UKH

Saw this attached for sale sign at the start of the rocky lane leading up to Masson Lees yesterday. Anyone know anything more?

In reply to mattdearden:

interesting. I’m trying to ween myself off ML. It’s just too loose for safety. 

In reply to PaulTanton:

Yeah, best avoided on a hot weekend when it's inevitably busy. One of the low 6's on the sunny side has had some hangers removed, and there was what looked like a large chunk of the route lying at the base with blood across it.

On a couple of other occasions, pretty large chunks have come off routes on the shady side. The routes can look okay-ish from the ground, but can turn very loose higher up. Combined with a demographic of climbers that seem less experienced outdoors, they're generally more prone to pulling on anything they can reach without a proper assessment.

At least helmets are common.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Ye, there was a rescue there the other day I believe?

The right side with Hilti etc seems pretty solid but the easy slabs and the orange wall are getting absolutely battered atm! Helmets are a must.

On a side note, does anyone want to go halfs?

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

I was told that the dark side was just a big wafer of rock on the hillside. Not been to the to to verify this.

I tried Grand Theft Auto a few weeks ago. The top section of that is lethal. Best avoided.

In reply to PaulTanton:

I tried GTA and traversed onto Woof Justice about half way, it looked awful above.

And one of the big chunks I mentioned came off the top half of The Cows, the route to the right of GTA.

In reply to Euan McKendrick:

There was one when I was there about 3 weeks ago. Is that the one you mean?

Nowt to do with loose rock that one, best not conflate the issues.

In reply to Iamgregp:

Well if there was a more recent accident that did include rock fall then it wouldn't be a conflation. 

I'm rather fond of Masson but it is a Peak quarry and there is a fair amount of loose bits there - just like all the other quarries really. It is also the sport cliff where I've seen some of the most surprising things. Some lads sieging the 6a that doesn't currently have a lower off because of the rockfall last winter, and one of them turns around and asks a stranger at the crag to check their knots! It's sensible for them to ask if they weren't sure but it was arguably a bit late by then. They didn't have helmets which made their route choice seem a bit less than wise. The same evening another chap managed to do a back flip off a 5c, which was terrifying to watch, he just righted himself and tried again! 

In reply to Euan McKendrick:

Yes, I will , you can have most of it, I'll have the tooling cave, after all we've spent a lot of cash on that over the last couple of years so I'll use that as my deposit!

In reply to TobyA:

Absolutely, that’s why I asked if was  the one he meant!

It was my first visit to Masson Lees, thought it was excellent. 

In reply to Euan McKendrick:

how much is it?

In reply to patsaunders:

Its for auction along with 42 acres of pasture land. Maybe worth approaching the agent to see whether they'd sell the quarry separately if you're interested. 

In reply to patsaunders:

Wasn't the guide price £500k?

In reply to Ramon Marin just had a look on the auction website and it doesn't seem to be listed yet.....

In reply to UKB Shark:

Good point, need to make sure you have legal approach to the land though. 

In reply to Graeme Hammond:

There is a public footpath from matlock that comes out by the gate into the quarry 

In reply to patsaunders:

If we sell some more shoes I reckon we can afford it 😛

In reply to mattdearden:

I wonder if the quarry could be bought separately from the rest and if the BMC is sitting on a pot of gold (yes this is Very wishful thinking) or some wealthy peak benefactor could buy it for the BMC? Not super likely but you can dream...

(or maybe because of the loose, it'd be a legal liability for the BMC and they don't have bargepoles long enough)

In reply to CantClimbTom:

Doesn't seem to have been a blocker to them owning Horseshoe Quarry!

In reply to CantClimbTom:

I think the crags the BMC has bought have been for nominal sums. We don't want to encourage land owners to start selling at market prices otherwise it'll be the end of any further crag acquisition, and possibly see use charged for like it was on SS

In reply to Iamgregp:

They only own the solid-ish bits of HQ. But then they do own  Aldery Cliff as well...

In reply to dr_botnik:

Old quarries are a liability for any owner who doesn't want to start working them again. If a body like the BMC was offering to take it it might make the rest of the parcel more attractive.

In reply to pancakeandchips:

But they're a liability for the BMC too, especially if they have fixed gear.  I think they'd be unwise to take on Harpur Hill, for instance, if it ever became available.  I've only climbed on Masson Lees once, but it struck me as reasonably high risk.  

In reply to Dave Garnett:

To preface this, I fully admit that I don't really know what I'm talking about.

But wouldn't the participation statement cover this? If someone was hurt due to loose rock at, eg, Bwlch y Moch surely the BMC wouldn't be liable? I guess fixed gear does change the calculus somewhat, but to what extent?

In reply to Dave Garnett:

The main danger that evening seemed to be becoming collateral damage to a plummeting southerner on an adjacent route!

In reply to pancakeandchips:.

I think the short answer would be 'nobody knows', but you're probably right that a trad venue is less of a risk, legally.  I think a clear disclaimer pointing it out it's dangerous and that you are there at your own risk (like the participation statement) might well be enough.

However, once there is fixed gear I think there's an argument that users have a reasonable expectation that it's fit for purpose and maybe that established sport routes are free from lethal loose blocks etc.

I've just got back from South Africa and it occurred to me that there was a parallel with game reserves.  Some have unfenced camps, and big signs at the entrance pointing out that you might be eaten by a lion.  Others have fenced camps within the reserve.  I think that if someone was eaten by a lion at one of these, and it turned out there was a hole in the fence, that's a completely different situation.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Just speculating, but I guess the BMC are worried that if it ever did go to court the calculus would be 'very popular venue + owned by national sporting body = reasonable expectation of fixed gear in good condition and routes that aren't complete death traps'.  If they're worried about this sort of liability it's hard to see them buying Masson, on the scale of things it's a pretty loose venue.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

I'm sure you're totally correct. It seems a bit mad to me that anyone in their right minds would imagine that clipping bolts in a chossy quarry could be anything like as safe as a controlled commercial environment like a climbing wall but we are where we are. A big part of climbing is personal responsibility, whether that be gear placements, avoiding loose rock or not clipping suspect bolts, but unfortunately that's a climber's perspective and not the view that a court might take.

In reply to remus:

Yes - it would be reasonable to expect a more expert application of duty of care at a venue owned by the BMC. The fixed gear if placed in line with best practice should demonstrate that the duty of care requirement was met. I don’t know, but assume that the BMC Access and Conservation Trust carries out a risk assessment of the rock stability at places like Horseshoe Quarry and that may be a requirement of the insurers. 

In reply to patsaunders:

Auction guide price £275,000 - £300,000

"Approx. 42.5 acres of pasture and amenity land and a 7.5 acre quarry."

To be sold by auction on 26th September.

https://www.bagshaws.com/property/land-off-salters-lane-matlock-de4-2pa/

In reply to mattdearden:

Thank goodness for that.

It could have sold for a few million if planning permission looked favourable. At that price it looks like there's no chance of permission.