UKH

Evening all

it’s a close friend’s birthday soon and I’d like to get them a nice book related to mountaineering.
 

My first thoughts were a first edition of The White Spider, but does anyone have any other recommendations? Anything about early welsh climbing heritage would be brilliant 

thanks in advance!

In reply to kendogcatchy:

How about 'Space Below My Feet' by Gwen Moffat? I read it this year and thought it was excellent. She spends a lot of time in Wales - not exactly what you were after, but in vaguely the right direction.

In reply to kendogcatchy:

The White Spider is a bit wired, really. Mixture of nationalism, self-promotion and arbitrary judgement on other climbers.

Whymper's scrambles is timeless and excellent for alpinism. On High Hills is poetic and gripping at times -the S Face of Taeschorn description far better than the White Spider. Can't think of anything specifically Welsh.

In reply to TechnoJim:

I’ll have a look, thank you

In reply to MG:

Thank you! Really helpful!

In reply to kendogcatchy:

A good antidote to 'The White Spider' is 'The Climb up to Hell' by Jack Olsen; but you'd have to trawl through the rather self obsessed Harrer's 'White Spider' to understand why.

Why not just go for Alan Hankinson's 'The Mountain Men'? .....a nice gentle potted history of Welsh rockclimbing

In reply to birdie num num:

Thanks! Will have a look

In reply to kendogcatchy:

I think 'The White Spider' is a great book. Unarguably a classic, and I wouldn't have minded if somebody had ever given me a first edition as a present.

If you want purely Welsh rock climbing recommendations, then I might suggest either 'Welsh Rock' by Milburn and Jones, or (more specialized) 'The Black Cliff' by Soper, Crew and Wilson.

In reply to Rob Parsons:

Or if purely Gogarth, The White Cliff.

In reply to kendogcatchy:

Climbing Days by Dorothy Pilley 

( The one by her, not the one about her written by her great nephew although that is worth a read too)

In reply to kendogcatchy:

 Not Welsh but Savage Arena, or the Boardman Tasker omnibus (which includes it) are hard to beat.

That, or the sublime A Short Walk in the Hindu Kush by Eric Newby, which contains a short but fabulous bit of Welsh climbing. 

In reply to rogerwebb:

Also Mountain Holidays, Janet Adam Smith 

In reply to kendogcatchy:

Mirrors in cliffs, or games climbers play. Both are collections of short stories, whilst not north wales specific there's such variety some will suit. 

In reply to kendogcatchy:

Rock Climbers in Action in Snowdonia by Cleare and Smythe. Or how about Mountaineering in Scotland by W H Murray? Difficult to find a 1st edition of the Murray though.

In reply to MG:

I wish I had known about that book a week ago. It would have solved a Christmas present problem!

In reply to kendogcatchy:

Two books that I have really enjoyed reading.

Fergus Fleming. Killing dragons.

Robert Macfarlane. Mountains of the mind.

In reply to Myfyr Tomos:

Second this. Also recommend 'One Man's Mountains ' by Tom Patey. Although it deals with lots of different mountain areas and climbers it's the essays on his earliest Cairngorms/Scotland exploits that resonate with me. A classic and one of the few mountain books I've read more than once.

In reply to kendogcatchy:

Mountaineering in Scotland....W H Murray....still my favourite book and with a great backstory about where he wrote some of it...

In reply to kendogcatchy:

Another vote for Welsh Rock. 

In reply to kendogcatchy:

How old are they? Many of these suggestions are going to be a real turn off for most young people. If you want a book on Welsh climbing then Welsh Rock is it, if you want one that’s ‘nice to have’ then Rock Climbers in Action in Snowdonia. 

In reply to Tyler:

Really? I was in my teens when I got my copy of 'One Man's Mountains'. Many of the most appealing parts (to me) took place either before I was born or when I was too young to be aware of. It conjured up a time and place that I knew nothing of - the post-war Cairngorm scene - and made me want to go there and see it for myself. Great writing transcends age.

In reply to kendogcatchy:

Not a classic and not really Welsh, but one of my favourites has been 'The Maverick Mountaineer: The Remarkable Life of George Ingle Finch'. 

In reply to kendogcatchy:

"Hands of a climber", the biography of Colin Kirkus. His classic VS routes are scattered over North Wales, climbing them and knowing the history behind them adds to the climbing experience.

In reply to Lankyman:

Oh well, if you enjoyed a climbing book which was no more than a couple of years old when you were a teenager then a young climber today will inevitably enjoy an 83 year old book like Climbing Days.

In reply to Lankyman:

Not really relevant to this thread but, for general info: a biography of Patey has just been published by the Scottish Mountaineering Press. See: https://scottishmountaineeringpress.com/product/one-mans-legacy-tom-patey/

In reply to Tyler:

I honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic or dismissive here? Are you suggesting that every young person has no possible interest in anything written more than a couple of years earlier? That rules out a hell of a lot. I notice you've mentioned Rock Climbers in Snowdonia which I believe is a sixties book so even older than Patey's.

In reply to Rob Parsons:

Looks good. I like the politically incorrect front cover!

In reply to Lankyman:

Smoke 'em if you've got 'em, man.

In reply to kendogcatchy:

My favourites are Maurice Herzog Annapurna and Joe Tasker Savage Arena 

In reply to kendogcatchy:

Everyone,

can I say a huge thank you! Lots to ponder here and I suspect I’ll be working my way through a lot of these myself. 
 

happy Christmas!

In reply to Lankyman:

No, I’m standing by my original statement and pointing out your own,  dissimilar, experiences from 40 years ago do nothing to dispel your concern it.

Whilst technically correct describing books from the 1930s as ‘more than a couple of years ago is stretching it’.

I never mentioned Patey’s book, you did, but agreed RIAIS is a bit old and I reckon most young climbers would prefer a guidebook. 

In reply to kendogcatchy:

Feeding the Rat by Al Alvarez. 

In reply to kendogcatchy:

I'd avoid the white spider. I don't know what the English translation is like, but in German it certainly reads like it was written by a Nazi (which I guess it was). I gave up about half way through because I couldn't be bothered wasting my time with it. I know it's considered a classic, but I think MG's summary is pretty on the money. 

In reply to kendogcatchy:

I have read myself zillions of climbing books

The 3 absolute top best I have read are IMO:

THE BLACK CLIFF

ANNAPURNA (Herzog)

EVEREST THE WEST RIDGE 

In reply to kendogcatchy:

Wade Davis and his 'Into the Silence' is a modern classic, all about the early expeditions to Everest.

In reply to kendogcatchy:

Not 'early' as such but essential to any Welsh climbing library are Paul Williams' guidebooks, especially the Llanberis one.

In reply to kendogcatchy:

The mountains of my life by Walter Bonatti

https://www.waterstones.com/book/the-mountains-of-my-life/walter-bonatti/ro...

A great read.

In reply to kendogcatchy:

I highly recommend ‘Cold Feet: Stories of a Middling Climber On Classic Peaks & Among Legendary Mountaineers’ by David Pagel, he doesn’t take himself too seriously and he has got some great stories in it and is often hilarious. He even has a few parody songs in the end in the style of Tom Patey, for example the whisky song to the air of Leonard Cohens, Hallelujah ‘’ Isle of Jura I’m not sure’a, shoots right through ya, Hallelujah!’’ I lent it to a friend and I never got it back which is a good sign 

In reply to kendogcatchy:

What no:

Total Alpinism - Desmaison 

Conquistadors of the Useless - Terray

In reply to critter:

This one, above all others. Makes Touching the Void look like a tale about a stubbed toe.

I must read this, it’s sat on my shelf glowering at me as I speak.

OP: a bit too new to be considered a classic but I’ve not long finished Time on Rock by Anna Fleming and the Welsh segment is particularly good from a cultural viewpoint.

Also, seeing as random non-Welsh books are in the mix, Native Stones by David Craig is a favourite of mine.

In reply to kendogcatchy:

David Roberts was a superb writer who happened to also be a very accomplished mountaineer. The Mountain Of My Fear about the first ascent and tragic aftermath of the first ascent of the Harvard route on Huntingdon is an all time classic and his On The Ridge Between Life And Death written late his life looking back is a brilliant examination of risk and justification in climbing - the first two chapters are some of the most gripping things I have ever read.

In reply to 65:

And the Lakes segment.

In reply to Robert Durran:

He also published at least one piece of fiction, the novella "Like Water and Like Wind" which appeared in the American magazine Ascent. Long time since I read it but remember it being very good. Wonder if its on line somewhere?

In reply to kendogcatchy:

Freedom climbers - Bernadette Macdonald 

Nanga Parbat Pilgramage - Herman Buhl

In reply to kendogcatchy:

There are the odd mention of Wales in a couple of the books below, but not specific to Wales.

The Burgess Book of Lies makes a great light-hearted, humorous read.

Both of Tony Howards Books - The Troll Wall and Quest into the Unknown are very well written, the latter covers his trips all over the world putting up new routes as well as setting up Troll and the development of the sit harness.

I do enjoy White Spider, last time I read it I was sat below the North Face of the Eiger so was a fitting read.

Humour wise The Ascent of Rum Doodle is a classic, historical Feeding the Rat and account of Mo Anthoine is a very good book.

If you are after a first edition or someone who may have something rarer or a bit different contact Linda Orritt who posts on here, she does have a stunning collection of climbing and mountaineering books (wife got me one for Christmas) and she donates the profits to Community Action Nepal.

In reply to John Kelly:

And another one of Bernadettes books - Winter 8000

In reply to critter:

That's the most gripping climbing book I've ever read.

In reply to kendogcatchy:

Nobody’s mentioned “Into the Silence” by Wade Davis, about the 1921-24 expeditions to Everest. It’s a bit of a tome but left a deep impression on me of the Everest area in the era of exploration. Vividly written with a wealth of detail. Prime spot on the bookshelf.

In reply to colinakmc:

Sean Kelly mentioned it!

In reply to kendogcatchy:

For a really gripping read, I'd recommend 'Fiva' by Gordan Stainforth, one of the most 'edge of the seat' reading experiences I've ever had.

For something a little more Welsh, Hankinson's 'The Mountain Men' or Gwen Moffat's 'Space below my feet' should fit the bill.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Yes, quite an eye opener in one part.

OP: I'll second Nicholas Livesey's recommendation of Fiva. An outstanding and gripping book.

In reply to kendogcatchy:

I am quite a fan of the White Spider and Harrer, he led an amazing life.

Seven years in Tibet is well worth a read. 

In reply to WhiteSpider88:

Yes, both amazing classics. I think it is just that some people struggle to see past the nazi issue.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Personally, I struggle more with his treatment of Corti.

In reply to craig h:

Thank you so much Craig. Reading through this thread I have most of these for sale. First editions and signed in some cases. Which would make a very special present for someone. 
I also have a new copy of Slatehead- by a Welsh climber. If a more modern book was wanted. 

In reply to kendogcatchy:

great to see more books being added - plenty to pop onto the reading list!

for info, the present is for a middle aged gent, and writings that capture ethos, atmosphere, etc are what I think he’d like  

thanks again!

In reply to kendogcatchy:

Have a look at no. 10 in this list. Not a climbing book, but Crowley was quite a mountaineer and it is signed. 😉 https://www.abebooks.co.uk/books/rarebooks/most-expensive-sales-2022

In reply to kendogcatchy:

Maybe Jim Perrin's book "The life of John Menlove Edwards" if you want early climbing and Welsh, but he was a troubled soul so it may not be easy reading on every page, but a great climbing pioneer 

In reply to Myfyr Tomos:

I like him and all… but… ehem!

Agree with Space Below My Feet and I've just finished Two Star Red, her book about RAF mountain rescue, which was a fabulous read, albeit hard to get a copy (not just Wales though - also quite a lot in Scotland).

One Green Bottle is very much Wales, but also a novel very much of its time - still great and I would have loved it when younger but perhaps not your thing if you're not into the romantic subplots as well. 

(I am uncertain where I sit within the UKC definition of 'young').

In reply to kendogcatchy:

One classic that hasn't so far received a mention is Paul Pritchard's superb first book, Deep Play. The fact that Pritchard has won the Banff and the Boardman Tasker (twice) gives some idea of his quality. While this first volume of autobiography doesn't relate to early Welsh climbing heritage, it does paint a fascinating picture of an equally important period in the development of  Welsh climbing, Llanberis in the 80s/90s.

In reply to Queen of the Traverse:

If people struggle to get hold of 'One Green Bottle' it's in a cheaper and easily found anthology 'One Step in the Clouds' edited by Audrey Salkeld and Rosie Smith.  'June on Skye' is another equally good Coxhead climbing novel,  but is even harder to find.

I really enjoyed all the tales of the early major mountaineering ascents in my youth but less so now given the barely hidden nationalism and risk glorification in too many (especially 'Annapurana' and 'The White Spider'). I prefer the more modern mountaineering publications or rock climbing tales. My antidote to the death or glory stuff would be David Roberts' books (as per Robert Durran above) or those of Maria Coffey (Where the Mountain Casts its Shadow...etc).

For a modernish rock climbing book, Jules Lines' 'Tears of the Dawn' is my favourite of many excellent biographies, as it's so beautifully written.... maybe too obscure for a first book... best for a jaded climbing book reader seeking descriptive quality (Alverez will have already been read); Harrison's novel 'The Climbers' also fits that bill but is rather grim, masculine and lancastrian. Helen Mort's latest might too, but its on my to read list.

In reply to Offwidth:

Great recommendation. Along with Johnny Dawes"s Full of Myself I think this is the most stylistically interesting climbing autobiography since Pritchard. Some of the writing has a poetic intensity. If, like me, you enjoy soloing (at modest grades!)  it's a fascinating insight into the psyche of someone who operates at the limit.

Of course, Full of Myself also deals with some of the most important developments in Welsh climbing in a unique style - and you can still get signed first editions!

In reply to sjminfife:

I haven't read it but would have thought Kirkus's "Let's Go Climbing" would fit bill pretty well

In reply to ripper:

I haven't read "Let's go climbing" but I am sure he would enjoy a classic. I found "Hands" interesting because of Kirkus's spartan lifestyle, eating and cycling from Manchester(?) to North Wales to climb at the weekends. Also whatever grade you climb at a Kirkus route is always a joy and there's plenty of them at an amenable VS.

In reply to Andy Clarke:

Hah!... I've helped Johnny sell his masterwork on the streets of Kendal when they kicked him out of a festival venue, like an illegal hawker. I think it's fabulous but liking it for the much same reasons you do makes it more niche in a niche market. His book and extended DVDs are bargains in my view.

In reply to kendogcatchy:

Just to say a huge thanks to Linda Oritt who got me a fantastic condition copy of Scrambles in the Alps.

If you're not aware she's got a huge range of  classic climbing books, and sells them to raise funds for Community Action Nepal - can't recommend her enough - total star!

In reply to kendogcatchy:

Fully agreement that Linda is a total star and the money goes to a great cause.

In reply to Andy Clarke:

I second Prichard, I thought I was in good company while reading the book. Perhaps in a similar vein, Mark Twight's Kiss or Kill?