UKC

How easy or hard is it to lose weight? What is a worth while measure anyway? probably a lean or ripped appearance depending on body type.

Reading the NHS thread it sounds so simple eat less calories than you use and your energy reserves (fat) will be reduced.

I managed to get my weight down from 90kg to 85kg and then stopped exercising whilst starting to eat and drink like a PIG result: I am currently back at about 90kg after about 7 weeks. Obviously the energy balance approach is true, but, I suspect it will be much harder and slower getting rid of the weight....

.....either way I am determined to get down to low eighties and have a six pack before my 30th in May....

and invite any other UCKers to join me, I will put a link to a (tasteful) but honest photo of how fat i am and report my progress here along with details of diet and exercise.

Andy

h:183cm
w:91kg
bmi:27.2
waist:34"
pinch an inch?: 2+

In reply to andic:

so you lost 5kg and then let yourself slip back into your bad ways and put it back on within 7 weeks, didnt you think during those 7 weeks "i'm getting fat again" and halt the weight gain

In reply to andic:
How can we trust you when your age in your profile is wrong? I think this is some sort of cunning ID fraud, you'll be asking for mothers maiden names next!

It is pretty tempting as I could do with losing a couple of pounds, not going to get near a reasonable set of scales for a few days though.

In reply to andic:

Losing weight is hard. I had to "make weight" for Judo competitions for years, and hated it. Nursing a single, 200ml glass of water at a party is no fun.

However, I am now absolutely bloated after a stressful year 2012 that involved too much time in front of the computer, not enough exercise, and way too much beer.

After the Christmas and new years eve´s diners I feel and look like a beached whale.

I have therefore decided to drop 10 kg until the summer, but am not looking forward to the process.

Christian

180cm, 100kg, 44years, photo to come....

PS: I had a look at your profile and need to check out the Santee Boulders when I am in San Diego for the next meeting.

In reply to andic: I went from 80.1kgs(BMI 27.7) on 19.10.12 to 69.2kgs(BMI 23.9) on 19.12.12. Back in June I was 85kgs (BMI 29.4 - a porker!).

I did this entirely through a strict diet with very little exercise. I weighed myself every day to keep on top of it.

The most relevant statistic, from what I understand, is the waist - your maximum measurement, not at the slimmest point. Get that down. Mine went down from c100 to 84 cms (c40" to 33"). That's more relevant than BMI because even the cliched "fit but BMI obese" rugby player will have a small waist. It's also, I understand, much more strongly related to heart disease than BMI (I do not have the data to back this up but probably should look into it).

My aim is to weigh 60kgs(BMI 20.8) by the end of March so I aim to lose weight at a slower rate than the last couple of months but to do more climbing and strength training in the meantime.

BTW - you have a BMI of 27.2, are six foot and and a waist of 34" - that suggests to me you've either measured your waist incorrectly or you already are in pretty good shape. You sure you measured right?

In reply to lost1977:

I'm not kidding myself, I let myself put the weight on, not through idleness or ignorance but self indulgence. I know what i have to do to get it off and i'm sure i will. I think it might be interesting to others particularly the fatty bashers of UKC to see how hard it is. Just pointing out the energy/mass balance does not help except to get people out of denial. The main problem is the modern lifestyle. anyway wish me luck

i'll edit my age on the profile too

In reply to andic:

Can't resist an outlet to talk about my current diet.

I think the biggest problem for most of us is not knowledge, but motivation. (although there is some disagreement about whether carbs or fat are good/bad)

I've tried accountability with a mate, even my own mother, and still crashed regularly and binged given half a chance.

Now I keep a daily food plan. I write everything I'm allowed to eat the day before, so I have to stick to the rules I set. Being as specific as possible, while being realistic (eg christmas dinner, minimum potatoes, no seconds of pudding).

Now I look back over a month and see mostly ticks, with a few angry crosses, when I had an extra snack I wasn't allowed. Great motivation and I've lost a few pounds.

In reply to cb294:

how long do you have between weigh in and actually competing in judo. i have seen some pretty impressive weight manipulation in sports before for weight classes

In reply to Mutl3y:

yup, trouser size, actual gut is 37"

In reply to andic: yeah man, trouser size is one big fat lie

Good luck with the diet.

Oh, and another point, as regards motivation - I had a bet with my brother of over £400 as to who could lose the most weight by christmas, and a girlfiend who suggested quite kindly, at the beginning of November, "why don't you give it a go and see what you can achieve if you put your mind to it?" so I did. That helped!

In reply to andic:

I think the biggest problem is motivation. Losing weight for it's own sake wont work...because it hasn't so far :P

Lose weight for a reason. So you can climb a certain climb or project, run a race in a time, enter a competition/race. Think of weight loss as a by product of the goal rather than the main focus.

In reply to andic:

I went from 80kg to 70kg pretty easily and have sustained that for a couple of years. I reduced my alcohol consumption and a few other naughties and did lots of exercise, mainly running, probably 40 miles a week on average.

I run about 50 miles a week these days and maintain weight if I stuff my face and drink, lose weight if I am a bit, and I mean only a bit, more careful with my diet.

In reply to andic: I lost weight from just over 14 1/2 stone 6 years ago to 10 1/2 stone, which was consistent for 18 months, had a shit relationship and dropped to 9 1/2 stone (probably lighter than I was hitting puberty!!!) Since then my weight has fluctuated between 11 st 2 and 12 st 8 (currently 12 st and BMI 25 after christmas).

The way I originally lost weight was by taking a brutully honest look at what I ate... which was neither a particularly healthy nor unhealthy diet... I ate a reasonaly healthy breakfast cereal, but when I weighed the contents I poured into my bowl one morning I realised it was 2 and a half times the 50g recommended portion size (ie 750 cal before leaving the house in the morning). I brought some measuring cups worked out which was 50g...emptied the cereal into a cookie jar and went from there... with other similar solutions across the board, and more excercise (which I had always done plenty of.

Reasons (or excuses) for my current weight...working full time and studying a degree part time...not allowing me as much time to excercise, and not adjusting my food intake accordingly. Knee problems messing up my running. Busier and busier night shifts...leading me to eat more and more crap whilst working them... easy solution for that problem would be appreciated!!

In reply to andic:

As Daniel Heath suggests, keeping a written record of what you eat is a very interesting exercise and a powerful motivator.

You can get fitness diaries (check out Amazon) where you record your food on one page and your fitness on the other. You have the option of noting the calories for the food you eat. Sounds like a ball ache but you don't have to be THAT precise but it is interesting to find out exactly how many calories are in some foods. Did you know that a medium sized banana has 100 calories, for instance?

In reply to Ava Adore:

There are a lot of online/smartphone apps doing the same thing - e.g. MyFitnessPal, MyPlate, SparkPeople, Food Focus, etc. When I've used these I've just used them as 'ballpark' - I've found their main use is in making me accountable.

In reply to andic: I'll join your weight loss Quest...

Currently:
h:180cm (ish) but that's not going to change
w: 91kg
bmi: 28.1 (Ouch...that's high)
Waist: 36"

Target is to be down to 70kg by July, so that's the best part of 3kg a month, not going to be easy!

In reply to carrot_boy (North East Wales MC):

Good luck. No better time than now to do it.

In reply to andic:

I'll join in, though I'm not posting photos or precise measurements. I'm looking to lose 11kg - or rather, I was aiming to do that the week before christmas. Weighed myself on the same scales just before new year and I appear to have lost 2kg over the christmas period! (A neat illustration of the perils of using weight as a guide if you're female...) Let's call it 9kg.

My waist and hips could also do to be 3" slimmer than they currently are.

What happened? I was a pretty consistent weight/size before I met Mr TC. He's of the naturally skinny type, can eat like a horse and it has no effect, etc. My portion size went up, I started eating more carbs than before, and then I changed job to one where I don't walk to work, don't walk anywhere as I work from home... and I stopped exercising as much. Cue lard!

Aiming to be back at my normal size by October at the latest. How hard can it be? (she says, preparing to eat her words (if they're smeared in a healthy portion of nutella, so much the better).

In reply to carrot_boy (North East Wales MC): Hi Carot Boy, have you measured your waist with a tape measure? 36" seems low given your other stats...

In reply to carrot_boy (North East Wales MC):

Yep, add another one to the list! Currently:

h:186cm
w: 92kg
bmi: 26.6
Waist: 35"

My strategy is purely to reduce my portion sizes! I'm 23, and it appears that my metabolism has recently (in the last year) slowed. My aim is to get back into 32" trousers!

In reply to andic: Going to keep my eye on this as I am also trying to loose a bit.

Currently

176CM tall
78.5kg
BMI 25.3
Waist - Unknown at the moment with no access to tape measure.

Would like to get to 70kg, no particular time frame but have have started tracking my calories and exercise and will see how it goes. I am interested to see what other peoples results are

In reply to andic: Stop drinking ,stop eating sugar choc, white bread etc low GM diet needed.You don't even need to exercise.

In reply to andic:

I got posted to the Bruneian jungle in 2004 and contracted dengue fever, lost 3 stone in a week, worked for me but a bit extreme I grant you!

Seriously though, I'm 6ft 3, very broad shouldered and was about 110 kilos so a wee bit overweight. I wanted to get down to about 95 kilos so went on that horizon fast diet.

Basically reduced my calorie intake twice a week to 600 calories then ate normally the other 5 days. I haven't been doing any exercise because I have a buggered foot and in 6 weeks, I've lost 15 kilos even over the chrimbo period.

I really am gobsmacked but eat less, weigh less!

In reply to Denni:

I started an attempt at that, but found it impossible with shift work

I did manage to massively reduce my sugar intake for some time (although bad habits have come back over christmas) after watching the Horizon episode before this one, where they talked about the study where blood sugar levels/estimated age of appearance showed a massive positive correlation.

In reply to Denni:

Impressive weight loss in 6 weeks!

In reply to andic:

Man, good thread. Im in the same boat. Lost loads before Xmas but its taken its toll with a distinct lack of exercise and far too much booze.

So, vital stats
174 cm
178 lbs or 80.50kgs
34 " jeans
26.9 BMI

Goal 25 BMI and 70kgs in three months.

In reply to andic:

I will join in too, looking for some motivation as i eat too many carbs and need to loose a bit of weight.

BMI is 25 but could just do with loosing a few inches on waist and bum!

I have been doing a degree over winter for last 3 years and this is my excuse for weight gain

I have an active job as an instructor often spending up to 5 days in the hills backpacking with groups so just need to moderate my intake and when not working eat less and exercise more.

Currently run around 20 miles per week when not working.

p.s if someone could invent a pill that lets me ignore the existance of chocolate that would help greatly,

In reply to peas65:

I have heard that hypnosis is supposed to work for that, although I think it makes you HATE chocoltae, so you never eat it again...which seems a little harsh, chocolate isn't that bad , after all, really, is it?! :-0

In reply to lost1977:

Depends. Small individual tournaments and league matches up to national level, maybe half an hour between end of weighing in to start of competition. National level tournaments and especially team competitions often have the weigh in the day before.

Normally, I was about 2 or 3 kg over my weight limit after training on Wednesday for the Saturday leaguae matches, and would easily drop this remaining weight during the Thursday and Friday sessions. The hard bit (and what requires by dieting) is to maintain the weight at a level where the limit is within that achievable range.

The remainder of the weight manipulation is of course mainly done by dehydration. I once lost 10kg within six weeks to drop down one weight class for a national level team comp with day-before weighing in. Not fun, and not healthy. After 500 km rolled up in a sleeping bag on the back seat of a car, heater on full blast, driver in his undies, I was still 1 kg over the limit. I paased the weigh in with the help of a sauna, half an hour of jogging, and spending 5 min in a handstand before immediately stepping on the scales (the blood flowing back to the lower part of your body can drop your apparent weight by maybe 20 to 50 g). After that, I drank about 4 liters of isotonic mineral drink over the next few hours without having to go to the loo. The other serious competitors in this weight class were also 4 to 5kg over the limit during actual competition at that tournament.

As I said, not healthy. To prevent these practises very big tournaments like the Olympics (as far as I recall) therefore have a weigh in and weigh out, so that you have to meet yout limit after the competition, too.

Anyway, from my current state I believe I can drop 10 kg simply by cutting out the alcohol and stopping to eat the junk served by our university canteen. The trick is motivation.

CB

In reply to Tall Clare:

11kg by October? I was about to say that that was PLENTY of time. Then I actually looked up how many pounds (I'm sorry, I still think in stones and pounds) and realise that's a stone and a half. Scrape that Nutella off your words, lady .

In reply to peas65:

I gave up chocolate for Lent a few years back. For all that time, I CRAVED chocolate but was determined to keep going. Easter finally came and I wolfed down chocolate. Oh, it was lovely. And then after that I didn't actually bother with it much for ages. It kinda broke the spell. Did the same thing with red meat the following year.

In reply to Ava Adore:

Exactly! That's why me saying 'by April' or similar would be foolish. However, I have a new mountain bike, a new gym programme and some new approaches to home working to spur me on. That, and I don't want to look like a total pie-eater when I get married.

In reply to Ava Adore:

p.s. It's actually 9, it seems, as somehow I lost 2kg over Christmas without even contracting Norovirus... most odd. How clothes fit is going to be a more useful measure, I think.

In reply to Daniel Heath:


That's what I thought! I thought I had mis weighed myself at the start or read the scales wrong but honestly, it works. (for me anyway)

Loads about it on e net and the Horizon programme was really good.
Don't get me wrong, going from 2500-2800 cals a day down to 600 is quite punishing if you like your food.

I bought a weight watchers calorie counter book and worked out a meal plan for the 2 days.
I measured out my semi skimmed milk for the day for my coffee which I can't life without, then looked at all the things I like to eat and went from there.

It's not a lot of food when you consider an egg on dry wholemeal bread is 200 calories and my milk for the day was about 100 cals so that's half my allowance already gone.

If you can work it out for yourself so you can "survive" the day, then it is an easy way to lose weight.

Den

In reply to Ava Adore:

Yes totally understand that, i definatly binge f i dont eat any of it for ages, but when i eat some i want to eat more. Its kind of a self perpetuating issue!

Anyway i have self control for everything else, perhaps except cheese- which is also being cut down.

In reply to andic:

I'm in

h ; 185
w ; 85.5 was 80 before christmas
waist 36"
bmi erm i'll get back to you

i'm normaly quite active at work carrying a 16 kilo tool box up and down stairs

but sitting at home for a week and a half has taken its toll, and i've been in need of an incentive for a while

on the chocolate front, get yourself a chocolate migraine trigger, it stops being a food, though i can now smell someone eating chocolate at 3 feet

In reply to yeti: Your bmi is 24.98.

Waist watchers: it really is worth actually measuring your stomach. Your trouser size is little use even as a guide. At my biggest I was 41" but have never worn trousers bigger than 36". It's seeing that number come down that's given me the most satisfaction about losing weight.

Good luck everyone.

In reply to andic:

Try Norovirus mate, I've lost 9lbs in 48 hours.

In reply to andic: Ive just started 5 months contest prep so Ill be cutting fat while maintaining decent strength

In reply to bouldery bits:
Most of that will be water unfortunately, in spite of a few days fasting and some vigorous exercise for the abs. :o/

In reply to andic:

Interesting thread. I need to lose some weight myself... I went from 78kg on the 14th of December, to 82kg on the 31st. I have never been this heavy before, it's new territory, gotta do something about it...

In reply to andic: was 6' 2" and 100kg and started cycling.in 3 months got to 90 kg

get a bike and sign up to strava

In reply to mark s: i dont see the fascination with bmi.i was nearly obese with a 33" waist !!!

In reply to mark s: my BMI says im overweight for my height, I think its quite an achievement to how much muscle ive gained

In reply to andic: This thread is such a coincidence. I have just been talking about training and how im going to improve. Two things were highlighted: 1. core strength 2. overweight. I weighed 82kg 2 years ago but have had a forearm muscle injury and some back problems (hopefully now a thing of the past) and although im climbing nearly as hard as I did in 2010 i weigh 95kg...and im putting porkyness down to a current finger injury

So, im in on your plan here.

H: 189cm
w: 95kg
BMI: no idea
Waist: 34"
PAI: no idea

The goal is 80kg

In reply to eugeneth:

Finger injury - probably one of the best excuses for being overweight I've heard :-P

In reply to andic: I will join you as well, I'm a bit more rounded than I was. I'm thinking a no fads, cut down the crap and get off my bum more often approach.

In reply to andic:

I'm in as well. After a year of struggling with a shoulder injury I have now been fixed via surgery, but the year of low exercise has taken it's toll - sideways.

h: 178
w: 85kg
Waist: 36-38"

Would like to get to 12st... so 10kg to lose...

In reply to andic: Walk everywhere. Eat lots of unprocessewd food at meal times.

In reply to andic: Why not!

height: 179cm
weight; 179 lbs (nice symmetry - not), or 81.5kg
waist: just measured at 37 inches (despite being a 34 waist in jeans/trousers)
bmi: 25.3 (which just puts me into the obese range!)

In reply to Graham Mck:

It is good to see this thread. I'm sure we would all like to lose a wee bit of weight, I could do with losing a tiny bit more after the chrimbo excess, especially as I was really good before chrimbo with the 5;2 fasting.

UKC Fat/climbing camp anyone ;0)

In reply to andic:

I actually need to lose about 4st 7lbs to get back to my snake like figure I had when I was just breaking the E grades but I'm going to take it in three 20lb chunks. I lost 2st last year in about four months but then injured myself and got put on muscle relaxants and anti-depressants which always make me gain lots of weight very fast.

So I'm aiming for 20lbs lighter by Good Friday and my tools will be MyFitnessPal, intermittent fasting, 5x30 and reactivating my Virgin Active membership. I am also going to get back into regular meditation to try and avoid going back on the anti-depressants as well, those things make me feel like shit.

It will probably last about a fortnight...

In reply to Tall Clare:

I will check a few of those out.

Cheers

In reply to andic:

Diets tend not to work, and neither do targets. Anything premised on denial tends to be a short-term fix. What is needed is usually a long-term reappraisal of how you see food.

I lost 4 stone last year after reading this http://allencarr.com/32/easyweigh-to-lose-weight. I'm fairly confident that it will stay off.

In reply to Clarence:

What is 5x30?

In reply to Tall Clare: I think its half an hour of exercise 5 times a week?

In reply to marsbar:

Yes that's the puppy, at least 5 sessions of 30 mins or more vigorous exercise. I use http://www.activederbyshire.co.uk/ to log my exercise, because I'm odd like that.

In reply to Clarence: Seems like a good idea. I wanted to reply 150, but thought I should stop being a geeky smart arse.

In reply to Jamie Bankhead: I read that and thought of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Carr

D'oh.

In reply to marsbar:

Haha!

Clarence, that makes sense.

In reply to marsbar:

THAT Alan Carr only helps me lose weight inasmuch as his TV show makes me want to vommit.

In reply to Graham Mck:

It just puts you in the over weight category, you have a way to go before you are officially obese!

In reply to Jamie Bankhead:
Well done on the weight loss Jamie. Have you noticed any difference in yr rock climbing grade? I would think that amount weight loss could translate in an increase of atleast 1-2 UK rock climbing grades.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

It's made a huge difference. I'd put on weight to the point where I was genuinely corpulent and struggling on severes. Last summer I led a number of HVS and was at one point eyeing-up a first E1. This didn't happen but I don't think it's too far off..

In reply to Jamie Bankhead:
nice one, speaking as someone else who has heavy tendencies it feels good to get back some fitness doesn't it. I have a bit over a stone to loose at the moment although I'm actually not too overweight (I've been two stone heavier before!)

I'm trying to get fit as well which I find makes a big difference especially around the HVS/E1 sort of mark for me.

I was able to lead many VS pretty consistently being heavier though, probably the odd HVS but I can't mind exactly.

In reply to The New NickB:

Yes thankfully got that a bit wrong. However you've not seen my stomach Not a pretty sight.

In reply to andic: I counted calories for a bit and slimmed down to about 67-68kg from about 73-75 ish. I found the trick is to always be a bit peckish.

In reply to andic:

I too could do with loosing a few pounds target is 65kg

Height 172cm
Weight 73kg 161lb
Bmi 24.68
waist 34"
pai 2"

plan to cut out the bacon butties, get back to climbing regularly, and continue to cycle a lot

In reply to CurlyStevo:


A good friend of mine lost about 5 stone last year (immense effort) and went from struggling on VS/HVS territory to leading his first E3 before the year was out. His previous high point was E1.

All the conversation about BMI - would sharing body fat percentages be more useful, or are these even more prone to inaccuracy and fluctuation? I know hydration levels can affect them massively.

Any thoughts?

Incidentally, I've just started the 5:2 thing as well. 650 calories yesterday (450 net after exercise) and I fely pretty ropey first thing this morning, better now. I can't wait until my next fasting day....

Currently:

6ft 0"
Weight - 85kg (wearing gym stuff)
Waist - 35" (shocked it's that much)
BMI - 25.6

In reply to Tall Clare: My thoughts are that it's useful but might overcomplicate this thread as there are a whole bunch of ways of estimating it - calipers, covert bailey, the waist neck formula etc. and a lot of folk won't bother).

Only thing BMI is useful for, in my opinion, is drawing an equivalence across people of different heights. My 70kgs isn't the same as someone a foot taller than me. I find it useful but only so much.

In reply to andic:

I'll join in with this, I'm about a stone heavier than I was this time last year.

My vital stats:

h: 165.5cm (that half cm is important!)
w: 71.6kg
bmi: 26.1
waist: 32"
pinch an inch: Too much.

I struggle with weight control due to my crazy thyroid, previously it's been underactive yet at the last blood test (before Christmas) they told me it might be over medicated.

As I've put weight on recently they didn't want to reduce my dosage so I've been poked with a needle again today to double check.

Exercise wise I boulder a couple of times a week indoor (though not at a brilliantly high level, about v4/5) and lead indoor once a week. Then I like to get out and about when the weather is nice, because I'm a wimp and melt when it's wet.

I also cycle to/from work most days but fell out of the habit over xmas due to it being below -3. It's roughly 11miles each way.

I'm aiming to kick the junk food to the curb (he says after scoffing a packet of delicious McCoys) and get back on the bike every day (he says after driving in today).

I'd like to drop close to a stone. That puts me in the upper end of my BMI but I personally believe that's when I look healthier (I've been down to the 19/20 end and I look ill).

I'll post up a pic too of the gut when I'm not in work, they might start looking at me funny otherwise.

If anyone else is in Leeds we could sort out a fitness climbing session at any of the many walls

In reply to Tall Clare:

I dont set much store by BMI, perhaps it is a useful tool for large populations eg regions of the UK or countries, where the athletic minority are quite insignificant but here on a forum for supposedly active types?

I once calculated my body fat from measurements to be about 18% I have no idea how accurate that is. I do think that to have any kind of muscle definition one needs to be down to about 10% body fat hence my wish to lose about 8 kilos in 91. If i can take my shirt of without embarrassment ill be satisfies im not too fat whatever my BMI may say!

In reply to Daniel Heath: The comment was made very tongue-in-cheek, perhaps a was in order. On a more serious note acquiring a finger injury while being heavily overweight is entirely plausible just due to the excess strain you are placing on you joints, tendons and ligaments

In reply to JimboWizbo: If I'm always peckish I eat and make bad choices. Trick for me is not to have any rubbish food lying about, and to eat loads of good stuff so I'm not hungry. I think this might be more a female thing though.

In reply to andic:

as promised/threatened: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23995729/WP_20130103_002-1.jpg

In reply to andic: I may well join you, I've become a bit of a porker myself, I shall pop out tomorrow & purchase some scales.
I propose a title for our endeavours "the ukc porkathon"

Skara

In reply to andic: I'll join too

Half way through my diet.....

started at 86Kg in october and was edging into not fitting my 32" jeans. Rather than buy 34" jeans I started to curb the sugers and binging.

So, vital stats
175 cm
79.50kgs
32" (although just bought some 30" which fit'ok')jeans
25.8 BMI
20.5% body fat (I know this varies, but i graph it and calculate a value I use to see progress).

Goal 72kgs, at a rate of .5kgs per week, so 15 weeks time. The secondry aim is to be in the low teens of body fat and not loose too much muscule, hence the 'slow' rate of weight loss.

On the climbing front; I felt very comfortable on some HVS's in cornwall over christmas which I'm sure would have been scary 6 months ago, and the conditions weren't great to say the least, so I think I'm seeing the results.

In reply to fraserbarrett:

A very effective way is to get Mumps, which I did a year ago. I went from 10 stone 4 lbs (my natural weight, with no excess flab) to 9 stone 7 lbs in two weeks of sweating, without any effort at all. But I can't say: "no sweat"!

In reply to fraserbarrett:

Yes as my weight has varied so has my climbing ability, I gave up booze last spring, the weight fell off and I was climbing vile a daemon

In reply to andic:
Like, like a daemon of course, bloody touchpads

In reply to andic:


I'm also in, i've noticed the christmas pounds piling up and would like to get back to climbing harder and not being depressed about tight jeans/impending wedding dress.

I'm thinking of doing the intermittent fasting diet as my willpower is low so doing a diet day twice a week sounds quite appealing. I climb three times a week (on a good week) and also do a circuits class one a week plus walking/cycling/garden slaving at the weekends.

Anyway, this is me:

h: 177 cm
w: 65.8 kg
waist: 29 inches
body fat %: lots (not sure)

target: 59 kg.

In reply to vahill21:

You're my height, you have a 29" waist, you weigh 65.8kg - I'd be surprised if your body fat percentage was particularly high.

In reply to Tall Clare:

Hum, you would think. Last time it was measured properly (a couple of years ago when i was almost exactly as heavy), it was 30 something %. Basically all my weight is concentrated on my arse which is helpful when you fall off bouldering but i wouldn't mind being somewhat more proportionate.

In reply to andic:

h: 190cm
w: 72kg
bmi 19.9
waist: 31"

It's 11.45 and I've had a cup of tea so far today, just waiting for the chippy to open for lunch. Can't decide on pie or fish with my chips though.

In reply to andic: count me in on the fat club.
Ht 187
Wt 86kg
Wst 36 inches at the fattest bit! (although fit into 32inch jeans fine!)

Goals actually have a 32inch waist and to get to 80kg and then reassess how it's effecting my climbing and also how I look (as like most of us in the real world of non climbers I'm not fat.)

In reply to vahill21:

It's a funny one, this weight/height thing. The weight I'm aiming to get down to is a lot more than your current weight, but I know if I go much under that then I start to look a bit wasted.

In reply to Tall Clare:


It is odd, i agree. When i was much much younger than today, i used to weigh about 9 stone and i looked pretty much the same as now, but with a smaller bum and hips. Mind you, that was at uni when my diet was basically toast and vodka which isn't how i'm planning to loose weight this time round...

Hopefully, if i do manage to loose any weight (doubtful at the moment as we still have half a stilton in the fridge) it'll come off where i'd like it to.

In reply to vahill21:

Haha, I was 9.5 stone for years... but I didn't do any exercise, ate erratically, and didn't have much muscle. I then started exercising and got a bit musclier. I'm now just a mass of tub where muscle once was... argh. Off for a run, I think.

In reply to vahill21: It always comes off my boobs first and my bum last

In reply to Tall Clare:

Ditto. Back then my only exercise was turning pages on whatever book i was reading and dancing like a lunatic (still two of my favourite activities).

I hate running. I wish i could love it but I just don't. I'm thinking about starting to try running again but instead of focusing on the negative (i hate it, my knees hurt, my ankles hurt, i can't breathe, i'm going to be sick etc) I might try focusing on the positive (if i can think of any).

Anyway, hope your run was good! Here's to the anti-tub squad

In reply to marsbar:

Life is UNFAIR.

In reply to vahill21: I've found that the best exercise (for me personally) to lose weight is to do high intensity intervals. So warm up for 2-3mins then whatever exercise you choose (running, biking, rowing or whatever) then really go all out for 30 seconds and then go slow for 60-90 secs. Repeat 8x then 2-3mins to cool down. By the time you are doing the final all out reps you should be feeling almost sick or you're not pushing hard enough.

Only takes 20mins and if you hate running you can do it with any other exercise. Only need to do this around 3x a week and the other days, just a 10minute circuit of 50 secs on and 10 secs off doing things like burpees, push ups, dips, weights.

If I'm wanting to lose weight just eat sensibly and do the above and the weight comes off fast.

My problem is that I find it very hard to eat sensibly

In reply to Sonya Mc:

Sounds like excellent advice, I shall give the interval training a go. I live in the middle of no where and get slightly scared about running in woods in the dark after work on my own (have watched too many crime dramas this winter) so this sounds like a very practical solution. Thanks!

In reply to andic:

There is a down side to losing weight. Before I had surgery last year my consultant advised me to lose half a stone, so over an eight week run up to the operation I gave up drinking alcohol which resulted in my losing the required half stone. Following sugery I lost another stone, but over that last month have gradually increased weight again by half a stone, so I am effectively a stone lighter than I started out with, and I seem to have levelled out at that.

The downside is that none of my trousers fit me any more! My belts are now too big and I spend most of my time trying to stop my trousers finishing up half way down my legs! Even my underpants hang loose now.

So be warned, losing weight can damage your wardrobe.

In reply to Trangia:

It's okay somewhere in my Granddad's garage is a tool, which looks like the offspring of a cartwheel and a pair of pliers, for making new holes in belts.

In reply to andic:

Exercise over the weekend: Bouldering Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
Exercise today: 11 miles of cycling, Climbing indoor at The Leeds Wall and then a 2 mile cycle back to the train station.

Food eaten over the weekend: A takeaway burger on Friday night, Lots of chocolates from Christmas and a healthy-ish meal on Saturday/Sunday.

Food eaten today: Healthy sandwich...then felt hungry so ran out and bought a bag of crisps. They're posh crisps though so that makes them healthy right?

I'm not doing too well really...

In reply to Kieran_John: Dude, dont feel too bad about yourself as you are did much more than me. My challenge starts today. Off to the gym later today for a 7km run to ease back into the roove and then a few weights afterwards.

In reply to Kieran_John:
Well done mate,

I managed to get to the gym most days last week: I usually do either 30 min running some abs and 15 min on the stair master to kill my thighs, or a session of power/compound lifts.

Starting today I will try to get in 4 mornings to train with weights and three to four times a week evenings/week ends to do some running/swimming/class with the Mrs who needs the encouragement.

Diet wise I have stopped drinking, though I will allow myself a coupe of pints or some wine over the weekend it will be very limited. I am making an effort to eat a decent breakfast that fills me up till lunch medium lunch (eg spag bol) and a frugal supper (cereal, soup or an "on toast")

In reply to andic:
I managed to lose 1 3/4lbs this morning by taking a leak. Which really goes to show that when you weigh yourself is pretty important!

In reply to Reach>Talent: Agreed. I take measurements morning and night. Some mornings I can weight as much as 2lbs less than the night before.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers: I'm on a fitness/weight loss kick - no beer, eating properly, lots of fruit etc etc. Started on Jan 2 and since then have run 4, 4.5 and 7 miles and cycled 50. Weighed myself on 2/1 and then today (5 days later). Total weight loss? Nowt.

Now I know I'm doing the right things and I know it'll work eventually (I've done it before and dropped 25-30lbs) but you can really see why people lose motivation and jack it in.

In reply to Reach>Talent:

Here is a question if I weigh myself before and after a session on the treadmill there can be as much as 800g weight loss during exercise i assume that is due to over a pint of sweat, is that right?

In reply to andic:

Yep - if I ever want a motivation boost I weight myself after exercise. But of course the real test is whether your clothes get looser!

In reply to andic:

Its a good question. After I get to 5km I sweat like crazy and my back and arms/legs drip - strange, my head never does. Also, how much loss of weight could you attribute to water vapour from breathing considering the amount of water lost this way and the increased number of breaths taken?

I wonder, of the weight loss of each 1km run at a certain pace and taking the +/- of an individual's own physiology, how much would actually be fat burned in grams. If this could be calculated, how much more motivational would this be?

In reply to andy:

The clothes test is the one for me. Two hefty gym sessions and a pleasant walk since the 2nd here.

In reply to andy:

I can "lose" half a stone over a big hill day, but I guess it's all about percentages!

i've "lost" half a stone in a sauna but it's just water, your weight will fluctuate just keep the trend downwards

In reply to andic:

Looks like a fat club might be a good idea for all the interest on this thread!

In reply to lost1977:

One of my house mates at Uni was a boxer and could lose weight frighteningly quickly. Basically he would eat nothing but protein and up the aerobic exercise. I've tried it myself once or twice if i'm feeling chubby. Eat mainly protien rich food and do more exercice can shift half a stone in a couple of weeks. It usually goes back on once you revert to normal

In reply to doz generale:

friends have manipulated there weight by 5-7kg with ease to make competition weigh ins (normally would have put most of it back on by the time they actually compete)

In reply to lost1977:

and this is done over the space of a couple of days normally

In reply to andic: I did some calorie controlled dieting then moved in to a ADF diet before a trip. Lost 10kg in 8 weeks. Managed to put 3kg back on since 1st December though, lost the motivation post-trip!

My goal for 2013 is to get down to 70kg from a current 78kg. Hopefully will get some motivation soon, but this weather is a killer for sticking to a diet!

In reply to andic: Great thread, so here goes.
Height - 180cm
Weight - 94k
So, a good 9 kilos over where I would like to be. I enjoy my food and a glass of wine or three, so think that the 5/2 fasting thing might be good, as well as cutting down the wine. Also need to up the exercise side of things.
Would like to think by Easter could be at 85 kilos.
Jerry

In reply to andic:

Try the 5.2 diet I lost quite a bit of weight this way.

In reply to andic: Trying this intermittent fasting for the first time today...had 1 slice brown toast (no butter/spread) and a boiled egg for breakfast, 1 slice brown toast (no butter/spread) with marmite for lunch and fish with vegatables for dinner... think I can still get a cup of tea with milk out of my 500 calories. But I am soooooooo hungry right now

h:173cm
w:75kg
bmi:25.16

In reply to SAF:

My second week of it and it's noticeably easier. It seems you get used to the hungry feeling and getting a pattern to what you eat.

I am also calorie counting generally to try to keep down to a certain low'ish level on my feeding days. I appreciate part of the point of the 5:2 diet is you can supposedly eat what you want on your feeding days but I was consuming too much anyway (incl alcohol) so I'm using it as motivation to instil some good habits.

I've also upped my exercise levels a little though not greatly as, having tried once, I am not sure I could do much on my fasting days - at least not now, perhaps you get used to it.

I've lost a bit of weight already and looking visibly better and feel more healthy even on my fasting days.

I think I like my food too much to get an eating disorder from this but I do worry a bit about what it could do to some people. It takes quite a bit of willpower which I suspect could turn into obsession about not eating generally...

In reply to SAF:

If hunger is a massive problem, why not try upping the amount of calories you allow yourself? Any diet that leaves you too hungry is probably going to be unsustainable.

What about something like allow yourself 700 cals this week, then down to 600 next, then 500 the week after?

In reply to joel182:


I agree, it definitely gets easier so why not take it slightly easy initially. Last week I felt quite distracted and low concentration for a lot of the time, on top of the hunger, already much better.

In reply to Skyfall: Read someone that the hunger pangs come in waves, and it's certainely eased off consdierably now.

I am not calorie counting on the other days, but will be cutting alcohol out this month, I didn't drink much, in the scheme, of things over christmas/new year due to working most of it, but prior to christmas my intake had crept up and so had my weight.
One thing I am watching is my sugar intake. The horizon episode (the week before the fasting one, I think) which was about looking younger, highlighted sugar as a major cause of aging, now I'm not being vain (maybe I am a little bit) but the results of the study they showed were fairly shocking, and if sugar can have that kind of impact visually then the damage inside can be assumed to be equally bad. I have a very sweet tooth, so this is the hard bit for me. But I desperately don't want to end up a type II diabetic (oozing swollen legs...yuk, yuk, yuk!!!), so I have to do something drastic to cut my, at times, quite shocking sugar intake.

In reply to andic: At 19 stone, I'm probably the world's fattest climber.

In reply to homing-penguin:

Depends how tall you are. If you're 7 and a half foot, you're doing well! If you're 5 foot maybe less so :p

In reply to the tubbies: I don't really understand kg, but I reckon I ned to get 2 stone (is that about 12kg?) by the beginning of May as I will hopefully have a date with a bloke called Fred.

To all of you who've dropped half a stone in the first week - feck off.

I've now run 20 and a bit miles and cycled 50 miles over 5 sessions in 6 days. I've drunk no alcohol, eaten very sensibly and have lost pretty much no weight at all. Run tonight felt less painful than last week, and that was on the back of an accidental 50 mile bike ride yesterday, but it would be nice to lose just a bit of weight!

In reply to SAF:

Hadn't heard that about sugar intake. But, yes, my calorie counting largely amounts to cutting back on alcohol as I didn't eat too badly anyway (at least I have never snacked between meals and don't stuff muy face with chocolate etc). By cutting back on booze and eating just a bit more healthily my calorie intake has dropped quite easily to a level that I ought to lose weight (slowly) regardless as to the IF exercise.

In reply to andic: I usually go through an annual cycle of putting on weight of up to 10 kg (from 75kg climbing weight to 85kg when I have let it go to rat sh1t) this is usually through hitting an injury, getting ill or being too busy with work. Shifting the weight takes time, but I have found it is best not to rush it as if you do you lose energy, muscle mass and will to live.

Doing 3-4 x 30 minute aerobic sessions a week and reducing mid-week booze and junk food seems to work and for me and will shift it in 1-2 months.. There is usually a lag at the beginning where nothing seems to change and then everything starts to get easier and helps with the motivation. shifting the weight normally improves my bouldering grade by 1-2 (V grades from 4 to 6ish) and sports grade 3-4' so it's definitely worth it for me. I am just starting to go through the process again so I feel your pain....

The one thing I have discovered is that fasting does make it hard to sleep whereas this is not normally a problem for me at all...

In reply to andic:

I'm up for it too. I've been training regularly for the past 6 months (three runs a week, plus a bit of bouldering) but eating like a junk crazed pig the entire time, and then I gave into Christmas. So I've got fitter but fatter!

I use www.fatsecret.co.uk with an app on my phone. It's a food, exercise and weight diary with a MASSIVE database of foodstuffs. If I'm honest about putting in everything I eat it does work as the angel sat on your shoulder and keeps me in line.

My vitals:

Height: 1.85cm
Weight: 94kg
Waist: 35"
BMI: 27.5

Weekly plan is;

3 x Bouldering Sessions
1 x Run
1 x 1-2hr MTB ride
1 x Resistance (targeting muscles that aren't climbing specific)

In reply to andy:


Is this a lot more excercise/ new programme compared to normal? In which case your muscles have probably been retaining more water than normal, hence no weight loss.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/406332-do-muscles-retain-water-after-a-ne...

What have you eaten (honestly) in those 6 days, I would imagine you have been quite hungry, I know I would have been, so that could be another factor.

I read somewhere in a weightloss programme that the most frequent you should weigh yourself is every two weeks, otherwise you'll beat yourself up with weeks like these (or in the case of females, naturally monthly fluctuations)and lose motivation. If you leave it a few weeks carry on excercising as you are, then weigh yourself, if you haven't lost then, then you probably need to take a honest look at your diet/portion sizes, but I doubt that will be neccesary This bit of advice is definately "do as I say not as I do"...I have to put the bathroom scales up in to attic to stop me weighing my self too often.

In reply to Skyfall:

I have been drinking black tea in the office recently, it is the only way i can take it without sugar, and I have noticed that I am less peckish yesterday I was not hungry by 2:30pm when i decided it would be prudent to eat something as i intended to go for a run after work.

I have heard that girls in some region of china that drink a lot of poo-er chai ie black tea are famous for being skinny, and i think I remember reading about an american study on this too

For anyone also trying IF whether using the 5:2 regime or other....

How do you feel the day after a fasting day? I can cope fine with the fasting during the day itself but I don't sleep very well that night and feel very ropey the next day (not just as a result of lack of sleep but also like I've hit the wall - blood sugars?). I'm thinking of adjusting how I eat during my fasting day and load my calory intake (fwiw) towards the end of the day so that I don't go to bed quite so hungry.

Any thoughts/experience?

In reply to Skyfall: I had a great nights sleep last night after fasting yesterday, but then i have been working shifts for 7 years, so my body is use to fluctuating blood glucose levels, and going to bed hungry after night shifts.

You can often pick up a decent Blood glucose kit from boots for under a tenner when they have a deal on, unfourtunatley they only come with a few test strips, so the manufacturers then rip you off for a supply of test strips...I have a test kit that lives in my first aid kit in the car, and I am tempted to use it on my next fasting day out of curosity!!!

In reply to SAF:

Are you saying you think it might be blood sugars? Apart from making me feel really crappy the next day, is that actually a problem? It seems to take me msot of the day to start feeling 'normal' again, which isn't great.

In reply to Skyfall:

You suggested in your previous post that you thought it might be blood sugars, I just suggested a means by which you could establish this.

Since one of the aims of intermittent fasting seems to be to lower blood glucose levels, logically it is worth considering!!!

In reply to Skyfall:

I've been doing the 5:2 diet and can't say I've noticed it effecting my sleep.

One of the things that has suprised me is that the day after a fast day I generally wake up not hungry like my appetite has reset overnight.

I've been getting most of my 600 kcals in an evening meal, and include quite a lot of veg to bulk this out, so maybe this is easier/better than spreading the calories over the day.

In reply to SAF:


Well obviously I did but from your post about testing strips I was wondering if you had some medical background and whether you had some more insight. Not meaning to be annoying!


In all seriousness, I haven't read up on the science behind it and am realising I probably should...

In reply to andic:

if you want your abs through don't drink alcohol

plenty of cardio too .. but i reckon slim and althetic rather than skinny is the way to go.. all influenced by body type of as well as life style

dieting must be horried... just exercuise more and have an averagely health diet

In reply to andic:

On the topic of fasting I have read that just skipping breakfast can be good enough. Eat in the evening at 6 and then don't eat until 12 the next day you're doing 18 hours without food. But I think this may be more to do with the calorie deficit it produces.

In reply to RFWilkie:


Thanks - that's my next plan of action. So far I've been spreading them fairlu evenly over the day but, as I don't actually seem to have a great problem with the fasting side of things, I will load them towards the end next time (Thursday) and hope that improves things.

In reply to Skyfall:
I do have some medical background, but given I now very little about you then I'm not going try to reach any conclusions about why who may feel a certain way, you expressed concerns about blood glucose levels, the established and easiest way to measure them is a blood glucose monitor... unless you want to go down the route of fasting glucose tests with the practice nurse at your GP.

Here is a little infomation on the 5:2 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/9480451/The-52-diet-can-it-help-you-lo...

I have done a journal search and found lots on ADF, but nothing on 5:2, figured I'd find something out before starting it.

Also the sugar stuff from the "truth about looking younger" horizon episode can be found in this article, more detail in new scientist, but haven't worked out how to get the full article without paying yet!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18924204

In reply to SAF:

More than I've been doing in December (where I did almost nothing), but not a massive increase (I cycle with the club most Sundays and probably get at least one run in).


No, I've eaten ok - cereal/fruit for breakfast, sandwich (no butter, turkey/tuna/salad)/soup (sometimes a sneaky bag of crisps, but only 175cals) for lunch, baked spud/fish/chicken/salad for tea. Fruit for snacks, nothing else really


Absolutely - I lost a similar amount (maybe a bit more) than this a few years ago and I hardly weighed myself at all - just got (noticeably) better a riding my bike up hills and my "easy pace' runs went from 8:30min miles to 7:15. Just checked back at my exercise log and January 09 (when I last did this) I was actually cycling a bit less and running at the same pace - so it's all on track. Just need to stay off the scales!

Nearly died on my arse on the bike on Sunday though - cafe stop, no toasted teacakes only big slices of sponge so just had a brew. In serious trouble after 3 1/2 hours on just water!

In reply to andic: lost about 10kg from spring last year. Cut out processed food in my diet, cycled to work and started running. I didn't/don't think of it as a diet, more that I'm eating healthily all (read: most!) of the time. For me the combination of eating more healthily and excercise was the ticket. I was motivated to lose weight for climbing initially, but I've seen so many other benefits that it's a motivation in itself now. Good luck!

In reply to SAF:
Does anyone actually believe that eating whatever you like is healthy or that some kind of fasting routine is actually maintainable in the long term? Poppycock I say!

In reply to alooker:
snap eating healthy, no processed, more exercise, less carbs (but still a reasonable amount) more healthy fats and protein worked a treat for me!.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Im inclined to agree. In my opinion, dieting is actually a bad thing.

Simply cut crisps, beer, fizzy crap, remove processed whites and go with wholemeal and up the exercise.

Isnt this all about moderation, common sense and not making yourself ill or miserable in the process?

In reply to CurlyStevo:

I understand what your saying, just the science behind fasting is very different to calorie restriction...the telegraph article gives a good summary of the horizon episode that covers this...it's not simply about weight loss and appearance, but more to do with reduced risk of type II diabetes, cancers, and alzeihmers.

Whether it is maintainable in th shortcome alongside shift work is the challenge at the moment, but I won't now without trying.

In reply to andic:

Fat people skip breakfast. Fact.

In reply to andy:

What does that 'really' mean? Have you eaten anything else or not? (hmmm... sounds very stern and judgemental!) *Whips glasses off and flings long, silky hair out of her stern bun*

In reply to knighty:

Apart from the ones who start every day with a fry-up!!!

In reply to andic: try yerba mate,,,, south american drink traditional super good for you and helps weight loss,,, try it its really nice, different flavour and buzz compaired to coffee or tea but i really liked it... stopped drinking it as i need to gain weight,,,, not that it made me skinny, ive always been well skinny just want to gain weight. 6ft 2,, 70 kg

In reply to andic: A good dose of worms, norovirus, or typhoid can help. Seriously though look up yerba mate,

In reply to SAF:
"but more to do with reduced risk of type II diabetes, cancers, and alzeihmers."

Perhaps just eating more healthily (I suggest you research on what a healthy diet is!) would give you all this and more, and be maintainable!

I'm reading this next!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Good-Calories-Bad-Controversial-Science/dp/14000334...

I'm currently reading this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Deep-Nutrition-Your-Genes-Traditional/dp/0615228380...

I'm not saying these books are completely right or factual but they are rather an eye opener!

In reply to CurlyStevo: Did you watch the horizon documentary, and read any of the articles related to it? It compared fasting to a normal healthy diet, as well as to unhealthy diets... that's the whole point of doing clinical trials on these things.

In reply to SAF:
Yeah I watched the documentary at the time I remember thinking a lot of it didn't seem particularly scientific to me but I'm still forming opinions about it as I've only recently started looking more deeply in to nutrition / diet.

Interestingly though the documentary (possibly different episode of) mentioned some 'people' genetically don't respond to exercise, which I was sceptical regarding from the start. The book I'm currently reading explains that this can occur because of damage caused by trans fats / heated polyunsaturated fats to enzymes in your body which stop you burning fat and building muscle!!!

Anyway I'm not disregarding the documentary completely but I'm not sure I agree eating shite and then semi starving yourself is the way forward for a healthy body in the long run.

In reply to tlm:

Nothing else at all! That's why I wake up hungry, come home from work hungry...

In reply to CurlyStevo:

For me trying to restrict what I can and can't eat all the time isn't sustainable. I can easily restrain myself for a couple of days a week if I know I can eat and drink whatever I like whenever I like the rest of the time.

Different strokes for different folks. People can't understand how I can work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for two weeks and then take three or four weeks off. I can't understand how they can work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week all year round. I know for a fact I can't.

In reply to andic:
As someone who has struggled with fluctuating weight over the years, i would suggest, well it works for me:
Eating five to six equal sized meals a day spreading your calories equally (as possible)
Drink plenty of water
High Intensity Interval Training
Allow yourself a 'treat' once a week as your reward
Only weigh yourself once a week, my weight can fluctuate up to 3lb in a day
Keep a food diary and be honest with your entries
Adopt the mindset that its a change of lifestyle and not a diet and Very importantly maintain that positive mindset
No one said it was easy

In reply to BruceWee:


likewise, 12+hour shifts on a rotating shift pattern, when one day my meal break will be at 0945 and the next it won't be till 1430 eating my own food in the ambulance station, next day it might be at 1300 eating hospital stodge without being given any choice in the matter, it doesn't fit well with alot of diets.

A few years ago I lost a lot of weight, I was doing a crazy amount of exercise but I was also starving myself on nights. I didn't know anything about intermittant fasting then but looking back I was proberbly achieving the 500 calories fasting days without realising, thing is now night shifts are just as relentless as day shifts and I have to eat more to get through them.

So for me I figure IF on my days off may be a good approach, or at least one worth attempting!!

In reply to BruceWee:
yes I can easily do that too, but can you sustain it for the rest of your life?

In reply to SAF:
I wasn't suggesting it doesn't work (as a weight loss tool). I guess what would be more interesting is the long term effects of it, especially coupled with eating a typically shite western diet on the non fasting days / times.

Also can similar/better results be attained by eating differently and not necessarily being (overly) hungry at all.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

A real quick search of easily avalible peer-reviewed articles (all looking at alternate day fasting as opposed to 5:2), would suggest that it has alot of the same benefits as calorie restrictions, with some additional benefits, and benefits still being present despite a 'unhealthy' high cholesterol diet on the eating days...much the same as was presented on Horizon, which suggest to me that there research team did a reasonable job. The interesting one was that in one long-term study of rats there were some negative effects on cardiac function.

"These data support the hypothesis that this kind of dietary restriction protects against age-related fibrosis, at least in part by reducing inflammation and oxidative damage, and this protection can thus be considered a factor in the prevention of age-related diseases with sclerotic evolution."

"Alternate HC-CON (ADF) feeding reproduced most of the beneficial effects of daily cholesterol-free diet, including strongly diminished hepatic, vascular and renal activation and inflammation; also atherosclerosis was reduced by half as compared to High Cholesterol, albeit still higher compared to the cholesterol group."

In reply to CurlyStevo: I tried the fasting thing and as soon as I went back to eating normally then the weight piled back on again.

Healthy eating and exercise is the only way. No diets! I've tried the fasting *and* a no carb and a low carb diet before and got fatter than ever. Will never go on a diet again!

PS - should state that it didn't work for me long term because I have deep seated problems with hormones and binge eating and after suffering diets my binging got worse than ever.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

I know I can't sustain a 'healthy diet' for the rest of my life. Contolling what I eat every day for the rest of my life except the once a week treat that everyone seems to recommend would not work for me.

2:5 fits my lifestyle and attitude to life much better.

In reply to andic:

It all depends how much willpower you have. I can lose 10-15 lbs in a month or two quite easily when I want to...... keeping it off permanently is another question entirely.

In reply to Removed User:

Surely if you go on a calorie restricted diet, say IF, until you've lost the target weight. Once you're there then surely you can just adopt a healthy normal calorie diet and maintain. Why is it necessary to continue IF/calorie restriction?

In reply to Removed User:

Well quite I think I have sufficient, I just wonder how bored I will become along the way and how long it will take even if I am very dilligent

In reply to andic:

I have started a blog as a means of motivating myself, and keeping a log of my progress. It will mostly be what i do each day but i hope to find time to comment on other diet or exercise ideas etc etc:

http://climbingweight.wordpress.com/

In reply to SAF:

I would love to start the day with a fry up, I recon I would lose weight as well! I wouldn't eat anything else until a light evening meal at 8:30.

In reply to SAF: i think youll find there is no strong evidence that eating cholesterol raises it in a unhealthy way in the first place!!!"

In reply to BruceWee: do you know what a healthy diet is? There seems to be a lot of mis information in this regard. I dont think its low cal low fat!!!

In reply to SARS:
What im learning is that thinking in terms of weight loss or maintaining and number of callories alone is not how you will achieve the body you want. Its what you eat not the callories in it.

In reply to CurlyStevo:
The only time I can face 'fried food' is before a big day out in winter. Hot Porridge just doesn't sustain me for long enough in cold weather.
I gave up on curries, and fast food years ago in order to watch the weight.
I'm not sure if people who regularly fast, are more prone to diabetes?

In reply to andic: I read your blog and just thought I would make a few comments, your gym workouts seem a bit haphazard chest, back, arms and shoulders + running on one day, back, legs and shoulders + kettlebells the next day. So the same muscle groups are getting hammered day after day without time for rest & recovery.
Whilst on the topic of recovery your diet should include more protein to aid your muscles in recovery, amongst other things.

In reply to dek: fried food isnt necessarily bad for you but from what im reading dont fry in veg oil high in polyunsaturated. use olive oil for lowish temps or nice stable oils high in saturated fat for higher temps like coconut oil or lard! Much healthier!!!

In reply to CurlyStevo:
Can you provide references for those suggestions?

In reply to cat88: Cheers I'll try to put a bit of thought into it

In reply to joel182: its certainly in the deep nutriton book i listed above. Also i think in the good calories bad calories book but ive only started skim reading that. Both these books cite studies and go in to biology.

In reply to joel182:
polyunsaturated fats are very unstable with regards to heating and form substances with similar effects on the body to transfats.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

And my earlier quotes that you discredited came straight from peer reviewed medical journals, do you understand the concept of clinical research, double blind, randomised etc.?

In reply to SAF:
I'm not going to get in to a scientific argument regarding this I don't have the time or the energy, but I didn't attempt to discredit your quotes I was just expressing an opinion.

Have you done a lot of research in to the area of nutrition or have you just looked in to fasting?

As mentioned I've only really just started looking in to this area a couple of months back. But so far I've seen that a lot of what we've been told about told about nutrition / diet seems to be based at most on pretty dubious information.

For example eating saturated fat does not seem to be the major cause of heart disease we are seeing in western society and it does not necessarily raise cholesterol levels. Also that HDL and LDL are not strictly cholesterol anyway they are lipoproteins that contain many fats and are essential for health, neither are bad as such, but there is the concept of a healthy ratio (rather than strict upper level of either / each). Studies have found an inverse relationship between quantity of salt consumption and heart attacks. Vegetable oils ( and their associate margerines) are very often a lot worse for you heart than butter / olive oil / lard / coconut oil (especially when heated or when containing trans fats).

Anyway this area is incredibly complex I doubt I'll ever become an expert in it, but I'm attempting to become informed.

In reply to CurlyStevo:
I agree, the whole good fats bad fats issue is an complex one. I am no expert but I understand that, traditionally anyway, Eskimos live on a diet that is extremely high in fat, mainly from seal and whale blubber, but have very low incidents of heart disease.
From this I can only conclude that fats alone are not necessarily bad but form part of a much more complex set of issues.

In general, I thought that fasting has been shown to be a bad idea, doesn't it send the body catabolic and into starvation mode? The body then hangs on to fat and burns lean tissue instead. When normal eating re commences you just top up the bodies fat levels.
I understood that the best way was to calculate your bodies needs based on BMR, weight, exercise levels etc and cut by as little as 200 calories a day. Unfortunately as people nowadays we seem to need instant gratification even if this thwarts our long term goals.

In reply to Bomber:
I'm current reading that its not just how many cals we eat its what they are. Carbs for example can cause quite a lot of issues in the body if over indulged in (diabetes, cardio vascular and heart issues, depressing of white blood cells etc). Carbs also seem to slow the metabolism but be digested quickly causing more hunger. Fats on the other hand speed the metabolism up and reduce hunger.

It's interesting that fasting reduces blood glycerine levels similarly to a lower carb diet and sees many of the same advantages (which could perhaps be achieved more sustainably by adjusting diet rather than going hungry!)

In reply to CurlyStevo: protein also helps you feel fuller for longer and most of us dont eat enough of it. Fats can be very beneficial for the body such as those found in foods like nuts, seeds, avocado etc I have 50g of 'good' fats per day, eating fat doesn't make you fat.
Could go on forever on this I am a PT and nutritionist going to study dietetics at uni in september so if you have any questions you want answered I will do my best to help.

In reply to cat88:
cool, I'm just plugging away at a few books. It can be a bit heavy at times, I'm hoping it will get easier the more I read

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Keeping weight in check is very simple, consume the same amount of energy as you are using. How you do this depends on your body and your character. For you this is done by restricting the types of food you eat, for me it's done by restricting the times that I eat.

Possibly I don't know much about a 'healthy' diet and tbh I don't think anyone else does either. There is no one size fits all to nutrition or exercise, all you can do is listen to your body.

Overall I think I agree with you on what constitutes healthy for me although I try to avoid sugars more than anything else. I do eat lots of unsaturated fats although I probably eat more complex carbohydrates than is fashionable at the moment.

The main thing is I want to be able to go out and get drunk whenever I want and to stuff myself with pizza and coke the day after without feeling like I've wasted a week of controling the kinds of food I eat.

Probably not the healthiest way I could live my life, I know, but then the way I'm doing things at the moment means I can do whatever I want with my diet and still, climb, ski tour, lift weights, etc.

Most important thing you can do with your diet and exercise regime is listen to your body. That's something that's not emphasised nearly enough by most self proclaimed exercise and diet gurus.

In reply to BruceWee:
"Keeping weight in check is very simple, consume the same amount of energy as you are using."

As long as you are not assuming this is a simple formula of calories in weight loss / gain out. The food you eat sends signals to your body and effects all sorts of things, including health, metabolic rate, fat storage etc.

I'm not really restricting foods (well apart from trying to limit processed), a bit the opposite really as most people try and blanket restrict fat especially when dieting and I'm finding the opposite is useful. I'm not doing paleo or anything (yet!) but I am a bit weary of filling up mostly on carbs and snacking on carbs. I'm also trying to reduce the amount of heated polyunsaturated fats and sugar I am consuming. I'm certainly not calorie counting in the traditional sense.

"Possibly I don't know much about a 'healthy' diet and tbh I don't think anyone else does either. There is no one size fits all to nutrition or exercise, all you can do is listen to your body."

Well unless you actually try and form an informed opinion and try different types of diet (as in food we eat not weight loss) then you certainly won't know anything.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Can I ask, what makes you feel the need to be so patronising?

I'm not sure when you suddenly decided that you wanted to become an expert on nutrition but for me it was about 15 years ago when I was competing in international karate competitions and training around 30 hours a week in addition to university.

Since then I've experimented with a variety of different ways of consuming energy, some of which worked for certain things and some didn't.

Over that time I've learned a great deal about how I react to certain foods. I wouldn't dream of advising others about what to do though. All I can do is pass on what I did and how it affected me.

After 15 years I think I can safely say that I know very little and anyone who tries to convince you that one particular way of eating is good or bad has missed the entire point of nutrition and exercise which is to figure out what works for you.

In reply to BruceWee:
the reply was meant in context to you saying.

"I don't know much about a 'healthy' diet and tbh I don't think anyone else does either. "

Which at a minimum implies you don't know much about nutrition. There is literally tonnes of information regarding nutrition out there, I'm not selling my self as an expert, I'm just suggesting unless you try and read up on it then I guess you won't know more than you've been told mostly at school and by the government.

Maybe you could summarise what you have discovered works for you apart from pizza and coke and purely counting calories as if you are a machine?

In reply to CurlyStevo: Depends what I'm doing. If I'm being sedentary then I tend to eat more protein. When I'm active the complex carbohydrates are the bulk of what I eat.

During exercise then I need a combination of simple and complex carbohydrates. My favorite at the moment is a sort of home made energy paste consisting of 2 parts bannana to 2 parts peanut butter to 1 part jam. Also, If I'm out all day then peanut butter and jam sandwiches work well.

When I'm doing a combination of heavy weight training and climbing then I need to really watch my protein intake to avoid weight increase but still see strength gains.

Chocolate milk works as a recovery drink for me.

Frozen pizza and coke or ideally a spicy chicken sandwich from KFC are essential hangover food.

As far as sticking to diet plans goes, the main thing I've learned is that unless I've got a very specific goal like a big competition or a project route then trying to avoid certain kinds of food or limit the amount of food I eat is a complete waste of time.

This is why 5:2 is an interesting proposition for me. It fits in with my charecter and I seem to be able to do it without any problem at all.

The most important thing is that I try it for myself so that I can have an informed opinion rather than immediatly dismissing it as poppycock.

In reply to BruceWee:
Whilst my comment was meant to be a bit provocative and also to some extent tongue in cheek (when do I ever say poppycock normally I didn't say the whole diet was poppycock!

I said that I didn't believe maintaining a fasting diet permanently was feasible (the implication here was for most people!). Even you said:

"unless I've got a very specific goal like a big competition or a project route limit the amount of food I eat is a complete waste of time."

I was also saying that fasting but in between eating any old junk could not be net result a healthy thing to do (this is based on what I've been reading also IIRC the horizon program was advocating eating whatever you like on non fasting days)

I have recently fasted for a day consuming 500 kcal and I didn't like it at all I was hungry all the time! I guess maybe it gets easier with practice. In any case as mentioned I was in no way dismissing it as a method of loosing weight. The question is how do you maintain keeping the weight off or is it a perpetual yoyo.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Don't know if you would call it a yoyo but at my fighting weight I'm 66.5kg. At the moment I'm round about 73kg and this is probably the heaviest I've ever been thanks to a long period of inactivity due to being away and free all you can eat lunches Normally I go from between 68 and 72 depending on activity levels although there's definately been an upward trend over the last 10 years or so. I think that's pretty normal though.

I'm definately hungry on the fasting days but I enjoy it in a wierd kind of way. Maybe it's the masochist in me

In reply to BruceWee:

Well, my two penn'rth.

Hit my highest ever lardlevel on new years eve (21 stone 6).

Started riding the bike to work every day (7 or so miles each way), smaller portions of food, shed loads of fruit and veg, knocked the beer on the head. Daily weigh ins so far show:

01/01/2013 21 stone, 6.5 pounds
02/01/2013 21 stone, 2.5 pounds
03/01/2013 20 stone, 13.5 pounds
04/01/2013 20 stone, 13.5 pounds
05/01/2013 20 stone, 13 pounds
06/01/2013 20 stone, 11 pounds
07/01/2013 20 stone, 9 pounds
08/01/2013 20 stone, 8 pounds
09/01/2013 20 stone, 7 pounds

Really impressed...

In reply to ThunderCat:

Well done mate I'm pretty impressed too!

In reply to ThunderCat:

And there we have it - forget all else. Common sense prevails. Eat better stuff, do more stuff, cut out stuff of no nutrional and high calorific value and the weight comes flying off. You have lost about a stone in a week and I, sir, salute you.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Cheers fella. I feel great about it actually. I'm not considering it a 'diet' as such because there's no real sense of deprivation at all. I'm actually remembering how nice fruit and veg actually is.

Used to drink gallons of sh*t vendapack coffee from the free machine at work, now I have water and green teas instead.

It's always been blindingly obvious how the calorific balance works, I've just never had the motivation to actually put it into practice.

I'll give an update at the end of the month.....

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers: > (In reply to ThunderCat)
>Eat better stuff, do more stuff, cut out stuff of no nutrional and high calorific value and the weight comes flying off.

No it pissing doesn't!!! I'm trying so hard not to weigh myself because despite eating smaller portions, no crap, exercising lots, cutting out beer and generally being hungry I'm sure I've not lost anything.

However you're of course right - and i know what I'm doing is right - but I'd kill for quarter of that weight loss in a week!

In reply to andy:

To be fair, I think you always lost a massive chunk in the first week. I expect it to bottom out a little now and to lose more reasonable, steady amounts over the coming few weeks and months.

In reply to andy:

You and me both.

Ive lost about a lb since NYD although I have only just rid the house of booze. A couple glasses of 'er indoors Chinzano on the rocks tonight and the house is free from booze(to help her of course, not because I'm a raging alcoholic - now where's the cooking Madeira?). Might chuck the choccies in the bin and then we are purged. 8km run tonight and off we go. Id like to lose another 2lbs by this time next week.

In reply to andy:
The book I'm reading (deep nutrition) explains that eating heated polyunsaturated fat can adversely effect the enzymes in your body that signal you to burn fat and put on muscle. Also eating to much carbs tends to lead to fat being put on (especially under the chin and around the waist). You could try adjusting your diet to eat more healthy fats and less carbs?

In reply to andy: You shouldn't be going hungry, if your hungry then eat just eat the right things, fruit, nuts, seeds, rice cakes, a tin of tuna, a protein shake, chicken salad, hard boiled eggs, a bowl of porridge, some cottage cheese with celery, beef jerkey, oat cakes etc etc

In reply to CurlyStevo: When you talk about carbs, I assume you are talking about the bad carbs i.e. white bread, pasta, rice et al. not god carbs such as the brown equivalents.

Also, bananas, apples etc are carb central. What do we do with those?

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Beer is my biggest downfall mate. 1 becasue when I drink, I drink a LOT...and then 2 because any sense of proportion in terms of food also goes out of the window when I'm beered up. 3 also, because I'll always feel like a massive greasy breakfast the following day.

My record for giving up alcohol is about 34 days and I lost a shed load of weight then, if I remember correctly. It all went tits up on day 34 because I went for a walk from Buxton station up to the cat and fiddle, and rewarded myself with a pint at the top. Which became 6 pints, which led to a drunken stumble back to the station (with another pint on the way down) and then gave up on the idea.

But it's day 9 this time round, and I feel really positive about the booze and not missing it at all.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
Heavily processed and high GI carbs are the worst yes, but generally eating less carbs is also worth considering.

In reply to cat88:

The 'hunger' this is something else I'm trying to focus on. Previously if I've felt a bit hungry I'd have been in the fridge like a shot and walked away with a sandwich that would have put scooby doo to shame.

Now if I feel a rumble, I'll sit with it for a couple of minutes to see if it goes away at all, or have a glass of water / green tea. Don't know if the 'thirst can be mistaken for hunger' thing is a myth, but it seems to work.

If I still feel genuinely hungry after a couple of minutes there's we've got a tub of chopped fruit and another of chopped salad / veg to munch on.

In reply to ThunderCat: I eat every 3 hours so cant really comment there lol but those things I listed I do eat myself

In reply to ThunderCat:

OK, im not over 20 stone but you and I seem like long lost family. I liken my love of beer and sarnies - particularly any sarnie containing mayonnaise and cayenne pepper - to the appetite of my dog. If its there, I will eat it. The only way, as I suppose I am similar in some ways to a drug addict, to rid myself of temptation is to remove it from the home.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

I probably do need to look at what I'm eating as well as how much of it - but typical day has been:

Brekky - mixed cereal (bran flakes/corn flakes topped with fruit and fat-free yoghurt
Lunch - Large bread roll, no spread, tuna mayo and salad, bag of crisps (I know, I know...), sometimes a cup of veg soup
Tea - Baked spud, chicken breast, salad.

Snacks - fruit, drinks water and tea with skimmed milk.

The only "naughties" are that I might have a fairly large baked spud, and I might have some low-fat dressing on the salad and low-fat mayo on my butty.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Can you tell me what enzymes these are?

In reply to joel182:
Another new year starter here... I've been counting calories on myfitness pal aiming for 1800 on non cycling days and around 2200 on biking days. I think my bmr is about 2750 so this should work. So far dropped 9 lb down from 277lb to 268lb and covered 130 miles cycling (two commutes plus a casual weekend ride) Hoping to ramp up the miles a bit this week and continue the counting. It's enlightening to see it all written down and really helps me think before shoving more biscuits in!
Good luck!

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:


Yes yes yes yes yes!!! Try this...eat your normal meal, but leave a forkful behind. Just a forkful. I can't. I have to eat it. I think it's a lifetime of conditioning from northern matriarchal figures that said "you're not leaving the table till that plates empty - there's bloody kids starving in africa!"

In reply to joel182:

Likewise...Who is it who has wriiten these books, what are their credentials and can they/do they back up what they are saying to references scientific research? Because they, and you, are making some pretty bold statements there!!

In reply to SAF:
I didn't make a bold statement I quoted a book (Deep Nutrition). I'm not saying it's right thats for you to decide. As mentioned I am just attempting to become more informed in this area.

The Author has an MD in Molecular Biology from Cornell and lectures about nutrition and health. I don't really want to get bogged down in some kind of scientific stand off with you, as I don't feel either of us are informed enough in this area for it to be worthwhile. I am still at the stage where I am absorbing knowledge and not really forming my own ideas about what I believe in detail.

I would say this author is biased somewhat towards alternative medicine and nutrition, but I don't necessarily think thats a bad thing as she is more focused on treating the causes of problems with diet than treating the symptoms with drugs.

In reply to joel182:
the enzymes are called delta-6 desaturase and delta-9 desaturase. She mentions that both of these can get blocked by Trans and Mega Trans fats. Trans fats are found in many processed foods using polyunsaturated fats(often vegtable oils), Mega Trans Fats is a collective term I think invented by the Author for oxidised and distorted fats that are formed from heating polyunsaturated fats.

In reply to CurlyStevo: May last comment wasn't a scientific debate it was a straight forward question...does the author reference any of her claims to either her own research or anybody elses, or are these just hypothetical/theoretical assumptions that she is making in her book?

A lot of clinical trials have been untertaken recently on Alternate day fasting, some turning up some interesting/unexpected results...ie. it doesn't matter what you eat on the 'feeding' days so long as you stick to your 500/600 calorie 'fasting' days...this goes contrary to what was expected even by the researchers themselves and goes in the face of a lot of commonly held beliefs...but that is what novel research is about!!!

On the flip side little research has been carried out on the 5:2 fasting system with the basis currently being theorectical, based on the research from alternate day fasting, and anecdotal evidence that it has a similar effect.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Well you finally answered the question!!!

In reply to SAF:
Sorry I don't spend my whole life on UKC

I remain sceptical that eating shit and fasting is going to fix all the issues that our modern diet is causing to our health, however that's just a gut feeling (no pun intended).

In reply to CurlyStevo: Me neither just got in from all afternoon/evening at the wall!!!

In reply to andic:

Reporting in!

- 22 miles cycling and healthy eating yesterday.
- Gourmet hotdog for lunch today, because they're delicious.
- hopefully a quick boulder tonight.
- Thyroid results came back fine, apparently on correct dosage (still tired though).

Weight still staying about the same but at least it's not going up!

In reply to Kieran_John:
3 more pounds off so that's down 12 since new year and 150 cycling miles commuting this week

In reply to VS4b:

Impressive weight loss. Sure it's not too fast?

You want a long term change at the end of the day.

In reply to Daniel Heath:
No, if it continues it would be but the first week is always much bigger loss than subsequent weeks and it's not even two weeks. I'm sure it'll settle down soon enough.

In reply to VS4b:

fair point, good work on that mileage

In reply to Daniel Heath:
Not bad for a fat lad

In reply to VS4b:

Similar thing here - 11 pounds since Jan 1st, but it's slowed down in the last day or two.

In reply to ThunderCat:

12/1/2013 20 stone, 5 pounds

Officially into my 2 stone now. Rock on...

In reply to ThunderCat: Well after 34 miles of running and 50 miles of cycling in 11 days, only 3 days without exercise, no beer and generally very sensible eating (one curry - but it was Bratfud-Villa) and finally a small weight loss - 3.5lbs lighter this morning than I was on NYD. Which, after all my whinging, is about ok - 2lbs a week is, for me, sustainable and sensible.

Just got to do it for another 13 weeks...

In reply to andy:

I think a couple of pounds a week would make me happy too- This 'first stone in a week' thing is great but I'm not really fooling myself that it's proper lard I've lost, I'm guessing it's just a sudden detox of christmas rubbish. It feels like whatever I lose from now on will be proper 'lard' and as long as it's slow and steady and I do sensibly, it should stay off...cos hopefully I'm also training my mind a little bit and breaking a few bad habits along the way, and getting myself into a more sensible approach to eating rather than stuffing my piehole at every opportunity.

Whats the target Andy? Is there an actual target goal in mind?

In reply to ThunderCat:
The more overweight you are the more weight you will generally loose I find.

In reply to CurlyStevo:
Input (what you put in) - Output (what you burn) = your weight.
Simple equation.

In reply to ThunderCat:


28lbs and get back to toasting my mate on the bike.

I've done it before (without that much pain - same as I'm trying to do this time - much more exercise, no/less beer and better food) a couple of years ago, then swore I'd never let myself get so unfit again. Fooled myself a bit because I've been cycling pretty much every week (2012 was my second highest cycling mileage ever, but tellingly my second lowest running mileage) but eating crap and had a PROPER binge on food and beer and no exercise in December.

Anyway - just off for a chilly 50 miles!

In reply to andy:

Nice one, it's snowed here in Loughborough. Contemplating hill sprints...

In reply to ThunderCat:

13/1/2013 20 stone 3 pounds..

In reply to andic:

Having been there and back again I believe losing weight is simple, eat less and do more. The tricky bit is to keep doing that - it's all about maintaining your motivation.

Having a realistic plan is key, but even more important is to share the plan and progress on a regular basis. There's nothing like knowing you're going to tell everyone you didn't lose weight this week to keep you on track!

In reply to andic: try cutting out gluten(all wheat products etc.) for just 4 weeks and see if you get any results in weight loss. If you do loose weight then stay away from gluten products as much as possible with the occasional treat when you feel desperate for something wheaty. Good luck

In reply to andic:

www.rippedbody.jp
www.leangains.com

In reply to pepperpot:

Well one week in... Not good!!!

Kept to the plan for exercise and averaged 2,700cal per day.

Not an ounce lost!! Better at bouldering though!

In reply to pepperpot:

2,700 is quite high unless you are doing shed loads of exercise? Any idea what you net of exercise amount is?

I'm doing a fair bit of exercise and cut back my (net) daily intake to no more than around 1,400 (with the odd exception).

In reply to Skyfall:
1400 is very low for a man especially with exercise.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

He said net. So taking into account the amount expended on exercise.

Si

In reply to DGM:

What are you basing this on? there is heaps of research out there and diets (atkins etc) which suggest this assumption is highly questionable.

I'm now reading this book (just started) so I can gain a more informed opinion.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Good-Calories-Bad-Controversial-Science/dp/14000334...

In reply to SCC:
Ahh ok.

In reply to CurlyStevo: If you consume 2000 cal and expend 2500 cal, what mechanism allows you to avoid losing weight?

In reply to Sir Chasm:
I quote from the amazon page regarding the book.

"For decades we have been taught that fat is bad for us, carbohydrates better, and that the key to a healthy weight is eating less and exercising more. Yet despite this advice, we have seen unprecedented epidemics of obesity and diabetes. Taubes argues that the problem lies in refined carbohydrates, like white flour, easily digested starches, and sugars, and that the key to good health is the kind of calories we take in, not the number. In this groundbreaking book, award-winning science writer Gary Taubes shows us that almost everything we believe about the nature of a healthy diet is wrong."

Did you know for example eating carbs, increases insulin in the blood stream and the insulin signals the body to store fat? This doesn't occur when you eat fats and proteins (or at least not nearly to the same extent).

In reply to CurlyStevo:

1/1/2013 - 21 stone 6.5 pounds

14/1/2013 20 stone 1 pounds

Whoop Whoop

In reply to CurlyStevo: That doesn't answer the question. You claim people are wrong when they say that expending more energy than you consume will result in weight loss, but you can't explain why.

In reply to ThunderCat:

Can you stop now please. You are making us all feel bad.

In reply to Skyfall:

The exercise is...

3 x Bouldering sessions - 15min warm-up and then 10-15 problems (1-1.5hrs)
1 x Run (30-40mins)
1 x Resistance session (30-40min)
1 x Mountain bike ride (1-2hrs)

On top of this 6 x stretch & balance sessions which takes about 15 minutes)

The Fat Secret app I use allows you to put in all of your daily activities such as time spent at a desk, driving, running, cycling etc etc and that is putting my average daily consumption at about 3,000cal.

Perhaps it will all start next week!!

In reply to Sir Chasm:

It is more a question of how precisely you can ensure that you've consumed '2000 calories'. The energy you get from foods depends upon:

- how they are prepared (cooked food has greater digestibility),
- gut flora. Gut flora help us digest food and populations of gut flora are influenced by diet,
- 'hormonal millieu'. Synthetic hormones and the effects of things like sleep on crotisol level have all been found to affect obesity.

Another point you should consider is the fate of macro nutrients. Can fat and carbohydrate be used to grow/repair muscle and tissue? So obviously 'eating 2000 calories' will have a different outcome if one person eats 40% of those calories as protein and another eats 0% as protein.

There is also a question of how effectively you can control 'energy out'. It has been found in a few studies that people active in the day do less at night, and vice versa. Your metabolism can be up regulated or down regulated depending on the availability of food.

If fat loss really was as simply as you portray then why do you think that people don't lose weight in a linear fashion? Read through some of the posts above - weight loss occurs in fits and starts with plateaus in between. Clearly there is a lot of complex biology that sits between calories in and calories out.

In reply to Sir Chasm:
actually that isn't what I said.

I disputed this claim.

"Input (what you put in) - Output (what you burn) = your weight."

Well obviously you have to take this formula non literally in the first place. But assuming we both get the gist of it. I'm saying i don't believe that purely the calorific content of the food determines how much of it will be put on or lost as fat.

In reply to CurlyStevo: Earlier you stated "its what you eat not the calories in it", i can agree with the first half, but the second half is balls.

In reply to pepperpot:

Wow! You need to eat more.... lol

And when do you get the time to do any work to fund your lifestyle?

In reply to Shani: I never said it was simple, but to deny that you'll lose weight if you expend more energy than you consume is silly.

In reply to Sir Chasm:
That still doesn't equate to:

"You claim people are wrong when they say that expending more energy than you consume will result in weight loss, but you can't explain why."

Can you explain please, the second half of what is balls?

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

I've gone down a cup size

In reply to Sir Chasm:

Perhaps you will loose it as muscle and still gain a bit more body fat where you don't want it.

Also most traditional dieters yoyo and plateau. The problem is the body adapts to the reduced calorific conditions. The other issue of course is that reducing the calories can also often result in nutritional deficiencies.

In reply to CurlyStevo: Your statement that it isn't the calories that are important.

In reply to Shani:

There may be more effective ways of losing weight and more efficient combinations of food to ensure that food eaten is burnt off rather than converted to fat but the fact remains that if you expend more calories than you take in you WILL lose weight. It's inescable entropy.

A lot of the research (and unrelated "nutritionist" woo woo) appears designed to try and provide the quickest most efficient weight loss system for fat westerners wanting to diet either quickly (which seems reasonable) or to justify why they shouldnt malazy) too hard on themselves(which seems a bit lazyb.

In reply to Sir Chasm:

Agreed. But longer term, you cannot escape your biology. You should look in to epigenetics and the Dutch Hunger Winter. What your parents and grandparents did can affect YOUR bodyfat levels.


On an individual level long term calorie restiction can damage metabolism and you bounce straight back to pre-diet weight (plus a bit). Most obese are in 'energy balance' ie weight stable for long periods of time. The question is why can obese people maintain their weight at an obese level without recourse to diet and exercise, but not at low bodyfat levels?

In reply to Sir Chasm:

OK well it depends what you are aiming for, pure weight loss or maintainable fat reduction and a healthy body.

The food you eat can also effect your metabolism, so in effect its a feed back mechanism. Also that certain foods are more likely to result in muscle growth and fat reduction and others vice versa. There again the more muscle you have the higher your metabolism.

Another effect the food you eat can have is in our hunger levels. Increased insulin levels trigger hunger, so eating a higher ratio of carbs can make dieting harder.

In reply to off-duty:

Agreed. But this does not explain the biology of fat storage.

In reply to Skyfall:

LOL Own business is the way forward

I still get my 40 hours work in more or less. I just start early, knock off at 4ish and go to the wall on the way home. The run is done on the way home too and although I've been taking my bike to the Peak more recently I can do 2hrs easy from my house.

Plus I have an understanding girlfriend. Mind you when our bambino arrives in June it will all be different!!

In reply to andic:

Progress to date:

- Bouldering Friday, Saturday and Sunday, roughly 5 hours total.
- Healthier eating than usual + smaller portion sizes over last week.
- A bit of top/leading indoors tonight.
- Less cycling than I'd like (weather has been horrific)
- Cut way back on the booze, only half a bottle of wine last week.

Weight:

- Exactly the same as before.

Conclusion:

- Someone is feeding me when I sleep.

In reply to Kieran_John:


It's the lard fairies!!!!

In reply to andic:

I lost 5 kg during the course of my summer vacation in Tajikistan last year. My climbing partner lost a similar amount.

In reply to andic:

Download myfitnessplan app, set a target weight and time to achieve, then record all your food and exercise. The weight will come off if you stick to the calory levels. The harder thing will be staying strong and losing weight at the same time.

In reply to SARS:

The answer to all of your prayers

http://images2.bridgemanart.com/cgi-bin/bridgemanImage.cgi/400wm.ADV.647873...

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Morning weight 175.4lbs, its coming off slowly.

In reply to ThunderCat:

01/01/2013 21 stone, 6.5 pounds
02/01/2013 21 stone, 2.5 pounds
03/01/2013 20 stone, 13.5 pounds
04/01/2013 20 stone, 13.5 pounds
05/01/2013 20 stone, 13 pounds
06/01/2013 20 stone, 11 pounds
07/01/2013 20 stone, 9 pounds
08/01/2013 20 stone, 8 pounds
09/01/2013 20 stone, 7 pounds

13/1/2013 20 stone 3 pounds..

18/1/2013 19 stone 13 pounds...

Very nearly gone down two cup sizes now,

In reply to monkeyboy3000:

Actually managed to make some good headway here - Currently on 76.3KG,

And measured my waist at 34.5 the other day

Still a fiar way to go but not bad in 16 days - Basically trying to do be more active and eat less snacks / junk / drink less beer but still drink some beer and not go hungry.

Since early Jan I am down from around 85kg to 82.5kg; essentially lost best part of half a stone and now almost exactly 13stone. Not been easy but worth it. Some more to go mind...

In reply to Skyfall:

Whats surprises me is how much the weight you lose actually weighs (yeah, I know that sounds stupid)

I'm almost at 20 pounds down now which is about 9 kg I think? Just picked up a 10kg dumbell to get a feel for how much unneccessary lard I've been lugging around. It's quite surprising.

In reply to andic:

I lost a stone while working in Tanzania last summer. I didn't even know i was losing it but i didn't eat any processed sugar for 4 weeks (sweets are unbelievably expensive out there). I exercised less than usual although i was active. I think the key was no sweet stuff. I had no access to mirrors or scales either and I remember thinking I was eating tons (pasta, rice, bread, mealie meal, veg chapatis and beans...). I noticed my clothes getting baggier but just assumed they were stretching as I had to wear the same stuff for days on end.

Got home, looked in mirror at heathrow, didn't recognise myself!

Needless to say this xmas I put it all back on....

In reply to Snoweider:
I think the body tends to hold less fat in warmer climates too...

In reply to andic:
Not updated here for a while, it's been really exciting at work (when I usually post).

I have managed to lose 2Kg since the start of the thread, but feel a lot fitter and stronger. I think that starting to do weights and cardio in two separate sessions (about 4 of each pw) has increased my muscle mass (and probably water retention) so I have exchanged fat for strength which I don't mind. The evidence is that I have lost an inch from my waist which I would not expect to correlate to only 2 Kg of fatand I can now bench 100 Kg.

In reply to andic:

I've not been taking any size measurements, and I haven't really noticed any physical change (I tend to wear loose baggy stuff anyway) but someone at work did say I looked like I'd lost weight.

made me day, that did.

In reply to Snoweider and stevo:

Ha if I lived in tazzy I'd have the worlds biggest beer gut, Boags is my favorite brew, just netar.
to clarify stevo's point was that their summer or ours, cos when I was there in june it was fking gibbering.

>Morning weight 175.4lbs, its coming off slowly.

Morning weight today 173.6lbs. Thats just over 5lbs in a week and a half.

Lots of exercise 11km just now and yesterday 30 minute circut and some strenth training, day before 10.5km etc.

Ive eaten nothing but fruit, veg and protein and that's its so it can be done.

Drunk-in-law is coming round tonight so its a good job ive earned those calories today but chosen wine rather than beer so lets see what difference that makes.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

18th day without alcohol for me - I'm going for a straight 100 days (I think that takes me to April 11th)

It's my birthday this weekend and the chaps at work all bought me beers which I've had to lock away in my drawers. That's what you call 'support', eh?

In reply to ThunderCat: 100 days. That's dedication.

In reply to ThunderCat:

Weird coincidenec of sorts, April 11th is my birthday...

Yes, I know what you mean re weight though 2.5kg isn't that much. Still, it's a fair old amount of climbing gear on a rack. I definitely feel lighter and less flabby. Everyone tells me I don't need to lose weight as I am quite fit and tall but I have steadily put on weight over the years and just want to get rid of it. My initial aim was to get down to 13stone but I've done that and I am interested as to what will be my plateau weight without killing myself.

Although I am exercising, I always did, and I suspect the biggest plus all round is that I am drinking much less alcohol. I am afraid I had slipped into the routine of drinking most nights but now I'm only drinking weekends and I'm already noticing how my tolerance is going down (a good thing really as I don't then drink as much at weekends either).

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:


The funny thing is that by calorie counting I am much more aware of what I am eating and so eating much better food generally. So it's a bit of a win-win - eat less but better.

And drink less booze as I said! Quite a revolutioon in lifestyle for me. Most days I feel a lot better for it.

I've been doing the 5:2 thing though and am still not sure whether it's for me long-term. On my eating days I've still been carefully calorie counting and keeping it at a reasoanably low level though not stupidly so (it's not been hard). I have to confess having done a little reading I am a little concerned about the impact of fasting on metabolic rates and impact on muscle mass, though the 5:2 is I think supposed to counter that. Still, I do think a more healthy approach would be simply to exercise and eat/drink less generally. It's just that with my work etc is hard to fit in a lot more exercise. I am thinking I may stick with the 5:2 for a couple more weeks then review it properly. Also, if I notice a lot of muscle droppiing off as well as fat I will switch course but currently it does seem to be fat around my middle which is coming off mainly.

At the age of 25 I weighed 107.5kg/17st (height 172cm), getting out of bed in the mornings was a struggle, any form of exercise was out of the question. I was totally at a loss for what to do, I'd tried everything. Cutting down calories was torture, I was always hungry and my already low energy levels plummeted. I'd lose a few pounds but it'd always come back in double quick time because it just wasn't sustainable for me.

My dad had always had weight issues as well (though not quite as overweight as I was) and had been doing quite a lot of research reading papers/books about the advantages of a low carb lifestyle. I was pretty skeptical as much of the advice directly contradicted everything I'd ever been told by doctors and nutritionists. I started reading "Trick & Treat: How Healthy Eating is Making Us Ill" by Barry Groves which frankly blew my mind. Barry Grove's book directly challenged commonly accepted "knowledge" by looking at the often shoddy evidence it was based upon.

After reading two chapters I started following Barry Grove's advice for a high fat, low carb diet. Within six months I had dropped 30kg. Four years on I've stuck to the lifestyle changes I made, I now weigh 62kg (for a total loss of 45.5kg) and am fighting fit, my life couldn't be any different. I love the way I eat, I'm never hungry, my vitals are all in the "excellent" category and have never been this happy with the way I look and feel.

It's definitely a case of horses for courses, but I found what works for me and I'm glad I did. Sustainability is the key, temporary diets lead to temporary weight loss, if you want to make a change it needs to be a long term lifestyle one.

In reply to Styx:

Good testimonial bro!

In reply to Styx:
Good story. It's taken along time but over the last year or two I've started to reassess the high carb/low fat diet that was the dominant healthy eating message when I was a young'un. Eating roughly 33:33:33 at the moment and it seems to be working quite well in terms of weight. I do have a family history of high cholestorol and heart disease though, so I'm going to get some blood work done soon and will be interested to see the results.

In reply to nw:

Same here, it's actually how my dad got started researching this stuff. My grandad had a couple of heart attacks and was eventually diagnosed with heart failure, he was told he had 4 months left to live at best. My grandad being the stubborn Yorkshire man he was wouldn't have it, he went to see the best private specialist he could afford. He was told to switch to a high fat diet and he lived for another 4 years before his illness finally got the better of him.

The change in diet was obviously no miracle cure but it was plain to see that the deterioration in his health rapidly slowed down.

People often give me dirty looks and make comments about how my arteries must be clogged with cholesterol when they see me gleefully tucking in to a giant plate of fried meat (with veg/salad, of course!). In reality, I have a resting heart rate of 45bpm, a blood pressure of 95/60 and HDL/LDL levels are all considered "ideal/excellent" as well. This usually pisses people off as they can't get their heads around it.

I recently finished reading "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance" by Volek & Phinney which I found fascinating and explained a lot of the anecdotal things I have observed. I would highly recommend it to any climbers/active people interested in low carb lifestyles. This article gives a better overview than I could: http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2012/08/11/western-states-100-low-carber-win...

In reply to andic:

The arrival of a puppy has fair mangled my plans over the last couple of weeks, but I'm not giving up!

In reply to Styx:

So do you eat sugar at all?

In reply to tlm:

Small amounts in things like brown sauce, salad dressing, etc. It's impossible to entirely eliminate sugar.

I'll sometimes have a few bits of dark chocolate as well (85% or higher cocoa content) if I want something sweet but I've found that my tastes have changed quite a bit, sweet stuff is just too sweet. I will very rarely have a slice of cake or something after a hard MTB ride tho having said that!

In reply to andic:

01/01/2013 21 Stone 6.5 pound.
02/01/2013 21 Stone 2.5 pound.
03/01/2013 20 Stone 13.5 pound.
04/01/2013 20 Stone 13.5 pound.
.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..
.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..
.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..
18/01/2013 19 Stone 13 pound.
19/01/2013 20 Stone 0 pound.
20/01/2013 20 Stone 1 pound.
21/01/2013 19 Stone 11 pound.

I'm reminded of the King / Bachmann booker "Thinner"....

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Quick check in:
Morning
Height 5' 8" (and a half)
Weight 172lbs or 78kg in new money
BMI 26.15.

This, compared to three weeks ago, which was:
174 cm
178 lbs or 80.50kgs
34 " jeans
26.9 BMI

So my target of a couple of lbs per week is on track, even though there have been a couple of drinky days in that time and normal eating days.

My main target is <25bmi to get me into the normal range so i should be the in a month or so.

Regime, lots and lots of exercise. I have been to the gym almost every day doing long runs (up to 12km and increasing) plus fast runs interspersed (5km last night in 25 min 26 secs my fastest yet and aiming for sub 25 mins), weights, circuits (row, XT, run, steps - not the crappy ones but the ones which mimic cross country skiing - and walking the dog for a brisk 30 mins banks me 125cals.

I'm not starving myself and trying to reduce carbs from refined sources. Lots of protein and fruit and veg, for instance this mornings brekky was full pot of Longley Farm cottage cheese, coffee and an apple. I feel full, the cals were 255ish and a whopping 30grams of protein! Dinner, if the family are having a spag bol or chicken pasta, I will just have the meat and sauce.

The worrying this is sustainability and keeping this up past my targets.

In reply to andic:I know somebody who has gone from a size 22 to a size 12/14 over quite a while by walking to work at first and getting the bus back, then walking to work and back each day.

She's no folds of skin or anything because she's done it over quite a long time, but it's method which will mean the weight will stay off.

If you want to lose weight and keep it off I think putting bits of exercise into your day you can keep doing probably seems like a good idea.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:But pasta is tasty!

In reply to Timmd: So tasty that its has to be covered in other stuff to make it palatable

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:You're not eating the right pasta. ()

In reply to Timmd:
Must be some walk.

In reply to nw:Couple of miles each way I think, I think it's more to do with her having done it for a year or more, it's just been a healthy way to go about it.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Sounds good mate, keep going long term!

In reply to Daniel Heath:

Anyone know anything about bmr an tdee? I've been reading up on it and am now a bit bemused...

So far I'm down 14lb since new years day. Been on calorie limit of 1800 and cycled just under 400 miles. Everything going well, two weeks of no loss but moving again now. But having looked into tdee I think I should be eating more calories, a lot more. There seems a point of view that not eating enough will slo down weigh loss. My tdee is 4000 ish apparently so even at a third off that means I should be eating 3000 calories a dy to lose weight which sound bonkers. Any one know anything about this stuff?

In reply to andic:

Had a weigh in last thursday and was down to 88kg waist is down too, under 36" now.

On top of going to the gym for two sessions a day in the week I have been doing extra walking eg going to supermarket is about 1 mile round trip and I have to go most days since I'm carrying the bloody stuff.

In the mornings I gave been doing about an hour of bouldering or weights and most evenings a 30 mins running plus abs and stretching exercises.
I'm probably putting on a but of muscle at the same time but not too worried as long as I am losing fat, I will be paying more attention to my waist mmts from now on

I'm in China for 6 weeks not sure how this is going to affect my weight. Last time I was a wreck by the end of the (2week) trip thanks to the hospitality (read vast quantities of rice spirit) I am going to try drinking less if at all possible and I will have to be inventive with exercise, perhaps, running around the streets might be best but will probably get some odd looks, (I'm in a fairly small town) might try some Yoga too, any one recommend a you tube channel or such?

In reply to andic: Don't the Chinese do communal exercise, like tai chi and so on? Or is that just in the films?
Jerry

In reply to Jerry67:

I did a month of work experience when I was at college, at Komatsu in Birtley (big Caterpillar machine building firm).

I was upstairs in the office bit. At 9:30 every morning music would be piped in over the intercom, and every one stood up and did 15 minutes of gentle exercise.

At first I thought it was a wind-up...but eventually I got used to it.

In reply to Jerry67:

in the warmer months the old biddies do dancing in the squares but its a bit too nippy for them ATM, and TBH it's hardly taxing for a young bloke

And YT is blocked anyway,

In reply to andic:

A month of healthy eating, portion control, no alcohol, cycling to work and no snacking. I've lost two stone. I'm therefore telling the diet to go and f*ck itself in the face just for today and I'm having a sausage and bacon sandwich on tiger bread.

In reply to ThunderCat:

Lol - I've well over half a stone and hit my target weight a while ago but rather lost the plot yesterday and had a muffin and a bit of a party. I'm back on the wagon today! I'm liking the new (old) me and some climbing grade improvement it seems.

In reply to ThunderCat:
Nice one, well done.
I'm 14 lbs down and 460 miles up on the bike this year.

In reply to VS4b:

I've got a big b***strd bike ride planned for August...Glasgow to Loch Lomond, to Pitlochry, to Kincraig, up to Inverness, then back down the other side of Loch Ness to Fort William, down to Oban and then back to Glasgow. (where hopefully Mrs TC will be waiting with some sore-bum ointment and a car to bring me home)

Clocked it at about 400 miles. Planning to get it done in five days

So any more weight I can shift will be a bonus.

In reply to Skyfall:

I went to wedding reception last night and it all went wrong although I had done some good strength training and did my first sub 25 min 5K (24:55) which by some standards on here is probably pretty poor but I was pleased.

Also giving it a rest today. Im not eating choccies and crisps but I will treat myself to some home made wholemeal pasta (never made it before but I ned to make use of a pasta mchine my bro bought me for Xmas) with prawns, salmon, octopus, green beans in a cream sauce washed down with a bottle - yum, yum.

I think you have to cut lose sometimes otherwise this sensible eating would be a bit boring.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Bang on mate. I feel refreshed after the sausage and bacon sandwich and able to plough on for the next month. End of february reward is a pizza dripping in garlic sauce and pepperoni.

In reply to andy:

We gave up smoking at new year. It's really not helping the weight loss. Feel and understand your pain!

In reply to John_Hat:

As expected eating better, drinking not at all and running/cycling more has started to have its effect - 2lbs a week pretty much - 9lbs down, 19lbs to go!

Didn't get in to the Fred so the White Rose in July is the key target, but running's getting easier (doing 10m on a Saturday now which the dog's enjoying) and I can see some blubber's come off. Still plenty to go at though...

In reply to andy: My progress has been around 2 pounds loss a week since new year, through portion control, no processed food, and the common denominator for a lot of these replies, no alcohol. Added bonus is grade improvement, and feeling generally sharper(prob through no booze!)

In reply to andic: Started my healthy eating/5:2 fasting on the 11th of jan...since then had 10 days with the lergy, and 2 uni assignments to do on top of a full time job, so a total lack of excercise, think all i did in this time was 3 trips to the wall (2 very very gentle ones when i wasn't properly well) and one winter climbing day.

Lost 4-5 lb in that time, which considering my normal reliance on excercise to lose weight, it could be worse.

Now off work for 10days, so far, been running, done pilates DVD and wall once, and wall again tonight, and at least 2 more wall sessions during the week

Trying to cut down on surgar/carbs, anyone got anytips for super quick breakfasts(and by that I mean the same amount of time as it takes to prepare/eat a bowl of cereal)for early starts when I'm working? This is the one bit I'm struggling with :-S

In reply to SAF:
Oats mixed with yoghurt and fruit or porridge in microwave are what I do.

In reply to andy:

Well done you! My trouble is going to be that I'm on an away job for the next three months... Difficult to fit the exercise in, and eating in hotels every night..

In reply to John_Hat:

Hotels do salads, dont they?

In reply to andic:

Pretty easy to lose weight. Most people forget that it took a while to put the weight on and try and lose I much faster.

In reply to andic: I lost 4lb last week - IF and a bit of running.

<smug face> )))

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

ish... With tons of super-heavy-calorie dressing all over it.

I am aware its perfectly possible to eat healthily in a hotel, but sadly good food at someone else's expense is a lot of temptation.

In reply to John_Hat:


I know what you mean...I used to stay at a pub / hotel in Hook which did a healthy option type meal...there was also a tescos over the road where I could have bought green stuff.

But all too often it was 6 pints of ale and whichever meal came with three inches of molten cheese on top.

In reply to ThunderCat:

Jan 1st - 21st 6.5lb
....
....
....
Feb 5th - 19st 6lb


Into my third stone now. 3 more to go.

The secret of losing a lot of weight quickly and easily is to be a massive fat knacker when you start the diet...