Kendal Wall - Training Progress

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 Rob Exile Ward 21 Dec 2022

(The reason that I suggest this goes in Off-Belay rather than the the Walls and Training section will be explained at the end...)

Having become a regular at Kendal Wall over the last year, I decided I wanted some way to track whether I was improving, staying the same of going downhill. So I started recording the lines I did each session; but then wanted to 'score' each session, so I would have a single number which I could compare from session to session. So I developed a simple algorithm to evaluate each day's results: firstly, I awarded 1 point for a 4, 2 points for a 4+, 3 points for a 5, 4 points for a 5+ and so on, up to 7 points up to a 6b; my current ceiling but it's obviously open ended. Then I weight that score by a factor according to the length of the line; any route on the main wall I award double points, any route on the King Kong section I weight by a factor of 1.5; all the rest of the lines just get the standard points.

Finally, I wanted to take into account if I tainted a route, so I knock off a point if I have a rest; I didn't make it any more complex than that, (just one point deducted even if I rest 2 or 3 times), and also don't count any routes that I don't get to the top of; they might have been legitimate training but it just becomes too complex.

So, a 5+ on Main Wall would get 8 points; a 6a+ with a rest on King Kong would get (6 x 1.5) - 1, i.e. 8 points also, and so on. I've got a spreadsheet and also an Access database to do the sums. My best day so far is 81; I had a session last week the day after a big walk and a bit under the weather and I got a miserly 42. (Yesterday was better with 66, I could have gone on but my partner had had enough. I haven't started correlating how well I do with different partners, that's obviously a possibility but perhaps best not!) 

Now, my two points are this. 1) Is this a useful exercise, or just a bit of pseudo science, and too crude to be meaningful; if too crude could it be made more meaningful in a practical (i.e. simple) way?

2) (And the reason I've posted here) is that it IS an interesting exercise for anyone who relies on stats, and particularly stats recorded and processed on a computer - which is to  say, all of us, and all of them. Everything from the basic algorithm, to the accuracy with which data is collected, to the accuracy which it is entered, is a potential weakness. (Interestingly, when I achieved a disappointing score the other day, my first reactions were that I had made a data entry error, or should tweak the algorithm; er no, giving surprising results is exactly the point of the exercise!) Big decisions are made and justified by systems with all the same potential weaknesses.

There will be people who will say 'Duh, obvious!' OK then; try it for yourself. Come up with a better algorithm, then try and collect data accurately, bearing in mind a single error of a single digit (recording a route on the Main Wall for instance) can vastly inflate achievement in a way that won't be obvious.) How many times does that happen in the real world?

2
 chris_r 21 Dec 2022
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

If you enjoy doing it, and it occasionally provides the motivation to do one more hard route, or fight on without that rest then it's worthwhile.

As a professional data analyst, part of the challenge when you see variation in data is working out is  the variation due to real change, or is it an artifact of the collection, processing or reporting. That's one of the things I enjoy about analysis.

 gravy 21 Dec 2022
In reply to chris_r:

or (as is usually the case) an artifact of the setting or simply it being a tough day for whatever reason...

If I had a pound for ever time my mate X said, "I really think I'm improving" only for all hopes of improvement to be dashed at the next reset (when grade norms were restored over a soft set)...

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Right here: 

Indoor Climbing Wall

 Tyler 21 Dec 2022
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

  I must admit I didn’t fully follow the scoring system but gamifying training is a very useful motivator. Your points score might not be perfect but a general upward trend in the number will definitely be indicative that you are getting better (on routes at Kendal wall at least). Lots of reps of an easy route might yield more points than a single hard route but be easier overall (or vice versa!). Over time you will know this and adjust accordingly or be disciplined and not take the easy option all the time. 

 mike123 21 Dec 2022
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:  you need to chat to dogging  boy ( 3leggedog ) of this parish , he’s spent hours tinkering with this kind of thing and one of the times I listened ( probably driving to Kendal wall as it happens ) I think he had it nailed . I think he might be banned at the moment though . See if you can message him ? 

 Derek Furze 21 Dec 2022
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Crikey Rob, you are taking it seriously!  I look forward to getting out in the Spring.  Plus one for Tyler's comment - anything that helps you get through sessions at the wall has got to be a bonus!

In reply to Derek Furze:

Just a bit of fun, Derek, really! I don't like wishing my life away but I'm really looking forward to spring .

 chris_r 21 Dec 2022
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

> Right here: 

Wow. Didn't know that existed. Thanks. 

F5+ and F6 routes are the most popular by an absolute mile. 

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Just a quick thread hijack. We’ve bought a house around 6 miles from Kendal and moving up towards the end of January.

I’ve only used that wall once, which was a long time ago when it opened. What’s the opinion on lead and bouldering there, or is it better to head down to Lancaster?

 Exile 22 Dec 2022
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

Leading and training better at Kendal, bouldering better at Lancaster. 

 Exile 22 Dec 2022
In reply to Exile:

And Lancaster one way system can add a considerable amount of time onto your visit if you time it wrong. 

 mike123 23 Dec 2022
In reply to paul_in_cumbria: just something to run up your ideas pole and see how it flutters in the wind . I’ve not been going much recently but several people I know from Kendal ,and around ,go to Eden rock in Carlisle . Not sure it’s made much difference for the couple of chubby numpties I  Used to boulder  with but it clearly did for the ones I didn’t .  Obviously no lead walls at Eden but but that doesn’t seem to have held them back   .

 mike123 23 Dec 2022
In reply to mike123: reply to self : I’ve now just thought of somebody who drives by Eden rock to go Kendal wall , whilst not an A list wad they are no slouch . Bugger . I should just shut up and get to work . 

In reply to mike123:

I’ll be driving up to Eden Rock anyway, as it’s my second favourite wall after The Climbingworks. I’ll hit Kendal wall too for lead, we’re aiming on restarting our Font/Alps trips again next year and need to get in shape.


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