a set of Rab Mittens that she swears by.

OP TobyA 02 Jan 2020
In reply to Stuart the postie:

The pair I dropped down Ben Nevis last year were some Decathlon ones I had bought for I think 8 quid one morning a few years ago whilst cycling through Sheffield in wet snow and had soaked my normal cycling gloves going down hill! They were great as they were lightly insulated and packed away to almost nothing. I dropped them because stupidly I had forgotten they were in the dry bag with my belay jacket and as I pulled it out, they flew out as well. But along with them having been cheap, it was probably 26 years since I last dropped something of value down the Ben (my first helmet!), so I can be philosophical about my mistake.

I do have a pair of quite big and insulated BD gloves - I sometimes take them along in lieu of mitts, in Finland I used to use them ice climbing on -15 or below days, so they are warm for gloves, but it may well be I've never needed to wear them either in the UK.

OP TobyA 02 Jan 2020
In reply to pass and peak:

> However the way Scottish winter conditions are going lately, if you not out in marginal weather your probably not going out at all!

I know what you mean, but I reckon weather forecasts are so good these days, you have a lot more knowledge of what your day out is likely to be like now, at least compared to the early-90s when watching Heather the Weather do the five minute national forecast on BBC Scotland was about the best forecasting you'd get. Perhaps some how this accounts for less walking off hills in storms than I remember from when I was at uni, but also most my winter routes in recent years have been in England and Wales, so not as high, not as far north and maybe not as wild...

 BnB 02 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

I never feel the need for mitts on belay and I hate the way you lose all dexterity but I do have a pair for snowy gullies that require much plunging of axe (and hands) into the snow. These have the linings removed to slip on over the thin liner gloves I wear on approaches

 Adam Russell 02 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

I always take mitts and wear on any belay over 15mins or so. Big black diamond mercury or warmer, clipped to harness.

 Exile 02 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

I don't carry mitts any more as I wasn't using them. I do take three different weight climbing gloves:

BD dry tool gloves - basically an unlined scholar glove. These aren't warm enough for me to climb in. I use them for walking in and out, and gearing up

A Marmot pair a bit thinner than my old BD Punishers - 90% of my climbing

A Marmot pair a bit thicker than my old BD Punishers - 10% of my climbing (cold days on ice)

I also use some dry suit replacement cuffs - basically neoprene wrist warmers - to cover the gap between my base layer and glove. These are the best £7.00 I've ever spent.

I  also use a BD Stance belay jacket on all belays. This is a pretty chunky jacket so I suspect keeping my core warm and having no gaps around my wrists means I get away with thinner gloves. 

Post edited at 20:27
 Basemetal 02 Jan 2020
In reply to Exile:

> I also use some dry suit replacement cuffs - basically neoprene wrist warmers - to cover the gap between my base layer and glove. These are the best £7.00 I've ever spent.

Thanks for that!

 Misha 02 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

I pretty much always use mitts for the walk in and belays, except where it’s not too cold, the belay is going to be fairly short and my hands are already warm. I use these, which might seem like overkill but I still get cold fingers on a long belay!

https://www.exxpozed.co.uk/herren-accessoires-outdoor-research-m-alti-mitts...

However I use relatively thin gloves (ME Super Alpine) for technical leaders. Hands tend to warm up when climbing so I find that thick gloves aren’t essential in ok weather.

I have (mild?) Raynaud’s so keeping fingers warm is a major issue in winter.

 Andy Hardy 02 Jan 2020
In reply to Thread:

What do people think of those mitts with individual finger pockets inside?

I think they are worse than useless personally they keep your fingers apart and are more fiddly to put on, especially with cold damp hands

 David Myatt 02 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

I use Dachsteins pretty much all day when climbing and only rarely need to take them off.  Have done for 45 years and can’t see any reason to change. I’ve changed every other bit of kit over the years but will stick with the mitts.

 LucaC 02 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

I think mitts are a bit useless if you ever actually need to do anything other than the most basic of walk outs, so I routinely carry a pair of BD guide gloves clipped to the back of my harness to wear when belaying/seconding/walking out/have get cold hands. 

1
 Misha 03 Jan 2020
In reply to LucaC:

BD Guide gloves are great but I find they aren't quite warm enough. Mitts are fine for walking in and out as long as you don't need to use an axe. I find them fine for belaying as well. I normally have a pair of thin liner gloves on underneath, so if I need to do something requiring more dexterity (like taking photos), I just take the mitts off for a bit (not a great idea if it's snowing but they you probably won't be taking many photos anyway!). 

 DR 05 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

I used to use mitts when I climbed more regularly and although not very dextrous even then I managed to cope without dropping too much gear (although I did drop a mate's rack of nuts once - that was an expensive spill...)!! I still got the hot aches in really cold weather.

Now for the few times I get out a season, I either use thin merino liners under BD Punishers if the weather is pish or the same under Montane Super Prism primaloft gloves if weather us more benign i.e. cold,  dry and still. They wouldn't stand much punishment but are toasty warm.

Cheers

Davie

 Nathan Adam 05 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

After getting the worst hot aches of my life when I first started 7 years ago because I belayed and then climbed in cold, wet gloves, I always have a pair of mittens for belaying in and put my climbing gloves inside next to my baselayer to warm them up and dry out a bit. Tends to be habit now that regardless of how warm I am when I reach the next stance after leading that I'll pull up my ropes, get my partner on belay and then put on my belay jacket and mittens and settle in.

I use a pair of Montane ones with some fibre pile material on the back of the hand with some insulation and a light leather palm and live in the pockets of my belay jacket along with a dry-bag. They are by no means hefty but they do the job well and I like that I can clench my fist and move my fingers around to get some warmth. Also, they're quite dexterous so I can second and take gear out in them if the conditions are crappy and near the top of the route when I'm less bothered about them getting a bit wet. I've just bought a ME Citadel as an upgrade for my Montane Flux and I'm hoping I'll be generally warmer so can keep using the lighter weight mittens.

Have manged to avoid hot aches on the most part (maybe 4 or 5 times in 6 seasons) since that original ordeal!

 Ann S 05 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

I carry a small pair of pile/pertex mitts which live in the cradle space of my Petzl Ecrin, to help deaden the noise of ice hitting my bonce. Only wear them on the walk off if it's a bit parky. My standard hand kit consists of a pair of cheap wool gloves from the kiddy section of Tesco and over them a now ancient pair of Extremities sticky palm things. If hands get cold on belay I stick my fingers in my mouth and blow hard. Tastes shit but does the job. 

OP TobyA 05 Jan 2020
In reply to Ann S:

I seem to remember some discussion back in the 90s that you shouldn't put things between the cradle and the helmet in helmets like the Ecrins, because it can't then move down as it should if impacted hard? Not sure if mitts would be firm enough to worry - and if not, then that's a clever place to keep them!

 lpretro1 17 Jan 2020
In reply to David Myatt:

Me too! I haven't found anything to beat them for warm and weather-proofing - and the plus side is that they stick to ice to due to their fluffy nature. Have found a lot of modern stuff a bit slippery - but prob I'm rather old skool now!!

 girlymonkey 17 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

I wear mitts for general life! I have about 4 pairs in the bag for a winter day! I have super warm primaloft insulated ones with internal fingers and they are the best thing ever. I like to keep my hands very warm and the mitts do it best 😊

 oldie 18 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

One noticeable feature of this thread is that in winter many use bulky mitts particularly for belaying with often slippery rope, whereas there is advice from the BMC against using even gloves for belaying with plate/tube when rock climbing, as they decrease hand breaking braking force. In fact at least in the UK few rock climbers seem to use gloves.

There are other threads eg ukclimbing.com/forums/gear/belay_gloves_a_bad_idea-588539 and the more recent BMC Summit article which quite strongly advised considering using bare hands when belaying (to be fair the main author has also stated in UKC threads that gloves can be invaluable in a severe fall).

Obviously its essential to keep hands warm in winter but one doesn't hear of any accidents attributed to poor braking when using mitts. Just interested in the apparent discrepancy.

PS I do use mitts in winter mainly when walking, and for belaying in colder conditions but my normal HH polar mitts seem too smooth. Once did easy snow climb when my mate had forgotten to bring any gloves, so we shared my dachsteins.....rapidly taking in the rope with waist belay warmed my bare hands.

 Mike Lates 18 Jan 2020
In reply to TobyA:

Do all my climbing in Dachsteins with wrist loops. Steaming hot fingers come out to place gear if necessary then slide easily back into their warm soft bed of wool. Never understood gloves.


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