NEWS: Snowdonia Drone Trial Brings Coverage to Not-Spots

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 UKC/UKH News 27 Oct 2022

A drone service extending mobile connectivity to mountain areas lacking network coverage is undergoing trials in Snowdonia. The technology is intended to be an aid to safety in the hills, making it easier to contact emergency services, and smoothing logistics for rescue teams.

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 Garethza 27 Oct 2022
In reply to UKC/UKH News:

An interesting idea… however, with (up to) 12 hours of coverage, what happens for the other 12+ hours?
 

Surely a well placed mast here and there would provide enough coverage for most of the area rather than relying on a drone that probably won’t be in the air unless the weather is reasonable? 

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In reply to Garethza:

That's a good question: I can ask them 

 deepsoup 28 Oct 2022
In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

I got the impression from your article that this was an emergency service, something that would be launched as required to boost the chances of communicating with and quickly finding people lost in the hills as well as making logistics for MRTs easier to organise.

I think Garethza is picturing it more as a routine 24/7 thing that'll make it easier for someone lost in the hills to call for help in the first place.

Which is it?

 Mark Haward 28 Oct 2022
In reply to UKC/UKH News:

I am always amazed that it doesn't seem to matter where I go in the European Alps I always seem to be able to get a signal. Obviously the hut and skiing infra structure helps as it means there is the funding / desire to provide good coverage.

   Exmoor, if the wind changes the signal seems to disappear. Dartmoor, very variable. Anywhere in the UK mountains it is a lottery. I'm sure drones could be useful in certain circumstances but I wonder what their weather tolerances are like - can they cope in high winds, winter temperatures, poor visibility? Personally I would prefer discrete masts to Drones if we want more coverage - I'm sure there would be many people who relish the lack of connectivity though and wouldn't want drones or masts. Balancing the 'safety net' with the desire for 'wilderness' is very tricky.

   Personally, I switch my 'phone off when on mountain adventures, but keep it with me for emergencies. I understand others may choose to navigate with their 'phone - or even continue their social media life whilst in the hills!

In reply to Garethza:

There's no way snpa would allow it. Can't change the view in any way at all, unless it's to put a motocross trail in.

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 ExiledScot 28 Oct 2022
In reply to UKC/UKH News:

Unless this team is on standby sitting there waiting, will they get it over head faster than a member of an mrt fast party legging it in to an incident, with a multi network mobile, radio and sat phone? I doubt it. Few places are more than an hour from the road for a fit person.

Plus, how well does it work in low light, fog, drizzle, cloud, snowing, high winds etc.. and finally due to military training traffic they'll have to justify putting notams out in ogwen or elsewhere, they can't do it for routine, only for callouts etc..

Post edited at 09:44
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 deepsoup 28 Oct 2022
In reply to ExiledScot:

> Few places are more than an hour from the road for a fit person.

If the fit person knows precisely where they're going.  (ie: no kind of search operation is required)

As a means to locate someone who is probably carrying a phone in an area that has no signal, temporarily providing a signal to that area seems like a great idea if it's technically feasible.

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 ExiledScot 28 Oct 2022
In reply to deepsoup:

> If the fit person knows precisely where they're going.  (ie: no kind of search operation is required)

Not search, but a friend of the injured party may have left to find a phone signal etc... getting a person on scene fast is vital for both confirming their location (many folk won't know exactly where they were) and deciding medical & rescue equipment required. Even perfect phone comms doesn't remove the desire to have trained team member there asap. 

> As a means to locate someone who is probably carrying a phone in an area that has no signal, temporarily providing a signal to that area seems like a great idea if it's technically feasible.

Personally I think it's a niche or marginal gain, everything depends on how fast they can react and all weather capabilities, bad things don't tend to happen on days with calm, dry, clear skies and during daylight. If they can fly high, with gps tracking, any weather, at night, launch within 15-20mins then they'd be getting somewhere.

There are already drones which can operate with cameras to search, so this comms thing is quite niche. It's a good idea, but I'm not convinced it's quite found its right application.

Post edited at 11:02
 subtle 28 Oct 2022
In reply to UKC/UKH News:

I had to check the date - its not April yet.

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 deepsoup 28 Oct 2022
In reply to ExiledScot:

> Not search, but a friend of the injured party may have left to find a phone signal etc... getting a person on scene fast is vital for both confirming their location (many folk won't knew exactly where they were) and deciding medical & rescue equipment required.

That sounds like a case for this drone that you're making here.

A friend of the injured party has left them to find a phone signal and call for help.  Because the injured party is somewhere that has no phone signal - the drone launches, and then for 12 hours or so there is a solid signal at the injured party's location. 

The casualty can use their own phone to relay their location, and assuming the friend passed on their number the MRT can actually call the casualty and/or send them a SARLOC message.

Or perhaps by some other means, assuming the casualty has a smartphone, they can use their phone's GPS capabilities to pass on their coordinates.  (Lets not rehash the debate about which specific app they might use.)

Meanwhile if the casualty is immobile the friend who left them to find a signal can make their way back to them, and still have a signal when they get there.

> Even perfect phone comms doesn't remove the desire to have trained team member there asap.

In a serious case of course not, but solid phone comms can help enormously to establish precisely where "there" actually is - which is key to the "asap" part. 

In less serious cases having solid comms with the 'casualty' might actually make a physical response unnecessary, by establishing that a call out is a false alarm possibly, or by giving directions and advice and then monitoring their progress as they walk themselves off the hill.

 Tradical 28 Oct 2022
In reply to deepsoup:

Us paragliders might well have safety concerns with unmanned drones buzzing around the skies when we're flying. I'll need to buy a bigger reserve if one of these things is going to get tangled with my lines...

 ExiledScot 28 Oct 2022
In reply to deepsoup:

But none of this removes the need for getting a fast party in. 

How fast can this drone be airborne, what are it's weather and or daylight capabilities? 

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 deepsoup 28 Oct 2022
In reply to ExiledScot:

> But none of this removes the need for getting a fast party in. 

I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise are they?  If anything I think it's being suggested that this would make it easier to get 'a fast party' in, by more rapidly and accurately establishing the precise location of the casualty and their situation.

Having said that however, in a few cases it could actually do that.  Because establishing good comms with the 'casualty' might make it possible to ascertain that they don't actually require a rescue or that they're capable of rescuing themselves with the benefit of some guidance, advice and support from the MRT over the phone.

It's a bit unusual, but by no means unheard of for MRTs to successfully talk people down from the hill after they've called 999 in a situation where they do have a usable phone signal.  And fairly obviously that's preferable to a physical call-out if it works, especially from the point of view of a busy team with limited resources.

 Bulls Crack 28 Oct 2022
In reply to Garethza:

Why not stick a mast on Snowdon given the other stuff that's up there or is that a step too far?

 ExiledScot 28 Oct 2022
In reply to Bulls Crack:

> Why not stick a mast on Snowdon given the other stuff that's up there or is that a step too far?

Phone jamming on the summit might be better!

You'd need several around north wales, perhaps carnedd llewelyn(joking), as the not spots tend to be upper reaches of cwms that don't have line of sight down to Bethesda, llanberis, Betws etc... reach a bwlch or ridge and you nearly always get a signal again. 

Maybe, just maybe we accept we can't always be in contact and act accordingly in the mountains, learn the skills to reduce accidents and if the worst happens accept $hit happens. 

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 Strife 28 Oct 2022
In reply to Mark Haward:

In 2016 I hiked across the Lyngen alps in Norway. It's a remote & unspoilt mountain range in the arctic circle. I had signal and 4G for the vast majority of the 10 days.

I find it absolutely mind boggling how terrible our network coverage is in mountainous regions of the UK. Or even just the countryside for that matter.

 Garethza 30 Oct 2022
In reply to Bulls Crack:

Probably don’t need one there as it has good line of sight I would imagine being the highest peak around? I get your point though but at the same time it’s also 2022 not 1902. If you don’t like signal on your phone then leave it in your car? This argument is just not logical 

 olddirtydoggy 30 Oct 2022
In reply to UKC/UKH News:

Instead of drone coverage, wouldn't it be better if there was perhaps a train up to the top and a visitors center to welcome adventurers.

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