UKH

Hi all, I'm new to winter climbing and am looking to get my own set of axes and cows tails.

Could anyone recommend a good set for predominantly mixed climbing in Scotland (Grade III - IV)?

Looking to find that magical ballance between weight, performance and price.

I was going to suggest some DMM Raptors, but a quick check suggests they don't do them anymore. So maybe the Apex instead,  or Vertex.

Or BD Venom?

Quarks, BD Vipers or similar.  You can climb 4 with Venoms , or Vertex, but why make your life difficult?

Vipers are good and burly enough for mixed

Grivel North Machines. Best tool I've used for that kind of ground, nice and light, a perfect swing, excellent penetration on dense ice. I fitted Petzl Trigrests to mine although on easy ground you don't need them.

DMM Flys are a great all rounder. I've climbed lV 5 in them and know people who've climbed harder with them 

This isn't a recommendation as such but if I were in the market for new tools now and were price sensitive I would try out the new Simond Mambas

The do look excellent value don't they! They look very good anyway, but at the half the price of many of the competition they've got to be on to a winner.

Edelrid Riots (similar to Petzl Quarks).

A newer version of the Riot is about to hit the shelves so the last version (which I think has a nicer paint job) can be found a bit cheaper just now, while stocks last.

There doesn't seem to be much of a change between the older and newer versions- just a fresh paint job and different grips as far as I can tell.

Old version on sale-

https://bananafingers.co.uk/edelrid-riot?countryCode=GB&currency=GBP&am...

New version-

https://edelrid.com/gb-en/sport/crampons-and-ice-axes-shop/riot-adze

I'm selling an unused Raveltik (hammer) if you're interested and I think there are some others in the FS section of the forum

My two penn'orth is that it's expensive to invest in less technical axes than you need and then have to/want to upgrade. And, as already been said, good modern ices make things so much easier. For this reason I would say I disagree with buying flys or similar. Vipers, quarks, north machine, Apex etc would probably all suit you, and I wouldn't say looking to future needs that considering offset handles like Nomics is stupid. All depends what you see yourself doing, maybe a trip to Cogne or Rjukan, when they would completely come into their own.

Thanks everyone for the tips.

I really like the Edelrid Riots recommended by Dizzy VIsion. But will look for something similar like a Quark or Machine.

Good points! Is the Black Diamond Fuel comparable to the Nomics?

I was ideally looking for a pair if possible but thank you for the offer! I will keep it in mind.

I guess they are similar. I don't think the fuel has an adze version, so maybe not so good for Scotland or away from pure ice. But many people manage without and Fuels have stood the test of time. I think the standard advice is to go to a shop and feel the difference and the hand fit too. 

Personally I'm a fan of Vipers as a great allrounder technical axe, the mini/micro adze version seems pointless though - may as well not bother with one.  A few years since I've looked and played with axes to compare though!

Cheers,

Stu

Singing Rock Bandits are meant to be decent - Czech, but available here and competitively priced. Similar to a Quark, Viper, Apex and similar all rounders in that they are somewhat curved but without an offset handle.