OPINION: The Trouble with Social Media in the Outdoors

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Maybe some moments actually aren't worth sharing after all...?, 3 kbIn his series of essays on environmental ethics, Tomas Frydrych wrestles with big questions all outdoor folk could ask themselves: here it's the impact of social media

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 deepsoup 27 Aug 2018
In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

An excellent and thought provoking read, thank you. 

I will 'share' it on Facebook immediately!

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.

But don't put the pictures on Facebook or track your footprints with GPS.

Because the internet is evil.

1
In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

I can see that there's a point trying to get out of that essay. Having read it, I'm not sure it escaped.

But maybe, it's me. Social media can be an antisocial thing, and I am not wholly immersed in it.

T.

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

Great article!! A side point... is it not possible that some people voraciously absorb other's adventures without leaving the door themselves? If this "feed" is cut off, lots of us will have no alternative but to get outside and experience the outdoors first hand (heaven forbid!) leading to a greater environmental impact?

 Fiend 27 Aug 2018
In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

Only skimmed this, and slightly off-topic, but this quote the author likes:

> I therefore hope ... this book [helps] spreading the load on the hill, taking the more adventurous away from the popular honeypot routes.

Is a very good argument to purchase definitive guidebooks and support companies and organisations who research and produce definitive guides to areas, to use them and ensure the load is spread widely, to avoid some crags and areas being neglected and overgrown while the honeypots become trashed and overused.

 summo 27 Aug 2018
In reply to Phantom Disliker:

> Great article!! A side point... is it not possible that some people voraciously absorb other's adventures without leaving the door themselves? If this "feed" is cut off, lots of us will have no alternative but to get outside and experience the outdoors first hand (heaven forbid!) leading to a greater environmental impact?

Not convinced, perhaps it's just some of relatives and my non outdoorsy friends, they follow various websites, feeds etc.. of outdoor related things I know they wouldn't consider doing themselves. It's just about image to their friends, I think, to try and look adventurous. 

 Martin W 27 Aug 2018
In reply to Phantom Disliker:

> Great article!! A side point... is it not possible that some people voraciously absorb other's adventures without leaving the door themselves?

Did you mean "voraciously" (OED: Engaging in an activity with great eagerness or enthusiasm) or "vicariously" (OED: In a way that is experienced in the imagination through the actions of another person)?  I find the first, while grammatically correct, difficult to actually make sense of.  The second seems easier to understand though may not be what was meant.

 kamala 27 Aug 2018
In reply to Martin W:

I'd say they're "vicariously" enjoying the adventures by "voraciously" absorbing news about them...

Both good words, nice to see them being brought out for an airing.

 

 Mick Ward 27 Aug 2018
In reply to Martin W:

'Vicariously' would be tautologous in this context.

At times people do voraciously get off on other people's adventures. (The Dawn Wall?)

Agree with Kamala. Lovely words.

Mick

 Chris_Mellor 27 Aug 2018
In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

Interesting point of view and; my 2 cents, it's going to get much worse before it gets better. Social media seems to encourage locally intensive outdoors tourism in our climbing / mountaineering world.

 Pedro50 27 Aug 2018
In reply to Mick Ward:

> 'Vicariously' would be tautologous in this context.

> At times people do voraciously get off on other people's adventures. (The Dawn Wall?)

> Agree with Kamala. Lovely words.

> Mick

Positively voluptuous 

 C Witter 27 Aug 2018
In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

Good article, written with style, and leaving plenty of questions to mull on.

 HakanT 27 Aug 2018
In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

Sitting on the top of the cliffs at Rhossili today, I watched a woman in her early 20s spend at least half an hour getting her picture taken by her boyfriend. Carefully choreographed  for that "spontaneous joy of being outdoors" look. At no point did she stop to actually look at the view. I'm not suggesting that I have any sort of right to dictate how someone should enjoy beautiful places, but it felt pretty vapid.

Interesting article on the subject in The Guardian recently:

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2018/aug/16/wish-you-werent-here-how-the...

Post edited at 21:46
 Jim 1003 27 Aug 2018
In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

Boring as f*ck, couldn't get past the second paragraph...

20
 Donotello 28 Aug 2018
In reply to Jim 1003:

Too many big words?

1
Blanche DuBois 28 Aug 2018
In reply to Jim 1003:

> Boring as f*ck

True.  Doesn't seem to stop you posting regularly though.

 

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 john arran 28 Aug 2018
In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

Most of what is described is nothing new; thirty years ago, every time a top climber sneezed it got reported in a magazine and thoudands of people were influenced by it. And honeypotting was equally prevalent too, except that the number of climbers and walkers was much smaller, so the effects were much less problematic.

What is very new is the recent ability of 'ordinary' outdoor users to contribute to the conversation, and also to influence the activities of others through example. The KOM example is a very good practical one but the opinion "bubbles" must surely be having a big effect, seeing as they seem to be doing so in many other areas of online discourse. If you know little and have experienced very little, your online voice can appear just as strong and authoritative (and therefore potentially influential) as an expert.

It's hardly surprising that economic and scientific experts are currently getting belittled, when every Joe in the street can have a voice of similar weight.

 GarethSL 28 Aug 2018
In reply to john arran:

The rise of the "content sharer" as opposed to creator is one of the worst thing. Its like Chinese whispers, they share legitimate posts from renowned sources but the original meaning or purpose ultimately ends up diluted or lost entirely.

E.g. Pro-athlete shares post about protecting environment/ sharing nature blah blah and gets a bunch of likes and positive feedback from like minded folks ---> post picked up and shared by legit outdoor media source, says "hey check out so and so's message" ---> post gets regurgitated through content sharers and ends up as "who likes climbing?" or "happy weekend y'all!"

Guess who's content gets seen the most?

 Simon Caldwell 28 Aug 2018
In reply to Fiend:

> Is a very good argument to purchase definitive guidebooks and support companies and organisations who research and produce definitive guides to areas, to use them and ensure the load is spread widely, to avoid some crags and areas being neglected and overgrown while the honeypots become trashed and overused.

Doesn't have to be a definitive guidebook to do that though. For instance the Lakes Selected guide includes Direct Route on Waterfall Buttress (Newlands) which is many things, but overused isn't one of them! And closer to home, the latest Eastern Grit has a chapter on Agden Rocher, but sadly that hasn't noticeably impacted on the numbers climbing there.

 lithos 28 Aug 2018
In reply to Pedro50:

this article has  a certain volume of verisimilitude

In reply to lithos:

Why is everyone's vocabulary so verbose here?

 DonnyDave 28 Aug 2018
In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

Not much of a problem in my days. I do remember though after getting back home and back to work after an amazing weekend climbing, other than magazines and looking though guidebooks there seemed a void between my two wolds of "normal" life and climbing. So unless ppl let the social media side of it become more important than what they are actually there for, then its a great thing. 

Now though at my age and health issues, i'm finding it a wonderful thing to be able to look at videos and come here to "relive" some of my past adventures. 

   

 Tricadam 28 Aug 2018
In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

Worth noting that some outdoor activities, the popularity of which are in part spread by social media, do specifically spread the load on the outdoors, Munro bagging being a good example. Having "run" up a few Grahams and Marilyns in recent times, however, I can report that bagging of these hills has a long way to go, judging by their often pathless state. If you want unadulterated heather, tussocks, bracken and bog, never fear: there's plenty left!

I think what may be a bigger issue for the environment is the increasing load on our cities' pavements as adherents of TFTNA prowl them at all hours, racking up that magic Zone 1 time, accompanied by the hiss of strenuous nose breathing.

Post edited at 19:26
 Paul Sagar 29 Aug 2018
In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

The problem with this argument is that it doesn't provide any evidence - how could it? - that it's social media specifically that is the major cause of over-use of outdoor areas, in the UK or elsewhere. And I'm very doubtful that social media really is to blame.

As pointed out above, a lot of social media exposure goes to followers who are only vicariously enjoying these spots, and entirely lack the willingness, know-how, or ability to actually go to such places themselves. Liking the Cuillin Ridge is easy on Instagram. Driving 10+ hours to Glen Brittle, and then slogging it up to the ridge itself, is not. 

Of course, it's fairly clear that more easily-accessible beauty spots are getting more traffic these days. Standout examples include Yosemite and Zion in the USA: the main valleys are overrun, especially at weekends, from Spring to Autumn, and indeed the more accessible of the dramatic photogenic spots are too (think the main Yosemite Falls trail, or the hike up to Angel's Landing). No doubt, some people are motivated to go up there to get their own selfie to post to followers. But move out to any area of even those parks that requires even a minimal level of fitness, let alone know-how in the outdoors, and numbers drop quickly. Are more people hunting social media likes? Sure. How many of them get beyond the paved paths and easy walk from the shuttle bus? In my experience, as a proportion of the total hordes, not that many.

So that leave those who do. The people who have the fitness, and skill sets, required to get into more remote areas. Are those people - i.e. people like me, and the majority of UKC users - doing it just because we saw somebody post on Instagram? I doubt it.

Example: I just got back from Skye, where I took some old friends for the long weekend, introducing them to scrambling and easy climbing. I took them because Skye is mindblowingly beautiful, and I love climbing (and getting rat arsed on Talisker). I put a coupe of shots up on instagram, sure - to my pathetic less-than-300 followers. But I'm pretty sure I've never looked at images of Skye on social media before (I first went there 10 years ago, before Instagram was invented). The main enabling factor in our going there was not social media, but 1) disposable income for middle class professionals who can afford to drive up there and buy relevant gear, Talisker, etc, 2) the ease of access to information via the internat. In this respect, the internet does matter - but far more important in our going to Skye was the Met Office weather app, coupled with Google Maps, and emailing to check that we could camp at the Sligichan without booking ahead.

The root cause of more people *like most of us who read UKC* (not mindless instagram followers, whoever they are) going out and putting pressure on the natural environment is not social media (an easy scapegoat) but the relative affluence of Generation X and Millennials, plus the information accessibility generated by the internet. UKC destination guides (a couple of which I've penned) are probably more damaging in this regard than Instagram. 

I'm no fan of vacuous 'inspirational' posts, and the 'life style' 'influencers' of Instagram gross me out. But blaming them for crags getting polished, trails getting eroded, and the wilderness being ruined, is to blame (admittedly obnoxious) individuals for what is really a much larger structural problem.

People who read UKC want to get out there into the wilderness, and it's easier than it used to be - so more of us do. Of course, it would be better if fewer of us did, or we somehow time-shared use in these spaces to reduce overall numbers - but short of government regulated permits, how could that be done? 

It's what's known as a 'collective action problem': what's in the interest of each of us privately (going out into the wilderness) is bad for all of us collectively (because the wilderness gets ruined). The problem is, if *only you* refrain from going out, then the wilderness still gets ruined (cos everyone else carries on) - and so you've missed out on doing what you love, and achieved nothing in terms of protecting the environment. It's basically a miniature version of the global climate change crisis. Indeed, you may as well blame global warming on travel bloggers posting too many photos to Facebook - in both cases you're missing the wood for the trees.

 

Post edited at 22:28
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 Graeme Hammond 29 Aug 2018
In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

Surprised there was no mention of how the UKC logbook could be considered a form of social media for climbers... I've been there and climbed this route/ticked something off that list, made the UKC top ascents this week, ability to easily follow recent ascents of partners, see recent winter/mountain accents etc

Post edited at 22:47
 Tricadam 30 Aug 2018
In reply to Paul Sagar:

Some good points there.

Thinking about winter climbing in Scotland, I suspect that a number of internet and social media factors will have, if anything, diversified the venues people climb in: with more reliable weather forecasts, accessible records of "real" recent temperatures and reports on the internet of on-the-ground conditions, people are much more likely, I would have thought, to take a punt on a crag which in general has less reliable conditions than the usual go-to spots, if forecasts and/or internet reports suggest it may be worth it.

In reply to Graeme Hammond:

> Surprised there was no mention of how the UKC logbook could be considered a form of social media 

UKC is a form of social media. Which is why the article being published on UKC is a little ironic...

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 Michael Gordon 30 Aug 2018
In reply to Tricadam:

> people are much more likely, I would have thought, to take a punt on a crag which in general has less reliable conditions than the usual go-to spots, if forecasts and/or internet reports suggest it may be worth it.

Certainly better forecasting and general knowledge about what it takes for a route to come into nick are factors which help taking a punt to often be more successful nowadays than in the past. On the other hand, the effect of reports on UKC and other social media is that for many, taking a punt is unnecessary as they can go wherever someone has already climbed. I agree that more, not less, venues are likely being visited than ever before, and this is unlikely to just be due to improved transport links or a general increase in numbers participating. 


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