UKH

Hi All. 

Quick bit of advice needed. Doing some preparation for winter trip(s) up to Scotland. Currently got my 'Mountaineering' set up of Manta Pro's and some G12's.

I'm off for a boot fitting tomorrow for some B3's but I'm unsure of what C3's to match up with them. Obviously I need to take into account the boot-to-crampon fitment, setting that to one side for a moment what crampon would you recommend?

I'm toying between a G14 type or going to a G22.

I'll be mid level climbing this season, III, IV, V, etc with the usual king of my tick list been Point Five Gully.

The questions I'm asking my self are... is there any point in a G14, is it too similar to the G12, (how far can i push a G12) and is a G22 too over kill just yet?

I'm wanting to future proof my set up as much as possible for progression into the higher grades but not wanting to overreach (I'f that makes sense).

Ta all.

Adrian.

Beyond III, IV, V and Point Five. So maybe take your time and don't go for new crampons until/unless you're sure?

G12 are perfect for Point Five

Well that's a simple answer. Winner. Cheers.

Just to quieten down my quizzical curious mind. If you were to upgrade from a G12, what would you choose and at what grade would you expect to do so?

(I'll more than likely stick with a B3 and my G12's. Never had any issues to date withe them).

Less to do with the grade, but rather type of climbing. G20 or G22 would be better for continental style water ice. G12 is great for mixed climbing or Scottish "snow"-ice. G14 is an attempt at being ok-ish at everything, but not really that great in my opinion.

You don't need different crampons but I've inadvertently managed to amass G12s, Rambo 4s and Darts.  I tend to climb IV / V / VI and have done all these grades in all these crampons - they all work.  I tend to prefer a mono point for everything though, so have used the Rambos for Scottish ice, (where a little more weight is no bad thing in my opinion - particularly on long routes,) and the darts for mixed.  If I was buying one technical crampon of these, for what I'm doing, I'd choose darts, (largely because I climb more mixed than ice and they are pretty light,) but you'd struggle to find a 'bad' crampon now, so I would concentrate on the one that is the best fit on the boots you choose.  

In my profile photo I'm wearing G12s. After many ice seasons of doing all my ice climbing in BD Switchblades then Terminators both set up as mono points I went back to using G12s first when I broke my terminators and was waiting for replacements. Then after using them and realising that for 90% of my climbing it made no difference which crampons I used I kept using them quite a lot. The last four winters in the UK I've used mainly G12s or climbing technology Nuptse (rather like G12s but slightly shorter points), but occasionally my Terminators and even more occasionally Edelrid Beast Lite. My conclusion after 27 winters (and some alpine summers!) of crampon use is people on UKC get way to hung up on their crampons! If you want some new ones and can afford it go for it, but they'll probably not turn out so different from your G12s.

One of my friends never upgraded his crampons and boots beyond yr current set up and hes led V 5 in them.

I'd take your time on the winter grades if I was you and remember how much difference conditions make. Both to the climbing difficulty and the avalanche risk throughout the day.

"If you want some new ones and can afford it go for it, but they'll probably not turn out so different from your G12s."

They also tend to better handle a range of different conditions you can find even on a single route, which is a benefit when you are learning to winter climb.

The great thing about the likes of the G14s and Petzl lynx is that they effectively come with a spare set of front points if you set them up as monos (which you will). That measn you can have a set for mixed which you will blunt very quickly, and keep a set nice and sharp for water ice. and to top things off, replacement sets only cost about £20, whereas you need to spend something like £80 for a whole new front end on something like the darts.

of course, being a jack of all trades, master of non means that other crasmpns will be much better at specific things, but you will then want multiple pairs of crampns for different styles of climbing.

I have G14s and am very happy with them. if i had my time again i would get the lynxes purely because they are a bit lighter.

but as others have said, there is no real need to upgrade from the G12 at those grades unless money is no issue. perhaps look into getting a toe bar which you can interchange with the basket depending on which boots you are using them with? 

Cheers all. Huge help! Greatly appreciated. 

Is there much to be gained from moving to a B3/C3 or is the performance difference neglagable when compared B3/C2.

Pretty sure I’m going to get some B3’s (Trango Tower Extreme is a likely but I’ll see when I go for a fitting tomorrow).

(I am trying to minimise expense as much as possible even though I may not sound like I am ????)

I think you’ll notice the difference getting a pair of stiffer B3 boots far more than you will upgrading your crampons. 

Rather than getting something light and sexy, with a thin sole (that in my expirence wear out very fast) like the  Trango Tower. I’d consider some warmer, more durable boots, and more weather proof boots like the Sportiva Nepal Cube or Scarpa Mont Blanc Pro. They’ll probably be a little heavier, but will last a lot longer and keep your feet warmer and dryer for longer.

You'll definitely feel the benefit of stiffer boots but I'd probably agree with the other comments on the G12's. I moved to a pair of Petzl lynx from G12's when I changed boots and the front points on the G12's didn't poke out far enough due to the shape of the toe box. I generally prefer the lynx now, they make me feel more confident. I'm not sure how much of that is mental but they work for me. Nothing wrong with the G12's and like others have said they've been used on harder climbs than I'll ever do.

G20s can ball up really badly in SOME Scottish snow conditions. Wilst I still use mine, a climbing partner and fellow Mountaineering Instructor considered it potentially dangerous enough that he got rid of his pair. Petzl Darts and to a lesser extent G22s, are likely to perform better, but still won't be completely immune from the problem in 'sticky' snow.

G14s are an older design. The Petzl Lynx (assuming that they fit your boots) are a noticeably lighter and arguably a better option.

HTH

Boots obtained after my fitting this eve. Got a pair of Nepal Extremes at a super good price. So couldn’t say no! 

Going to see how well they fit with the G12’s. I’ve read though that due to the toe box they don’t leave much front point. We’ll see tho.

If needs be I’ve done some reading into the Petzl Lynx. And they seem like what I’d go for, for first choice.

I've done more winter climbing in Nepal Extremes fitted with G12s than anything else.

I have been climbing in G14s on mono points for the last 14 years (proper front bail type though, the plastic basket does not appeal due to bulk).

I was on the market for a new pair of crampons last season and was slightly baffled by price and variety of designs.

G22 ( and equivalent) did not appeal due to their bulk when not worn (the foldy thing I don't like...just spikes on all sides).

G20, (and equivalent) replacements of front part too costly.

I ended up buying cheapish G14 again (I also had spare front points I could reuse). The design is not recent but works well with my boots -old Freneys GTX.  I am also used to them. I see nowt wrong with Petzl Lynx or the BD equivalent.

Toby A sums it up well. People on here get way to involved at times. At the grade I operate, they are nice, durable working horse type tools. Going a few grams lighter would not enhance my climbing significantly... or not as much as more dedication would.

I do think the front points on G12's and G14's in both toe bail bar and basket tend to protrude a bit on the short side on the boots I've owned. That said I think grivel tweaked the bail bars a few years ago to improve things and they also offer different bail bars you can switch to now also. The basket style G12 always gave a pretty ideal fitting with nepals and reasonable front point protrusion. 

I use nepal evo gtx's with G12's or BD stingers. Got the stingers as I wanted a mono points for harder mixed. Find they fit really well with the narrow toe bail. They are pretty light and seem to be holding upo well to the usual scottish abuse. With the G12's I have the newmatic type (front basket) and find that the secondary points do not protrude far beyond (if at all) the front of the boot which makes ice climbing in them difficult as the secondary points don't engage much. That said mines are pretty worn so maybe a new pair would be better...