UKH

So, I'm currently chilling with a beer in Milan. I was expecting to go on a 9 day commercial expedition. This got cancelled today, with less than 5 days notice. I was planning on doing a bit of mountaineering in the Aosta valley, having a few days backpacking tourism (where I am now) followed by this great looking exped.

I'm feeling a bit annoyed about this, especially with the very short notice cancellation. I'm not at work, therefore not earning money (no holiday pay for me). I've poked my friends and stuck a post up on the "lifts and partners" bit of UKC, to see if I can get some sort of climbing trip going. If not, I'm left with doing some European backpacking with a expedition load. Which, TBH, I do quite enjoy.

Because of the type of exped I was meant to be doing next week I haven't got half the kit I need to be in the Alps. I've got B2's, but no crampons or axe. Harness, but no rock shoes. No rack or rope. No tent or bivi bag. If I do sort out some climbing trip I'm going to have to buy some gear which I already own

This is with a small, reputable, UK based company that's been around for a few years. I don't want to go too arsey with them as I've got a bigger/higher trip with them later in the year. I'm also not going to name and shame them here, they probably don't deserve that. I think (hope) this is a one off, though this isn't filling me with confidence for the next trip.

They're going to get back to me next week about refunds, but I feel that I'm severely out of pocket and that a straight refund will not cover either; A) my loss of not working for two weeks or B) the cost of kit purchase (to duplicate what I already own) plus two weeks of food and accommodation in the Alp. Did and accommodation was included in the exped, but I'm going to have to pay a lot more for it now.

What would you guys do?

Cheers in advance,

Chris

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

What was the reason for the cancellation - did they give a viable excuse? If the guides are ill or the routes have been closed due to safety I might think differently than if they say didn't feel it was worth running due to poor numbers.

Getting back to you next week about refunds sounds odd, although perhaps understandable if the number of employees is small and on the hill. This should have been an immediate consideration. 

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

Alta via across the Dolomites taking in vfs? All you would need would be a vf kit, and a sleeping bag liner for the huts...

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

I feel your pain. This happened to me for a dream trip a few years ago. My visa was refused with 3 or 4 days to go. This was beyond the influence of the trip organiser though, I don't know what happened to yours. Hopefully the next one will happen.

The extra gear and being in the Alps is unfortunate but that is circumstantial and not the responsibility of your guiding/travel company. Unless you did it by phone and handshake, there should be a contract stating under what circumstances you will and will not get refunded and how much. Read the small print and good luck.

I should add, following from Southern Steve's reply, that don't get too concerned initially if communication seems haphazard, tardy or vague.  I get the impression that there are quite a few guiding units who mean well, are very good at the guiding bit and will ultimately not let you down but are lacking in what might be termed professional levels of communication and admin.

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

I would check my travel insurance to see what’s covered, though I doubt indirect costs of being ‘stuck’ in the Alps would be.

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

Are you going in and out of the same airport? Can you not leave the excess kit in a locker?

In reply to PaulJepson:

Short answer; no.

In reply to SouthernSteve:

I agree, and they said numbers

They're out somewhere.

In reply to cavemancolumbus: Some clarity here ---- what sort of 9 day expedition? And this as part of a longer trip?  How long are you off work?  So someone can suggest an alternative plan. 

I'd agree 5 days isn't much notice, and if it's just numbers, poor form

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

Name and shame. Cancelling due to low numbers 2 months in advance maybe, but 5 days is taking the piss and they should honour the accommodation. 

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

Totally don't get this point of view.  You wouldn't be shaming them,  you'd just be stating a fact. If that fact reflects badly on them then they'd be shamed by their actions, and if what they've done is righteous then they'd get support for their actions.  Either way, you reporting accurately and objectively ( as you can) on what THEY have already done is not the wrong thing to do.

Withholding the name of the company just makes a mockery of the whole thread.  You don't think they deserve having the facts of the situation laid bare...  why not? They're facts.  You are worried about your next trip, and think it might be at risk. So you want our input. But you're not willing to give us the key bits if info that might help us to make an informed decision on using that company.

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

Cancelling 5 days out due to low numbers is extremely poor, I'd be wanting all my money back and written reassurance this second trip is still on. It's not just poor admin, this is dreadful customer service. 

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

That sucks,

As others have said you could head to the Dolomites or the Écrins and do some Via Ferrata and walking. You may need a car and hire lanyards etc and new accommodation, but you may get something a cheaper as coming out of season. Ok extra cost but at 5 days notice I would expect you would get a full refund as they pulled it (do check contract).

If heading ecrins way I have a free Via Ferrata app guide, just search ecrins briancon Via Ferrata where you get your apps.

The other option is the climbing shops near me do rock shoe hire, and most people round here will have the other kit if you find people to climb with, there are a few Facebook groups for finding people.

hope you get something done.

cheers

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

I am sure I have seen at least one OP with a tale very like this previously in a similar area. Last time IIRC it was an inexperienced female in a similar position to the OP. This must be 3 or 4 years ago due to the pandemic. I think that thread ran and ran. Cannot be bothered searching for it, but if anyone cares to look, it will be there.

In reply to Godwin:

That one involved "No boundaries" IIRC:

https://www.no-boundaries.co.uk/

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

BY the way, if you do head to the Dolomites and want to drop off your kit for a week, I am sure I could help you sort something out. I have a place not far from Marmolada so you could at worst leave kit in our garage.

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

You don’t say where your course was meant to be but if in Europe it’s coming to the end of the season so many guides might have capacity and some of them have their own accommodation so might be worth giving them a call, e.g. https://www.frostguiding.co.uk/

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

A lot depends on their reasons for cancelling. The short notice is very disappointing, but it depends what their T&Cs say. It does appear that you will be refunded so you shouldn't lose out on the cost of the trip. 

However it's not their fault that you had decided to travel out early. You were going to lose a week's pay by going on their trip, so by choosing to stay in Italy you are no worse off in that respect. You could return home and go back to work (I realise it may not be quite as simple as that).  If you choose to extend your holiday, albeit not in the way you'd planned, they are not responsible for your accommodation and other costs.

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

That is terrible customer service and I do think you should name and shame - I don't want to inadvertently use them! They are never going to get better if they can get away with stunts like this and it would also give the company an opportunity to offer a more detailed account of the circumstances that might appease the outraged of UKC.

They have effectively known that this was going to happen or likely to happen for sometime. How many people book this kind of trip on a whim? I would be very miffed, but I doubt you will be compensated. What were they thinking? In any job with a strict staffing rota, you cannot just swap holidays with 5 days notice and go back to work. Very poor.

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

Feel your pain and frustration but think Tyler has a good idea here. 

You're out in the alps and getting a refund, so why not get the credit card out, book a trip with an outfit in the alps and hire their gear. Might turn out better than your original plan! 

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

Cancelling a 9 day trip for low uptake 5 days out is taking the piss. They must have known, and were hoping for a miracle in the last week.
Wouldn't feel bad naming them; I'm also keen to know so I can avoid this company.

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

Id expect them to tell you if the trip is confirmed, or subject to numbers when you book. And if subject to numbers to let you know what the timescale is for them to decide if it's running.

Most bookings require you to pay the full balance X weeks before traveling. At that point I would expect the trip to be confirmed as happening, even if people pull out they still have the money so the trip is financially viable even if you are the only client.

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

OP

If you paid with a credit card (and some debit cards) then you can force a refund via 'Section 75' if they play up about refunding you.

you need to go through their process first and wait for 30 days to elapse.  Then raise the claim.  Dead easy to do and foolproof

In reply to michaelb1:

Indeed. Again, if you need help with contacts in the central and western Dolomites  I have plenty of names for you...

In reply to Godwin:

Yeah this one https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/rock_talk/cancelled_trip-705266?v=1#x8996...

I remember it really clearly as that poor lass' trip to Finale was cancelled because of poor weather.  I was there at the time and it was lovely.

There was also a second thread under a competition run by them (doesn't show up in my search) where their record on things like this, and the T&C's of the competition were widely questioned. 

IIRC one of the guys logged on and insulted everyone.  The other was more accommodating and said he would check the details of the above thread and get back to us.  And never did.

Really hope it wasn't these guys again.

In reply to Iamgregp:

It wasn't No Boundaries. 

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

Thank goodness!

Best of luck getting this all resolved, hope you're able to make the best of a really unfortunate situation, and that the company you're booked with are able to reach a good resolution with you.

Do enjoy Aosta, the food and wine there (I'm told) is some of the best in Italy!

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

I'm off to do the AV 1&2 in the dolomites. I reckon it's the best thing I can do given time and kit. It's going to be awesome, though slightly quick given how long I have before I go back to work.

Cheers for all the advice, it's good to hear different viewpoints and has made me adda few things to the sightly annoyed email that I'm sending them.

Cheers everyone.

Chris

In reply to cavemancolumbus:

So, having had the benefit of the knowledge of all the people on this thread ( apart from me obvs, cos I don't really know the area/options) are you going to reciprocate and give them the benefit of knowing the company that left you in this situation and thus reduce the likelihood of it happening to them?