2nd year winter mountaineering - where to go?

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 RedTar 02 Jan 2018
New member here, I'm hoping for some recommendations for where to go this winter.

This will be our second year doing some winter mountaineering. Last year we visited the Cairngorms twice and absolutely loved it. We now want to do more!

We're planning two trips in Feb / March for about 4 days each. We could do with recommendations for areas to visit / routes to look at as novice winter mountaineers. We'll fly in to Inverness and then rent a car - so can travel as needed.

Our previous experience:
* Summer mountaineering / scrambling
* Winter skills course at Glenmore lodge
* Fiacaill ridge in winter with an instructor.
* A few other winter mountaineering days on our own.
* Not much climbing / ropework experience (a bit with an instructor).

What we're looking for:
* Push ourselves further
* Places good for photographers / ridge scrambles

We'll likely hire an instructor for at least one of the trips to improve our skills / learn more ropework. So if something is a bit beyond our experience but doable with an instructor, please let us know. We have axes / crampons / helmets, but no climbing gear (though stuff requiring climbing gear we'd expect to do with an instructor anyway).

So... where's fun / challenging / good? Stay around Cairngorms? Skye? Fort William area? For learning more stuff with ropework would one of them work better?

Thanks!



 summo 02 Jan 2018
In reply to RedTar:

If you are fit and reasonably good on your feet, aim for Ben Nevis with your instructor. They'll pick something based on conditions. Tower, ledge route or castle ridge etc.. you can have a day or two elsewhere to blow the cobwebs away yourself. Glencoe; up lost valley, down lochain, ticking summits (or the opposite way around).
In reply to RedTar:

Glencoe/fort William aria is well worth a visit if you want different scenery, there's a lot of adventure to be had, if you like ridges then routes such as the Aonach Eagach or curved ridge are very good outings and there's a multitude of classics on the ben. It’s a bit further to drive from inverness though.

With regards to ropework, winter climbing is not a great place to learn rope skills cold hands, wet/frozen ropes, limited gear and short days all work against you, much better to practice ropework on conventional summer rock routes than in winter (my opinion)

If you are with an instructor/guide chat to them about what sort of routes you'd like to do, they’ll find you something appropriate for the conditions.

Whatever you end up doing I'm sure it'll be fun!
 pass and peak 02 Jan 2018
In reply to RedTar:

What we're lookingt for:
* Push ourselves further
* Places good for photographers / ridge scrambles

Go where the weather is best and remain flexible is the best way, try to look at the forecast 2 days before and then decide locations/accommodation etc and be prepared to up sticks and shift between East and West coast, say Northern Carngorms and West Highlands etc. For pure winter Mountaineering and ridge scrambles then I would advise west Highlands and NW highlands are best. Glencoe area itself has plenty to go at with the Mamores and the Ben just round the corner. A couple or low grade/easy in terms of technicality for day 1 could be a traverse of Stob Coire nan Lochan in Glencoe, up west ridge and down east, accessed via Corrie nan Lochan path. Or in the Mamores, "Stob Ban" via the col between it and Sgurr an Lubhair, or if your feeling adventurous turn left at the col and do the Devil's ridge part of the "Ring of Steel" on the way to "Sgurr a Mhaim" (can be exposed mind and would be advised to take rope) anyway just a couple of ideas for novice/intermidiate winter walker/mountaineer! Enjoy!!!
 Pay Attention 02 Jan 2018
In reply to pass and peak:

Glencoe , Torridon ....
 Sophie G. 02 Jan 2018
In reply to RedTar:
I strongly agree with Paul the Northerner. Halfway up a frozen cliff in a whiteout and a gale is not the place to learn or practise ropework. Go to the indoor wall and/or sport climbing and/or some benign sea-cliff or roadside crag and get your belaying, changing over, gear-placing, gear-lifting etc. slick and safe *there* before you try doing it in the thick of a Cairngorms winter.
This is worth doing even if you go out with a guide, which like others I think would be a good idea too. The less the guide has to watch your ropework, the more s/he will trust you and be prepared to take you up something genuinely exciting.
A few years back I was recovering from an accident and hired a guide because I wanted to get back on the crag, but had lost a lot of confidence, so I felt almost like I was starting again. The guide was the late lamented Chris Dale, and he was great. We were based at Alan Kimber's place in Fort William, and we had one day on the indoor wall on ropework (because it was useless outside), then one day on The White Line IV,4 on the Ben. Great route, and really good value for money.
It doesn't actually matter whether you hire a Cairngorms guide or a Fort Wiliam guide or a guide from Martin Moran's place in Lochcarron or Mike Lates' in Broadford, since the guide will take you where the conditions are. But that is the basic rule for successful winter adventures in Scotland: keep an open mind about venue, and an even more open mind about route. (It can get really dangerous to fixate on Point Five or whatever. Have dream routes, sure, but don't go out and insist on climbing that route and no other no matter how crowded it is, and no matter how marginal nick it's in.)
Above all, learn to read the meteo really really minutely, because given our Atlantic climate, it's impossible to predict a week in advance, let alone a month, where the good stuff is going to be.
Post edited at 13:50
 Sophie G. 02 Jan 2018
In reply to Sophie G.:

(Correction: I see White Line is now III. Another thing worth not obsessing about is grades )
 Andy Nisbet 02 Jan 2018
In reply to Sophie G.:

It's only III when the blue moon shines. Your grade is much more normal.
 Sophie G. 02 Jan 2018
In reply to Andy Nisbet:

Right, thanks--I remembered it as IV,4, and that was definitely the right grade when we did it, but then the UKC database said III.
 Michael Gordon 02 Jan 2018
In reply to RedTar:

If you've just been to the Cairngorms so far, go somewhere else this time! Much more interesting than going back to the same place over and over again.
 Misha 03 Jan 2018
In reply to RedTar:
Go where the weather, conditions and avalanche risk dictate. For example Ben Nevis is only an hour from Aviemore, Glen Coe and Torridon just under two.
OP RedTar 03 Jan 2018
In reply to RedTar:

Thanks fall for the *amazing* response. I've got a lot of recommendations here to look through!

I don't think we have any particular routes in mind - so are happy to see what the weather dictates. Still, it's good to have an idea of what's about so we can compare / see which might be suitable.

Point taken about learning ropework in terrible conditions. We can perhaps focus on more general skills with some guiding where ropes may be needed.

We've now booked our flights - 4 days in mid Feb and 5 in early March.

What's the best way of finding a guide / instructor? Googling around I've seen quite a range of prices from what seems rather reasonable to really very high!

In terms of going where the conditions are good - are there likely to be b&b's / hostels available that late? When we were in Aviemore last March it seemed they all booked up at least 2 weeks in advance. Or is that more specific to Aviemore?

@Sophie G - somewhat confused - don't instructors all work out of a particular area? Or are they all driving up to 2hrs each way each day chasing the area with good conditions?
 thomm 03 Jan 2018
In reply to RedTar:
You could go back to the Cairngorms but exploring Ben Nevis / Glen Coe might be more fun. You could get straight on some graded routes with an instructor, or buy a rope and have your own cautious adventures. For the latter you might consider the Ring of Steall (in friendly conditions), or Ledge Route, or a traverse of the Douglas Boulder gullies.
 Jim Fraser 04 Jan 2018
In reply to RedTar:

As already stated, weather and conditions are key. That is why this website
http://www.kintailmrt.org.uk/conditions.htm
exists and why guides and instructors get around everywhere. There is nobody making a living here out of "doing a Zermatt" at the bottom of one hill. Rubbish in the west today: get in the van and go east. From Inverness, it's all just out of sight over the hill (apart from Ben Wyvis which is gloriously visible!) and easy to get to.

I suggest that during the first trip you just get the days in. Go up some big hills in winter conditions and get better at it and better at it. Then come back and build on that with something more exciting.
 Michael Gordon 04 Jan 2018
In reply to RedTar:

>
> @Sophie G - somewhat confused - don't instructors all work out of a particular area? Or are they all driving up to 2hrs each way each day chasing the area with good conditions?

Make no mistake. If you book a guide at Glenmore Lodge, you'll almost certainly be climbing primarily in the Cairngorms. If you book someone in the Fort William area, you'll almost certainly be climbing primarily in Glen Coe or on the Ben (possibly Meagaidh if in nick). If you book with Skye Guides, you'll almost certainly be climbing primarily on Skye. If you book Martin Moran you'll almost certainly be climbing primarily in the NW.
 AlH 04 Jan 2018
In reply to RedTar:

Speaking as a freelance Instructor (don't worry, not touting for business- I'm booked solid until April) yes Instructors tend to take people out closer to home but when the only way to get a day out of the conditions dictates I've seen everyone from freelance one man bands to National Centres like Glenmore Lodge and PYB cross the country (east to west or vice versa) to make things work.
Ask on here and you will get lots of first hand recommendations but if you are looking for instruction in rope work in winter look for an MIC or BMG. Bear in mind that if you go for a company that employs someone else there is often a markup on price so the company takes a cut and can afford to employ the Instructor. If you go straight to that person you may get a cheaper price and the same person. You can search for MICs here: http://www.mountain-training.org/associations/ami/find-an-instructor
 Sophie G. 04 Jan 2018
In reply to Michael Gordon:

Yes, guides look first for good conditions near them, to prevent wasting time on the drive. But like Al says, they drive when they need to.
Also true: there can be a lot of variation in conditions even within a relatively small area like Wester Ross. So Liathach can be out of condition while the Fannaichs are in, and vice versa. Or the wind and other factors can make one side of a hill a cornicey, ice-free, deep-wade nightmare, while the other side of the very same hill can be just perfect. This happens all the time, actually.
 Sophie G. 04 Jan 2018

example of micro-picking conditions here: https://www.westcoast-mountainguides.co.uk/snowy-on-castle-ridge-ben-nevis/
Castle Ridge often has a dodgy approach, but Ken knows the hill.

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...