Who Actually Uses Pertex/Pile? (Buffalo, Montane Extreme, Etc.)

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 Kai 04 Feb 2023

In all of my 40+ years of climbing, I have never once seen anyone wearing a pertex/pile jacket or smock such as the Buffalo or Montane Extreme.   Granted, I have done very little climbing in the UK, but I've climbed a bit in the Alps and all over North America, and these sorts of clothes simply don't seem to be used at all in those venues.   Is it different in the UK?  Are pertex/pile garments used by UK climbers?  

Online, there seem to be a fair number of enthusiastic users in the bushcraft community, but I've never even seen a video of anyone wearing one of these pieces of clothing to climb in.   (I've watched probably 100+ Youtube videos of climbing in Scotland, which is supposedly where these garments work well, and nobody was wearing them.)   I've never met anyone who has owned a pertex/pile piece, and most people I've talked with don't even know they exist.  

Does anyone actually wear these garments for climbing?   If so, why?  Where, and in what conditions do you use them?  

I figure someone must be buying them, as Buffalo is still in business, and Montane is still making the Extreme Smock and Extreme Jacket.  Are they all going to the military and bushcrafters, or are some of these pieces finding their way into the mountains?  

 Doug 04 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

Was very popular in Scotland in the 1980s & 90s but as you say, never popular elsewhere (& if you did see a Buffalo top there was a very high chance it was being worn by a visiting Brit). At least for ski touring it was just too hot much of the time in the Alps.

I still have a Mardale p&p jacket and now wear it quite frequently here in the French Alps, but mostly for pottering about in the local woods, walking to the shops, etc rather than for skiing or climbing. Its good when its cold, but as soon as I warm up its too warm (similar to my light down jacket) & takes up a lot of space in a rucksac.

 MG 04 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

I use a buffalo routinely (I have a herd of 3) for winter and alpine climbing, and cooler weather walking. They are superb. Warm, windproofish, warm when wet, quick drying, have huge pockets where you need them and make good pillows. I wear a underlayer, unlike the manufacturer's recommendations.

 Prof. Outdoors 04 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

Buffalo fan and user here.

Special 6 shirt is fantastic. Have a Mardale Pile Pertex Jacket as well. Montane Hood. Have sold my salopettes as just too warm for me. Only ever use Buffalo when the temp approaches zero. Great for winter walking/climbing.

Have tried layering and in the past even bought Paramo. Disastrous for me. Got soaked through, cold and the damn thing took ages to dry. Went back to using Buffalo and I have been warmer and drier at the end of the day than people wearing goretex and layering systems.

Buffalo is definetely a Marmite item. Me, I love it.

 ste_d 04 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

Seen plenty used in outdoor surveying during the winter where a short walk -1 hour - leads to 5 hours surveying i.e. moving slowly over moorland plateau at approx 2000' in a small area

 Wooj 04 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

I wear a montane extreme smock with a thin merino wool base layer underneath for ALL my winter stuff. Be that walking or climbing. It’s just so simple and practical. I’ve tried other standard layer systems but felt cold or under protected. I don’t wear the leggings though. Just merino wool long johns with mountain equipment waterproof trousers on top. I think they are marmite. I love my smock. The hood is better than the buffalo so that’s why I use the montane version. 

OP Kai 04 Feb 2023
In reply to Wooj:

> The hood is better than the buffalo so that’s why I use the montane version. 

Does the Montane hood work with a helmet?  

Also, I understand that these will keep you warm when active.  What about standing around at a cold belay?  Do you layer a puffy belay jacket on top?  

Post edited at 19:19
 Prof. Outdoors 04 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai

I have a Buffalo hood attached to my Special 6 smock. Very close fitting. Designed with silly extra piece which is supposed to go across the mouth. Lost it, don't miss it.

Have Montane hood attached to my Mardale jacket. Bigger adjustable and goes over a helmet.

Have tried underlayers but for me works better next to the skin. Develops a warm micro climate right where you need it and so much easier to dump heat if getting too warm.

 Brass Nipples 04 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

Used them for best part of twenty years.  Nothing underneath them.  But they require sub zero for me, and I felt I just wasn’t getting enough use of them with these recent mild winters.

I discovered Vapour Rise in 2003 which is a similar concept but can be used in a warmer and wider range of temps. The kind of temps you’ll typically encounter in the UK.

Never wore Buffalo in Alps apart from winter downhill skiing which it was perfect for.  For the alps it’s mostly a wicking base and vapour rise or a windproof if weather comes in, in the summer.  If weather crap when I get up, I don’t try and summit anything in the summer alps. 
 

Got myself a ME Kinesis jacket last autumn, big fan of it.  Haven’t worn waterproofs even in the worst of the weather since the 80s.

 Dave the Rave 04 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

Do you know what you’ve done? Are you proud of yourself?

In reply to Kai:

Some MRTs issue them. They're good for standing around and waiting in cold damp car parks but personally I find them way too warm to do anything active in.

 Basemetal 04 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

Buffalo user here - I replaced a 25 year old Mountain Shirt (the standard smock) just last year. I just wear the top, I tried but found the salopettes way too warm so I usually wear Montane Terra Mission trousers without any  thermals for winter climbing. I'll happily walk or climb in Buffalo either as intended with nothing under it, or over a Brynge string vest. I've simply found it the best thermal match for me across a wide range of temperatures. I like the lack of faff, and the powerful wicking effect, and how tough pertex is -I've never been scary cold in it, even belaying, and the vents are great if it heats up too much. I don't like the hood so much, as I find it restrictive so rarely carry it, preferring a beanie or a balaclava under a helmet. First time I used it it felt a bit 'bold' having one layer, but we just got on very well. I've met quite a few Buffalo users -mostly walkers rather than climbers, but these days I see more Paramo.

I do sometimes carry a hardshell (ME Kongur) if the forecast looks particularly abysmal, but I know if I put it on my Buffalo will soon be saturated underneath it so would use to only for being static in a downpour.

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/gear/help_replacing_a_buffalo-742961?v...

 TobyA 04 Feb 2023
 babymoac 04 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

I bought a Buffalo shirt back in 1998 for a trip to the Cordillera Blanca. Well used there and much since then, mainly UK winters along with the occasional alpine & ski trip. Bought a new one in Jan 2022, mainly because the old one was starting to look a bit ragged. I was using the new one in the Lakes during the cold snap in early December, full layer system on the high fells was a t shirt + buffalo, didn't even bother to get the waterproofs out the pack during the occassional snow shower. Buffalos are excellent, perfect for a chilly belay and the option to unzip the sides allows good ventilation when you're more active.

In reply to Kai:

Buffalo belay jacket best piece of kit I ever owned.

Perfect for winter, perfect for summer/cold when needed.

DC

 twoshoes 04 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

Mine's probably my most-worn top for working outside through the winter (I build dry stone walls). It works in the rain, the pocket is amazing for cold hands and it's comfy. 

But I barely wear it for anything else. It's fantastic in the right conditions, but it's too hot for me a lot of the time and it's far too bulky and heavy to stick in a bag. So I'll wear it all day at work, but when I stop off for a lamp session on the way home or head away for the weekend it gets chucked in the back of the van and a belay jacket comes out instead.

Post edited at 21:48
 Myfyr Tomos 04 Feb 2023
In reply to TobyA:

Still got and occasionally use a Patagonia jacket of a similar construction. Got it from work, must be over 20 years old now. Bulky but bombproof. It's called the Patagonia Infurno.

Used a Buffalo Mountain Shirt for a long time in Scottish winters with a Buffalo Belay Jacket over the top when it got proper chilly. Found them very comfortable. They eventually fell apart...

Post edited at 22:23
 doz 05 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

My Buffalo Mountain Shirt's over thirty years old ....summer mountain routes, hillwalking, winter climbing, seakayaking, sailing, walking the goats.......take it off in bed in the summer 

​​​​​​

 DaveHK 05 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

I used it winter climbing for years then suddenly realised it was bulky, heavy and sweaty and that there were much better options out there now.

In reply to Kai:

i got my first mountain shirt from Hamish Hamilton in the pub, it was one of his prototypes, so a mix of colours. That lasted 30 years and I replaced like for like around 10 years ago. I wear them for cold weather bouldering where there can be a lot of standing around, and training on my old home wall which was very cold in winter. The new wall will have heating😍

i wouldn’t be without one, and worth having the hood. 

 oldie 05 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

Using Buffalo for about 40 years. Very unrestrictive compared to hardshells and layers IMHO. Have Big Face Mountain Shirt (zips waist to armpits) and for winter HA Salopettes (full length leg zips). The two way zips give instant good ventilation without removing layers....I've worn the salopettes on very hot days with the legs completely unzipped and flapping. Crutch strap on shirt a with high salopettes underneath keep core warm. I often don't use in optimal way next to skin as use thermal vest to avoid frequent washing and renewal of Fabsil treatment.

Several downsides: zips tend to catch, hood too floppy, pertex a bit delicate (ripped up first shirt in a granite chimney but still use with addition of sticky tape). pile becomes flatter over the years. If soaked, cold and inactive its not that good by itself (I remember reading an account of an alpine ascent where one young member only took Buffalo and became hypothermic).

A versatile system however and I recently wore it skiing though, I don't think I cut a particularly dashing figure.

 DaveHK 05 Feb 2023
In reply to oldie:

> A versatile system however and I recently wore it skiing though, I don't think I cut a particularly dashing figure.

I think it's about the least versatile system there is. It's only usable in cold conditions and you can't change layers with temperature. Shell with multiple layers under and over is far more versatile and gives you garments you can use outwith the depths of winter.

11
 DaveHK 05 Feb 2023
In reply to oldie:

> A versatile system however and I recently wore it skiing though, I don't think I cut a particularly dashing figure.

I think it's about the least versatile system there is. It's only usable in cold conditions and you can't change layers with temperature. Shell with multiple layers under and over is far more versatile and gives you garments you can use outwith the depths of winter.

 Wooj 05 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

Yes the hood is helmet compatible and no I don’t put another layer on to belay with. I find it very warm. The key is to remove any excess space/air so if it’s not baggy and fits well it’s toasty even when I’m still for 30 mins. 

 oldie 05 Feb 2023
In reply to DaveHK:

> I think it's about the least versatile system there is. It's only usable in cold conditions and you can't change layers with temperature. Shell with multiple layers under and over is far more versatile and gives you garments you can use outwith the depths of winter. <

Its marmite indeed! In winter it often means just unzipping rather than taking layers on and off (in my experience). As I implied I think the Buffalo garments with many zips for ventilation increase the temperature range usefulness. In summer I sometimes wear a polycotton shirt and take the Buffalo for any adverse conditions and I have bivied on the Cuillin ridge with those two upper garments, albeit on a warm night. I sometimes wear the shirt with both zips undone with the crutch strap holding it well above my waist. I'm quite thin so can feel the cold, increasingly with age. Admittedly I often don't take it in summer.

 NathanP 05 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

Whilst not Buffalo or Montane Extreme, I've used Pile / Pertex, with no hard shell, for almost all my winter mountaineering for years. Initially a Rab Technical smock (Pertex over thick 'Berber Pile') but I found that a bit heavy and bulky and the cut was a bit too baggy around the front so it got in the way of easily reaching for gear off my harness. I also found the detachable hood a bit of a faff. More recently, I've used a Rab Vapour Rise Guide, with thinner pile and a much better fit, though that does need a thin fleece underneath to boost the warmth.

I only wear a hard shell if it is absolutely bucketing down with rain and, in that case, I'd really rather not be out climbing.

 felt 05 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

I have some Buffalo salopettes and wore them regularly for Munro bagging and winter camping in the 90s and 2000s. Loved them. Still got them but unused since then. Not really been cold enough for me where I've been, and I now use a combination of pyjama bottoms, cotton trousers and Deluge overtrousers. The salopettes had the useful side-effect of conditioning me not to be embarrassed wearing bib shorts for cycling.

 mutt 05 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

Yup, I wear a montane version every day, initially bought for winter climbing in Scotland but it's been my go to jacket every winter for even the most mundane child wrangling. Was out bouldering on Portland with it on Friday but it was too hot. That said I have never tried it with nowt under being of the opinion that my chest hair is nobody's but mine own affair. Perhaps I should give it a go but I'm basically a very cold person and I require multiple coats if not wearing the smock. I don't think I'll be ditching the other 3layers underneath.

 Andrew Lodge 05 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

It's the perfect system for winter climbing, far less messing about taking things on and off then with a layering system.

I have a Buffalo shirt which I've had over 30 years and a Montane Extreme smock, the Buffalo is great but my rule of thumb is I only wear it when it is below freezing when I leave the car, otherwise it will be too warm. Never wear anything underneath.

The Montane is reserved for the nastiest gnarliest weather and feels absolutely bombproof. Both brilliant garments but you have to know when to use them.

Also a fraction of the price when compared to Gore Tex layers which wear out quickly.

1
 tingle 05 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

I have never tried the thick pile stuff of buffalo and montane because it looks overkill and bulky for 99% of the things i do. But i have a marmot driclime which i assume is very similar to vapour rise and its like magic. I cycle to work in the pissing down rain and when i get there the pertex is wet but the pile and i are completely dry. I have a day out hiking in strong winds and i dont feel a thing. 

 ben b 06 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

I used a Montane Extreme smock for about 15 years (with their much better hood, wired neb and drawcords meant it actually fitted). I thought the cut was better than Buffalo, the thinner fleece at the cuffs held less water, and the reinforcements on the sleeves were welcome. Paired with a pair of karrimor fleece salopettes it was great. It was a strictly winter sub zero thing for me though; even then it could get a bit warm so the zips were usually open to terrify people with the blubbery albedo of my love handles.  On the plus side, you could put the rucksack waist belt under the smock through the zips which also helped ventilation. Amazingly, my future wife even saw me in it and didn't leave. 

After kids and moving south I didn't really get out in winter so sold it on, but when the cold spell hit Snowdonia in Dec we were over and I really missed it (especially running over Moel Siabod in the sleet when the warm front arrived). 

Never seen it in NZ though.

b

 galpinos 06 Feb 2023
In reply to TobyA:

> Patagonia made a few copies of them maybe a decade ago so they knew it worked well!

I bought my Patagonia Mixmaster in the 2004 summer sale from the Patagonia Chamonix shop so nearly two decades ago! My favourite ever winter jacket by far.

When it died I replaced it with the "Winter Guide" which was nowhere near as good. The lining was bonded to the face fabric, not a drop liner, and the face fabric was a lot stiffer. More weather resistant but less warm and nowhere near as nice to wear/climb in.

The modern equivalents, Vapour Rise and Kinesis seem to be pretty similar to the Mixmaster. I don't get out enough in winter to warrant the investment nowadys though.....

 Tricky Dicky 06 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

Lots of cavers use a fibre pile one-piece undersuit, with an appropriate oversuit (depending on type of cave). The combination works well and the system had endured for years, although fleece undersuits are sometimes worn instead.

 mattsccm 06 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

Yes but I still prefer the Helly Hansen stuff as it is finer and more comfortable. For many, pre Goretex, years my go to stuff was a HH sweater next to the skin, a wool jumper then a Rohan Pampas jacket. On cold damp days I cycle in it for long road rides and the same system often saw me the only warm person on all day, 100 mile motorcyle green laning trips. 

You can still buy HH stuff new but the supposedly ex German/Dutch army stuff is the same thing but green and cheap. 

The whole system is, to me anyway, more flexible. Just wear the pile when its warm and add a wind proof layer when it gets cold or damp.

Great apres surfing when you cannot get 100% dry. 

 TobyA 06 Feb 2023
In reply to galpinos:

Was the original Mixmaster basically a Buffalo then too? I've just did a quick Google - my one is the Patagonia Speed Ascent - seems they came out in 2009-ish. UKC even reviewed it https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/clothing/synthetic_insulation/patagonia_spe... 

In reply to mattsccm:

> Great apres surfing when you cannot get 100% dry. 

The outsized 'dry robe' things seem to have taken off, and they seem to be 'pile/pertex'...

My mum made something in a similar vein when we were kids, though it was just a tube of towelling with a gathered neck, and arm holes. Worked great for drying and changing on the beach.

 Damo 07 Feb 2023
In reply to TobyA:

> Was the original Mixmaster basically a Buffalo then too?

Not really. I used Mixmaster pants in Antarctica for several seasons, and the jacket for one season too. They had a Schoeller type woven softshell outer and a different pile inside.

Doug Scott's team attempting the Schell Route on Nanga Parbat in 92' or so used Buffalo, not sure how well, and the Montane Extrem versions have been used in Greenland and Antarctica quite a bit.

I had a Buffalo S6 for years but found it way too hot in the Himalaya and Alps so it ended its days herding cattle on the farm in winter.

 oldie 07 Feb 2023
In reply to mattsccm:

> Yes but I still prefer the Helly Hansen stuff as it is finer and more comfortable. For many, pre Goretex, years my go to stuff was a HH sweater next to the skin, a wool jumper then a Rohan Pampas jacket.......The whole system is, to me anyway, more flexible. Just wear the pile when its warm and add a wind proof layer when it gets cold or damp. <

That and Trick Dicky's post sound to be a sensible variation on the pile systems. Possibly needs more taking layers on and off than Buffalo. Incidentally HH polar mitts with a nylon outer and pile inner predated Buffalo garments and were very popular, though poor for handling things, and were noticeably warmer and tougher than Buffalo mitts....thicker outer/better pile. Now difficult to obtain. Rivalled by Dachsteins of course......they could make a whole new thread in a similar vein.

Before Buffalo stuff arrived I used HH pile tops with nylon/pu jackets and HH  pile salopettes. The latter were supposed to be underwear but I wore them in winter as outer garments and reinforced the  knees and bum. No barrier to wind, however snow used to stick to the hairy surface and form lumps of ice which then left  me really toasty (igloo principle?) though looking like a polar bear. Trouble was the elastic braces were too weak to support the weight of the ice and I needed a climbing harness to prevent them hanging down to my knees.

 MonkeyPuzzle 07 Feb 2023
In reply to the thread:

Has anyone got any experience of the Alpkit Jura? Looks like their take on the Buffalo / Extreme Smock, but I've no idea how it compares in terms of warmth to those.

Happy user of a Buffalo Active Lite Shirt in autumn and spring. I'm looking for something a bit warmer but both the Mountain Shirt and Extreme are just a little too hot for me.

 gooberman-hill 07 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

I used to swear by Buffalo kit when I lived in Scotland in the 80s / 90s. Nowdays I have a very lightweight Marmot jacket that I use for running, climbing etc. It's the same idea - pertex with a vey light micropile lining. I wouldn't swap it for anything.

I lent it to a mate for the spine, as he had nothing similar. He put it on at the start, and was still wearing it at Kirk Yeatholm! (He also had trenchfoot, but that's another story!)  

 Hutson 09 Feb 2023
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

I've got an Alpkit Jura but I can't compare it to anything else as it's the first of its kind I've had.

It's too warm for me most of the time if I'm moving, given I am in the south east. It was good in the cold snap we had, particularly when the dog wanted to take her time and hang around sniffing (she is 3-legged and likes to take her time mooching about). It was also good camping in below freezing temps with an insulated jacket over the top.

If there is proper rain then it needs a waterproof over the top; it can cope with a light shower ok (I have spray reproofed it once).

Because it's so warm I don't wear too much underneath it, usually a small vest top, but if I sweat in it it needs washing or it smells. It washes well though, it got very muddy last camp.

 Bog ninja 10 Feb 2023
In reply to ste_d:

Hi are you with Moors to the Future then? I’m up north with Peatland ACTION. I always wondered if a pile pertex would be good for surveying but thought i would overheat on the walk in

 ste_d 10 Feb 2023
In reply to Bog ninja:

Indeed I am. Depends on the site. Some are pretty quick access with no build up of steam. And others, well as you say you'd overheat on the walk in so I tend to wear vapour rise or equivalent followed by primaloft and waterproof combination on site arrival. There does seem to be quite an affection for buffalo however amongst the staff.

 Doug 10 Feb 2023
In reply to Bog ninja:

I used to wear a Montane P&P top for plant/vegetation surveying in Scotland when I didn't have too far to walk - often  could use estate tracks in places like the Monadhliath to get within a couple of Km of survey sites. But too hot to wear for long, especially if uphill, walk-ins & too bulky to want to carry.

Was looking at some photos recently & in many myself & colleagues are dressed much as we would for a winter's day but I know it was midsummer - can get quite cold if you're not moving much for an hour or more. 

 Aigen 10 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

In the 90's it was all buffalo and Ron Hills. 

OP Kai 12 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

Based on all the enthusiasm on this thread, I pulled the trigger and bought a Montane Extreme Smock.  Had to size down from my regular Montane size to get a snug but comfortable fit.  

We'll see how it works out.  

 TobyA 12 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

Hope it works well for you. I bought a Montane Extreme back around the millennium to replace my very worn Buffalo. Turned out -that year- to be a bit of a disaster. Everything else on it was a bit better designed than the Buffalo except the cut. For some reason they seemed to design them that season for people with massive beer bellies which I didn't have and fortunately 20 plus years later still haven't fully developed! :⁠-⁠) I'm sure Montane have revised their patterns since then though. I think I might have sold it on to someone on here - pretty certain it was one of my first online sales any. 

> I pulled the trigger and bought a Montane Extreme Smock.  

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/ukc/words_and_phrases_that_should_never_b... ;⁠-⁠)

Post edited at 08:53
 Brass Nipples 12 Feb 2023
In reply to Kai:

I used to have a Tog 24 Pile jacket I got in 1980.  That was also very warm, not windproof from memory.  My mother may still have it in a cupboard 

 mattsccm 13 Feb 2023
In reply to Brass Nipples:

My Tog 24 still exists. 

 Brass Nipples 28 Feb 2023
In reply to mattsccm:

I checked with my mother, looks like it went to a charity shop.

 Root1 01 Mar 2023
In reply to Kai:

I still use mine with the Salopettes. I walk in wearing a Rab Alpine Lite and swap it for the buffalo before climbing. If its really gnarly I will put a Paramo Enduro jacket over the top. Often people come in and say wasn't it a cold day today, whilst I was toasty all day. Brilliant.

 RoK 16 Mar 2023
In reply to Kai:

I know a few people that use them. Just bought a Montane extreme smock there myself for outdoor work moreso than being in the hills. 

Do what's everyone that uses this style upper wear for trousers? Surely the salopettes in pile and pertex would be a recipe for spontaneous combustion under any sort of aerobic activity. 

 mattsccm 16 Mar 2023
In reply to RoK:

Only a few minutes ago I moved the HH salopettes around in the loft. Still wear them under water proofs on the motorbike but thats about it. Strange the way they have shrunk in 40 years!

In fact I rather like the salopette idea. My winter kit, when not wiith the wife, is ofte my old Rohan super salopette and occasional when feeling scruffy/retro I dig out my canvas Berghaus Salopette. Was that the Alpen to match the Alpen canvas Jacket (which seems to have shrunk as well)?

 oldie 16 Mar 2023
In reply to RoK:

> Do what's everyone that uses this style upper wear for trousers? Surely the salopettes in pile and pertex would be a recipe for spontaneous combustion under any sort of aerobic activity. <

Not in my experience.... I've worn my Buffalo salopettes OK in blazing sun. Just completely undo the full length zips to leave just a flapping strip of material. Possibly risked arrest for indecent exposure though.

 Albert Tatlock 16 Mar 2023
In reply to Kai:

The UK military still issues their version of buffalo jackets etc, which can be bought as surplus kit for next to nothing.

it may be army green but a jacket for £30 ish  is good value and highly rated by them 

1
 ShortLock 16 Mar 2023
In reply to Albert Tatlock:

What the British Army habitually calls a "Buffalo" is a pale imitation of the real thing and not much warmer or more weatherproof than a fleece - don't buy one expecting different. They're being phased out for a synthetic insulation jacket now.

There are still a few that use actual Buffalos, but they're privately purchased.

1
 Albert Tatlock 16 Mar 2023
In reply to ShortLock:

Used the ex army equivalent for years and for £30 they are unbeatable. 

 Basemetal 16 Mar 2023
In reply to Albert Tatlock:

> Used the ex army equivalent for years and for £30 they are unbeatable. 

There's a lot of stuff on eBay calling itself army 'Buffalo style' that shows up in searches and the ones I ordered and returned were really pretty thin -like a microfleece rather than deep pile and with a thinner nylon outer. Not a bad item for the price to be fair, but nothing like as substantial as a Buffalo Mountain Shirt. So I'm guessing there's a more Buffalo-like genuine surplus version out there that you're referring to?  Might be hard to track down though.

 RoK 17 Mar 2023
In reply to oldie:

Cheers. Good to know. 


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