Boiling water taps

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 girlymonkey 15 May 2023

We should really have a DIY forum on here!

Does anyone have a boiling water tap? Do you like it? Can you run cold and boiling through the tap at the same time to make it hand wash temperature?

We have a leaky oil boiler in the new house and we are wondering if we can just disconnect it and get rid of the tank and not bother with any heating system until we get our heat pump. The shower is electric, so it's just hand and dishwashing that we need water for. 

We have no idea how long it will take for the whole process with heat pump and underfloor heating etc. The EST funding will certainly take a couple of months at least...if they ever call us back!

In reply to girlymonkey:

Sorry, no direct experience with a boiling water tap. I can only picture wanting one if I had a need for filtered, drinkable hot water without the [perceived] faff of refilling a kettle. 

If it's just dish and hand washing, I use one of these for my kitchen sink: https://www.toolstation.com/ariston-andris-r-10l-under-sink-water-heater/p1...

It's been great, and I like the modular simplicity of having that sink fully taken care of, separate to the heating system or the rest of the hot water / shower, etc. 

You just connect it to the hot hose of a mixer tap, and get whatever comfortable temperature you want.

2
In reply to girlymonkey:

The ones I’ve used have a normal hot and cold water feed and then a separate tap for the boiling water, which comes out the same spout (usually with some sort of catch so you don’t accidentally wash your hands with boiling water). Never tried running boiling water and cold at the same time but I’d hazard a guess that it would work as I can’t see any reason why it would be necessary to have a valve in there to prevent it. Don’t know if it would be cold enough for hand washing though.

I’m not convinced by them personally. Parents and in laws both have them. If you regularly want a decent amount of boiling water to fill a pan or do a big round of teas it can be a pain because it doesn’t have a huge capacity. Kinda handy for doing 3 or 4 teas without having to wait for a kettle to boil, but I assume a kettle is much cheaper. Mum and dad still keep a kettle in the cupboard which comes out occasionally when cooking or when there are a lot of visitors. 

 Jamie Wakeham 15 May 2023
In reply to girlymonkey:

Or if this is a short term bodge, maybe just a hot water urn with a thermostat that goes low enough? You can get some that turn down to 40C.

 AndyC 15 May 2023
In reply to girlymonkey:

Quookers have a 7 litre hot water tank attached - you can get the water coming out of the tap at any temperature from cold to very warm, just like a normal system. The boiling water is a boost function, requires a kind of double-click action to activate so you don't scald yourself. No idea how the running costs compare, but very happy with ours - no running the tap for ages to get the hot water through.

In reply to girlymonkey:

Do the dishes in the shower?

 flatlandrich 15 May 2023
In reply to girlymonkey:

I've only tried a boiling water tap once and didn't think it made a good cup of tea. It certainly wasn't as hot as one made from a kettle. No, you couldn't mix other water with it, it was boiling water only and a separate tap if I remember correctly. 

Buy yourself a dishwasher (cold fill only) and wash your hands in cold water and do away with hot water completely. If you need some for cleaning, just boil the kettle. 

Post edited at 21:55
OP girlymonkey 15 May 2023
In reply to Stuart Williams:

Interestingly, the reviews I have read suggest that the tap is cheaper than a kettle for the average person. Surprised me, but that's what they reckon. 

I don't drink hot drinks and my husband isn't at home most of the day, so it wouldn't be cheaper for us! 

OP girlymonkey 15 May 2023
In reply to AndyC:

Yeah, they are the super pricey end of the market though!! Not quite what we want for a stop gap! Good to know they work well though, incase it becomes something we want in the future!

OP girlymonkey 15 May 2023
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

> Do the dishes in the shower?

Good plan 🙂

OP girlymonkey 15 May 2023
In reply to flatlandrich:

We can't fit a dishwasher in the current kitchen layout. Whenever we redo the kitchen (which does need done soon, as does all of the rest of the house!) then we will look at whether we can get one. 

In reply to girlymonkey:

> Interestingly, the reviews I have read suggest that the tap is cheaper than a kettle for the average person. Surprised me, but that's what they reckon. 

I was thinking of the upfront costs; hadn’t considered the long term costs to be fair.

 EdS 16 May 2023
In reply to girlymonkey:

We have a Quooker at work.... It breaks down regularly. 

A decent Burko boiler, like we used to have, is more reliable and and simple to install

 NorthernGrit 16 May 2023
In reply to girlymonkey:

Only experience of them is at work. Pretty much all without exception now have a kettle next to them. YMMV.

 henwardian 16 May 2023
In reply to girlymonkey:

You could also consider an instantaneous water heater. Basically it's an electric shower heating unit but just plumbed into hot water pipe that leads to your hot water taps. It automatically starts working when it detects water flowing through it and you get hot water at the sink in a few seconds. There is no reservoir of hot water because the water is heated instantly as it flows through the unit.

Like an electric shower, they take about 40 amps and need their own circuit and circuit breaker in your breaker box. And if you run it at the same time as you are running your electric shower, you might start having problems with drawing too much current through either the main breaker or the main fuse in your head. They cost about £200.

Also depends a bit on your water supply - if the water coming in during the winter is very very cold, an instantaneous heater can have trouble getting it hot enough.

One of the advantages is that they are tiny and take up no space, they don't waste electricity keeping a reservoir up to temperature and if you need to use hot water for a longer period of time, the hot water never runs out like with a reservoir.

 jkarran 16 May 2023
In reply to girlymonkey:

As a stopgap I think I'd just use the kettle for washing up and cold water for handwashing.

Not sure I'd fancy a boiling water mixer tap for handwashing, I've met mixer taps that were more like parallel stream taps before now.

jk

 StuPoo2 16 May 2023
In reply to girlymonkey:

Got a quooker one at home ... would likely replace it if it fails ... you get used to having one.  Has worked flawlessly for 9 yrs now I think.

If you can get over the up front costs (which are steep) .. then a domestic hot water tap is undoubtedly very cheap to run going forward.  Quooker claim 3p per day for 3L of boiling (110oc) water.

It's a little complex to calculate whether a hot water tap is "worth it" financially without knowing more about you.  For example:

  • Are you a heavy or lite kitchen hot water user?
  • How many times a day are you boiling the kettle today?  example:  tea/coffee @ breakfast + rice/pasta @ dinner etc ..
  • How much do you over fill your kettle each time you boil it?  example:  for that 1x cup of coffee in the morning are you boiling a 50% full kettle and hence is ~60% of the water you are boiling going to waste?
  • Are you washing dishes in the sink 1x a day and filling with the kettle?

(I am not nominating myself to do this calculation for you btw)

Quooker claim that they can put 1x cup of hot water out for £0.002 and also claim "you could have 6 cups of tea for the same cost of boiling 1 cup of tea from the kettle.

If you assume that that is correct (and I can't imagine that Quooker would have any incentive to pump up the efficiency of their own hot water tap!) then you might be able to project how long it would take you personally turn a profit with a hot water tap.  A heavy kitchen hot water user will pay it off much quicker than a very light hot water user.  

If so inclined .. you might also be able to paint yourself a green spin on it too and argue that you're only producing the hot water you need (or at very least producing a lot less hot water than most produce by over filling kettles).

That being said - 100% luxury item.  Tesco will sell you a kettle for £20.   I'd still replace mine if it ever fails.

Tell us what you decide to do.

[1] https://www.idealhome.co.uk/house-manual/money-matters/cost-to-run-a-boilin...

Post edited at 14:02
 Neil Williams 16 May 2023
In reply to girlymonkey:

They aren't intended for washing your hands.  You have a separate conventional hot/cold tap for that.  They are intended for making drinks - think of them as a plumbed in water dispenser with a boiling feature.

If you want instant non-boiling hot water, you can get something that is in essence an electric combi albeit with a small tank, or those mini electric showers you fit above the sink purely for handwashing.  This sort of thing:

https://www.plumbworld.co.uk/triton-t30i-over-sink-hand-wash-unit-3kw-576-1...

Post edited at 14:19
OP girlymonkey 16 May 2023
In reply to girlymonkey:

Thanks folks. A plumber came today and did a couple of bare minimum fixes which he said should see us through a few months. So we are going to cross our fingers that it lasts until the heat pump. If it doesn't, then it sounds like the boiling tap might not be suitable and we might try one of the other heater options. 

 David Riley 16 May 2023
In reply to StuPoo2:

> Quooker claim  "you could have 6 cups of tea for the same cost of boiling 1 cup of tea from the kettle." 

Absolute nonsense.  It costs exactly the same to heat it in the kettle. They are presumably claiming 5 cups are left in the kettle afterwards.

 Neil Williams 16 May 2023
In reply to David Riley:

To be fair that is how most people use kettles.  If you're disciplined and only boil what you need you'll get closer to the same, indeed the taps may waste a bit of heat because they keep a tank of water at high temperature.

 AndyC 16 May 2023
In reply to Neil Williams:

> They aren't intended for washing your hands.  You have a separate conventional hot/cold tap for that. 

The Quooker is absolutely designed for that and no, we don't have a separate conventional tap on our kitchen sink. One tap to rule them all!

Quooker installed in 2016, no issues so far. We live in a soft water area, longevity could be related to water quality. 

 AndyC 16 May 2023
In reply to David Riley:

> Absolute nonsense.  It costs exactly the same to heat it in the kettle. They are presumably claiming 5 cups are left in the kettle afterwards.

The Quooker is not boiling water from cold, there's a thermally insulated tank which keeps a supply of water at (?) 70 degrees. The Quooker element adds the last boost to boiling and delivery is instant. Probably really is more efficient than boiling a kettle.

 David Riley 16 May 2023
In reply to AndyC:

It's most definitely not.  As Neil rightly says "the taps may waste a bit of heat because they keep a tank of water at high temperature."

 Harry Jarvis 16 May 2023
In reply to AndyC:

> The Quooker is not boiling water from cold, there's a thermally insulated tank which keeps a supply of water at (?) 70 degrees. 

And where does that heated water come from? It all has to be heated from cold somewhere along the way. 

 Jenny C 16 May 2023
In reply to girlymonkey:

Very interested in the feedback on Quooker taps. I fancy one, small kitchen so worksurface space is at a premium and two heavy tea drinkers in the house.

Not too worried about the installation cost, but interested to hear if it's cheaper to run than boiling the kettle. We do try not to boil more than we need but like most people invariably do, or boil the kettle go away to do something then return to bring it back to the boil before making a drink.

 David Riley 16 May 2023
In reply to Jenny C:

Wanting is reason enough.

 Neil Williams 16 May 2023
In reply to David Riley:

It's probably more efficient than boiling a full kettle for one cup of tea, but definitely isn't more efficient than just boiling the correct amount.  If you do do that and can't discipline yourself not to, a double-walled insulated kettle would probably provide the same effect.  I'm surprised we don't see more of those, really.

Post edited at 17:13
 AndyC 16 May 2023
In reply to Jenny C:

The Quooker may (or may not according to some UKC experts) use less energy to make a cup of tea but it will never be cheaper to run overall than a kettle.

On top of the installation costs it requires maintenance every 2 to 5 years depending on the water hardness. I bought a kit from Quooker and did ours a couple of years ago - I would say it's not for the faint hearted! 

You can boil quite a lot of water in a kettle for the cost of a maintenance kit.

Google "Quooker efficiency" and you will find lots of info.

On the other hand, it provides a good supply of instant hot water for washing up etc. If your kitchen sink is a long way from your hot water tank/heater then you will use a lot less water and save a little on heating costs. 

Thanks to this thread I learnt that the water in the Quooker vacuum insulated tank is kept at 107 degC under pressure! Never knew that! 

Post edited at 17:39
 StuPoo2 16 May 2023
In reply to David Riley:

> Quooker claim  "you could have 6 cups of tea for the same cost of boiling 1 cup of tea from the kettle." 

> Absolute nonsense.  It costs exactly the same to heat it in the kettle. They are presumably claiming 5 cups are left in the kettle afterwards.

This triggered me to do the maths ...

Q1:  How much does it cost to boil the kettle? 

ANS:  To answthis we need a few pieces of info:  1/ Cost per unit of electricity, 2/ how my KW your kettle is and 3/ how long it typically takes you to boil your kettle.

Soooo ..

 - I'm with octopus energy and they're quoting me 32.91p/kwh (inc energy price guarantee .. once that expires it will 50.31/kwh)

 - I took a look at this lovely Russell Hobbs number - https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/293017763 which has a 3kw element

 - it claims: "The 3kW concealed element in this Russell Hobbs Colours Plus kettle means you can boil a cup of water in just 45 seconds"

 - however ... i have a hunch that this all hinges on the fact that 99% of the population do not boil only the water they need in the kettle and instead over fill.  So let's assume instead that a cup of water = 237ml and that I in fact 1/3rd fill the kettle every time I use it = 1.7l/3 = 566ml or 2.38 cups per boil. 

 - Let's also assume that the kettle boils water linearly .. and that if it takes 45secs to boil 1 cup of water then it will take exactly double that time to boil 2x cups of water.  (big assumption .. but anyway).

That means ... our 3kw kettle running full power for 1 hr would cost me:  3 x 32.91p = £0.99 (approx), but I'm only running it for 45 seconds x 2.38 = 107 seconds = 0.0297222 hrs.   

0.0297222  x £0.99 = £0.02 per boil of the kettle ... assuming I 1/3rd fill the kettle each time.

Now ... if i were to be more accurate with my fill and truly only fill that kettle with exactly the 237ml that I need for my cuppa.  Then we would get:    0.0125  x  £0.99 = £0.01 per boil of the kettle.

This is still 5x fold greater than Quooker's claim that they can put a cup of tea out for:  £0.002

Maybe Quooker is lying (quite possible) .. or .. maybe I got the maths wrong ...

1
 David Riley 16 May 2023
In reply to StuPoo2:

You don't have to work anything out.  It's an electric element heating water.  It will use exactly the same amount of electricity in a tap or a kettle.

 SouthernSteve 16 May 2023
In reply to girlymonkey:

We have a Quooker in our new kitchen, seems very good. Tea tastes the same unlike hot water device on wall at work. Hot and cold are separate from boiling function. You do need a decent amount of pressure in the hot and cold water system or will be slow. 

 birdie num num 16 May 2023
In reply to girlymonkey:

Tea is best made from freshly boiled water from the quettle. 
Good luck with the heat pump. Get one of those fleece onesies in advance.

OP girlymonkey 17 May 2023
In reply to birdie num num:

Tea is best poured down the sink 😜

Our house is one which really will suit a heat pump. Our current problem is that it is too hot all the time and the heating is off! It is very well insulated. We are also going to get underfloor heating for the winter.

 artif 17 May 2023
In reply to Neil Williams:

> It's probably more efficient than boiling a full kettle for one cup of tea, but definitely isn't more efficient than just boiling the correct amount.  If you do do that and can't discipline yourself not to, a double-walled insulated kettle would probably provide the same effect.  I'm surprised we don't see more of those, really.

How about a decent thermos flask, dump the left over boiling water in it ready for the next cup, none wasted.

 Ciro 17 May 2023
In reply to David Riley:

> You don't have to work anything out.  It's an electric element heating water.  It will use exactly the same amount of electricity in a tap or a kettle.

No it won't - a kettle is quite inefficient, losing a lot of it's heat to the environment. Hot water taps heat the water in a vacuum flask, meaning getting the water up to temperature is much more efficient.

The question of which is most efficient overall depends on your use case - the more hot water you use the better the hot water tap will come out.

Think of two extremes:

In an office where people are making cups of tea all the time; the heating is much more efficient, and the water doesn't reside in the tank for long, so no great thermal loss per cup. The tap is going to be more efficient.

Someone who lives alone and makes one cup of tea every morning; the water is kept warm all day to dispense one cup of tea. A kettle will be more efficient.

 StuPoo2 17 May 2023
In reply to David Riley:

> You don't have to work anything out.  It's an electric element heating water.  It will use exactly the same amount of electricity in a tap or a kettle.

Erm ... that's like saying all cars with combustion engines use the same amount of energy to get you from A->B .. which is clearly false.

If we were to follow your logic ... then every 3kw kettle sold world wide would boil the same volume of water in exactly the same number of seconds ... which everyone obviously knows is not the case.  And if it's not the case .. then by definition, given all 3kw kettles consume the same amount of energy for every hour they are running, they are using different amounts of electricity to achieve the same outcome.  Which makes sense ... just like not all cars use the same amount of energy to move the same number of passengers from A->B.

You may be unaware but the European Union issues all appliances with an Energy Label from A+++ -> G- .. this includes kettles.  Not all kettles get the same energy efficiency rating because not all kettles boil the same volume of water, with the same sized element, in the same number of seconds.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/product-requirements/labels-markings/...

Some kettles are more highly insulated, some kettles will switch off their element immediately after the water boils, some kettles will be in need of descaling.

There are whole web pages dedicated to the topic of Energy Efficient Kettles:  https://energyguide.org.uk/energy-efficient-kettles/  That couldn't be possible if all kettles consumed the same amount of energy to boil to boil the same volume of water ... because by your logic no kettle could be more or less efficient than another.

To be clear - I am not actually making the case a quooker is more efficient than a kettle (if it turns out that it is .. then it would be at very best marginal), I am only correcting your understanding that all (same power kw) kettles globally use exactly the same amount of energy to boil a fixed volume of water.  There is no possibility that that is true.

Am I missing the point you are trying to make?

2
 Neil Williams 17 May 2023
In reply to artif:

> How about a decent thermos flask, dump the left over boiling water in it ready for the next cup, none wasted.

Works for coffee but not tea, as tea not made with properly boiling water is foul.  Better just to boil what you need for tea.

If having coffee, a filter machine with a thermos type jug for the coffee so it can do you all morning/afternoon is probably a better bet.

Post edited at 09:18
 artif 17 May 2023
In reply to Neil Williams:

Not according to the Yorkshire post / Yorkshire Tea. I also pre heat the flask with a bit of the kettle water first to minimise the temperature drop 

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/yorkshire-day-the-correct-way-to-make-...

> Works for coffee but not tea, as tea not made with properly boiling water is foul.  Better just to boil what you need for tea.

> If having coffee, a filter machine with a thermos type jug for the coffee so it can do you all morning/afternoon is probably a better bet.

Post edited at 09:49
 Neil Williams 17 May 2023
In reply to artif:

Not sure I follow, the word "flask" does not appear in that article.

 artif 17 May 2023
In reply to Neil Williams:

My response was regarding the temperature at which tea should be made i.e not boiling water 

I now predict this thread to go for several hundred posts 

 Jenny C 17 May 2023
In reply to Neil Williams:

I assumed you'd pour the hot flask water into the kettle and bring back to the boil before making your second drink.

Totally agree that yes tea needs to be made with freshly boiled water.

 Neil Williams 17 May 2023
In reply to artif:

Tea needs to be made with water just off the boil.  With coffee, particularly instant, you can get away with a much lower temperature so the flask thing works, but why not just make a flask of coffee rather than making it each time?

It's moot, though, as using an electric kettle to boil one cup of water now and one later takes the precise same amount of electricity as boiling two cups now.  So just boil what you need when you need it and all's good.

Post edited at 11:04
 Neil Williams 17 May 2023
In reply to Jenny C:

You could do that but it'd be spectacularly pointless and not taste as nice as fresh water boiled once.

 artif 17 May 2023
In reply to Neil Williams:

As my previous link alludes to, boiling water is not optimal for making tea, even Yorkshire Tea state that.

85degrees is mentioned and brewing for 4-6minutes. I wont mention cold brewing (oops too late)

There are numerous hits on Google that seem to state similar.

I must admit I knew about the reduced temps for coffee as its my preferred option but thinking about it, the brew time for tea, makes or breaks a cup of tea for me.

It's all down to personal taste anyway, there are no rules.

 flatlandrich 17 May 2023
In reply to artif:

> It's all down to personal taste anyway, there are no rules.

Couldn't agree more with that!!

Personally I like my tea made with properly boiling water and (preferably in winter) into a preheated mug. 

Brewing for 4 to 6 minutes? It'll be cold by then!! 1 minute max for me. 

 jkarran 19 May 2023
In reply to David Riley:

> You don't have to work anything out.  It's an electric element heating water.  It will use exactly the same amount of electricity in a tap or a kettle.

Exactly. If the kettle costs 5x more to boil a cuppa than the hot-tap then you know the working assumption is 4/5 of the boiled water is left to cool uselessly in the kettle after the brew is served. Both devices will have simple electric-thermal efficiencies in the high 90s of % so those can be disregarded unless we were looking at tiny performance differences.

Marketing BS like this puts me off products more than it attracts me to them.

jk

 J72 19 May 2023
In reply to girlymonkey:

Mainly this thread made me realise that I have a very inefficient set up for green tea which is to boil the kettle, take the lid off and then wait for it to come down in temp to around 80c (which I estimate by looking at the water for some reason).

must put a temperature control kettle on the Xmas list!

2
 artif 19 May 2023
In reply to J72:

> Mainly this thread made me realise that I have a very inefficient set up for green tea which is to boil the kettle, take the lid off and then wait for it to come down in temp to around 80c (which I estimate by looking at the water for some reason).

> must put a temperature control kettle on the Xmas list!

The more important question - why green tea???? 🤣 

2
 gravy 19 May 2023
In reply to girlymonkey:

I've seen the adverts: It's really important to like raw broccoli and to feel very smug about it.

Plus I know someone with one and when they make tea they filled the kettle with the "boiling" water and then boil it otherwise the tea is cold...

 J72 19 May 2023
In reply to artif:

No likes and two dislikes suggests I have the collective moral high ground on this topic 

2
 artif 19 May 2023
In reply to J72:

With my morals, thats Norfolk high ground

 Toerag 22 May 2023
In reply to StuPoo2:

The other way to do it is to look at how much energy is required to raise the temperature of x volume of water by y degrees, then look at the cost of providing that amount of electrical energy.  That will then allow you to test Quooker's cost claim. I would expect their heating element will offer about the same efficiency as a kettle one. Their insulated vessel will offer efficiencies in heat loss, but the water is still entering it at the same temperature as it's entering the kettle, therefore you are still moving x litres of water though y degrees in the grand scheme of things.


New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...