UKH

I have been looking at softshells for weeks now and keep coming back to the Rab Borealis. The only thing is that I feel I want a medium weight with a brushed lining, so I end up stuck in a Rab loop eventually ending up at the borealis and deciding (again) that it may be the right one. It is mainly for hiking with a bit of scrambling, gully’s and the odd bit of climbing. Comeragh Mountains (Ireland) so windy and sometimes cold but rarely snow, mostly fog so a bit damp, but have my hard shell for rain anyway.  Today I found a jacket that seemed perfect (Mountain Equipment Vulcan) but it’s out of stock most places and I was also hoping to find something under €150 (£140) - any ideas? Normally wear over a thin base, R1 Air mid.

In reply to Bash:

Pretty different jackets. Rab is a membrane-free, lightweight SS; a heavyweight windshirt, essentially (300g). ME is a Gore ePTFE membrane 'SS'; not quite a waterproof, and 790g.

Probably need to decide what you are really looking for; robust windproof? Warmth? Waterproof?

In reply to Bash:

How about the Rab VR summit?

It's brush lined, med weight, wind resistant and pretty light. I've got one and it's ideal for a wide variety of conditions with great ventilation.

https://www.trekitt.co.uk/clothing/jackets/rab-mens-vr-summit-jacket-ink__4...

In reply to Bash:

Or M E Kinesis, bit more heavyweight (seriously impressed with the look of this jacket). 

https://ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/kinesis-insulated-jacket/

In reply to Bash:

For much cheaper alternatives check out your local builders merchant. Popular construction industry clothing made by Dickies is the same company as TNF. 

In reply to Bash:

IMHO heavyweight PTFE-lined softshell jackets (and especially when they are also fleece-lined) have almost no place in a modern layering system anymore. They had their place when hardshells were heavier, less breathable and less comfortable than they currently are but nowadays it makes much more sense to combine a lightweight softshell such as the Rab Borealis or Torque with a good midlayer such as the R1 Air. Alternatively have a look at windproof/breathable modern insulation layers such as the ME Kinesis, Arc'teryx Proton LT/SL or the MH Kor Strata line.  

In reply to VictorM: Thanks VictorM and everyone else for the replies. I do need to decide what I am looking for, but just as a bit of background, I have been away from hillwalking for 8 years and it seems that lots has changed in that time. I have dusted down all of my gear (including my craghoppers Bear Grylls Windshield that served me very well since 2012 but just doesn’t fit any more. I think that I do need to try out the newer soft shells and have faith that the newer midlayers will take care of the heat and only a thin outer that is wind proof is needed. I have a choice of 3 that I could easily expand again to more - the borealis, torque and VR Summit. In fact from a price perspective I could be best to go with a thin base, R1 Air Hoody and a Borealis - anyone use this combo in windy conditions? My base layer is a Lowe Alpine - I can’t even tell what material as it is so old it has warn away, but probably cost less than 30 euro - if I go with a Borealis, I might find that only the base layer needs tweaking come the cold weather. Thanks for all the help with this. 

In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

+1 for the Rab VR Summit, been really impressed with it. A bit too warm for summer days, but 3 seasons and evenings it's great, comes into it's own in winter mountains with just light base layer underneath. ME Kinesis is similar, though I couldn't find one when I was buying, otherwise might have gone with one.

I have a Rab Borealis but that's reserved for belaying on windy edges in warmer weather, which it's absolutely perfect for. It doesn't breathe as well as the VR, I wouldn't want to be working hard in it.

In reply to Bash:

We're all different, but I would never buy a lined softshell. I personally think that silly lightweight and low-bulk jackets like the ME Squall make for the best 'default' jackets in the mountains, supplemented by a suitable midlayer if it's cold, and with a waterproof if it's wet. Combining two functions into one jacket just limits the scenarios in which it performs well. 

In reply to midgen:

I'd agree with the principles that midgen and others are putting forward above. My own progression of softshells has been a heavy North Face thing ages ago that was always too hot at any activity level, a medium-weight Montane that I love for mountain multi-pitch (unless it's warm), and the addition of a Rab Borealis last year.

I bought the Borealis as a lighter version of the medium-weight Montane. I'm increasingly fond of just a thin softshell and tuning the layers below. For mountain routes I've found the Borealis to be great - paired with the right layers below, there's great flexibilty. Like many, I've got enough old base layers and worn out fleeces that I can tune things pretty well under the Borealis.

I would however echo the comments about activity levels though. I've never used a classic softshell that didn't overheat when working hard and I'd include the Borealis in that. I think if I was buying a jacket prioritised for hiking/scrambling, and those varying energy outputs, then I'd lean towards fabrics that maximes breathability (like VR).

I absolutely love the RAB Torque. I think its a good middle ground of everything. I am onto my second now.  I use it for quite honestly everything from climbing, scrambling, hiking, running, wearing to the shops.  I also wear it all year round. 

Its not lined so I can wear it both in summer and winter, if I do get it wet / sweat into it the single layer helps it dry out reasonably quickly.  I am a sweaty monster so I am sure others will disagree but my personal experience of the VR line is that it takes a fair while to dry.  

Its stretchy, which again for me I think is an essential thing (my pet hate in life is restrictive trousers....) - especially when climbing / scrambling, the last think I want is to feel restricted.  

The material feels quite robust, I dont have any fears that I will rip it, or if I did I think it would sew up reasonably well.  Its hard to describe, but the material feels quite nice against the skin too (its rough but dosent feel horrible) - I have had a few wind shirts and against bare skin they just seem to stick and feel 'blugh'!

Its waterproof enough and windproof enough.  In rain it will wet though, in a gale the wind will get though.  But the average UK 'meh' weather is fine.  I have a very thin long sleeve hooded shirt / baselayer thing I have had for ages from RAB (along the lines of Force hoody but with a half zip front) which I wear under the Torque if its cold or windy.  And I have a thin Paramo windshirt (Enduro?) which I wear over the top if its raining.  That kinda sees me though everything but the extremes of weather. 

The negatives of it is some specimen put the front pockets on the wrong way around.  Personal preference but I would like them the other way around so I could put my hands in them and look like a hero.  Being stretchy (or me being fat?) it runs on the slightly tighter side so you start to look a bit odd when you cram lots of layers under it. 

I think thats about it? Oh and it comes in bright yellow so shows all the dirt and how good at climbing you are! 

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As for the RAB VR collection, I have not had any of there new stuff or experience with the VR Summit.  But I own a VR Guide (I know its a lot heavier weight than you are looking at) and I used to own the VR Alpine Light. 

The Guide I could live in - its actually my go to 'winter coat' for almost everything as its so comfy and soft.  In the hills its way to warm for almost everything. 

The VR Alpine Light was nice.  It could be worn in most conditions and small / light enough to carry on summers days for a bit of warmth / wind protection if needed.  A lot more waterproof and windproof than the Torque. 

I really liked it but I just struggled to get on with it.  The inner material infuriated me - It was nice against skin but for some reason the base layers I wore just acted like velcro to it (the Guide dosent have this problem?) so every time I took it off it ended up inside out. 

I have never damaged a VR product, but the material does (well it is) thinner than the torque and I just feel that it might rip easier on something if caught - although this has never happened and I dont know anybody it has happened to, its just my feeling. 

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I dont think you could go far wrong with anything from the VR line or the Torque.  Personally I prefer single layer soft shells and adding my own lining in the form of another layer - but thats just me. 

In reply to Andrew95:

I actually pulled the trigger on a Rab Borealis about 20 minutes before this post went up. There doesn't seem to be any option to change it (Bergfreunde) and the more I look at the reviews of the torque, the more I think this would have been the better option. I'll just have to see how I get on with the Borealis over an R1 Air hoody but think it will do the job, and if it doesn't, the torque will go on to the christmas wish list!

In reply to Bash:

I haven't seen the Borealis in the flesh, but looking at Rab's own website it looks really nice.  I am not sure if you have seen or not but they have a little 'how it performs' chart at the bottom and assuming is correct the borealis comes out on top for everything. 

In reply to Andrew95:

Yes, all the reviews look great for it. Its the low price point that has me wondering and nothing else. As a further twist, I just spotted someone selling a Tab Kinetic Plus 2.0 in the gear sale section...

In reply to Bash:

I love the Rab Borealis and have it in various incarnations (it's changed names a few times down the years). However, as others have said, it's a particular beast. I love it for climbing, as it basically eliminates wind, but it regulates your temperature really well. If it's really sunny, you won't overheat in it and if it's blowing a hoolie, you won't die. However, I wouldn't say it's the best thing for keeping you warm (unless the wind is the primary factor in robbing your heat). What the Borealis does well is aid you in maintaining your body at the ambient air temperature. 

To my mind, it is not what I would describe as a 'soft shell', it's a stretchy wind shirt. To give you an idea, the material is about the same thickness as a synthetic baselayer. 

If you wanted something to keep you warm, you'd need to pair it with a grid fleece like the Nexus. 

In reply to tehmarks:

I love the Squall. It’s my go to summer alpine softshell layer. It’s just a bit too tight for the colder months of the year but the Rab Torque with a good midlayer is perfect for those. Also, the previous version with double front pockets is great for stuffing gloves. 

In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

+1 for the Kinesis jacket. I have one and it has performed very well. Nice brushed lining makes in comfortable to wear in the wet.

It was reviewed on UKC last year: https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/clothing/softshell/mountain_equipment_kines...

In reply to Bash:

Try the ME Frontier.

If it's wetter than it can cope with, you'll have a hardshell on.  If it's not warm enough, jumpers exist (or move faster).  Often reduced in sales too.

Softshell clothing can be an elegant solution sometimes, but a lot of the time in British (and Irish) conditions it's a solution looking for a problem.  Don't believe the marketing and don't go mad spending money on it.

T.

In reply to Bash:

I've never worn the Borealis but I do have the Torque.

I really like it, but it is slightly on the heavy side. If the Borealis turns out to be somewhat as robust as the Torque and retains some of the water resistance properties then it may be the better jacket for you being 30% lighter.

In reply to Bash:

i have the Borealis and use it for warmer weather hiking, scrambling and climbing and love it, it’s very light weight packs into its own pocket and surprisingly warm. For colder weather I use an older Rab Alpha Flux huddy that I love. I climb in that when it gets colder and it has stood up well to years of grit stone chimneys  and cracks. 
but layering is very subjective so get something that works and you will be happy, hope you get on well with the Borealis, I would definitely get another if anything happened to mine. And they are relatively cheap for a soft shell.

In reply to Kryank:

Thanks for the reply - that helps a lot. I'll be layering with a Patagonia R1 Air hoody with a thin base layer / compression top under that when the temperature (hopefully) drops a bit

In reply to Tony Buckley:This is my go to jacket. So much so I have it in 2 sizes depending on how much layering is going to be required.

In reply to David Bennett:Oops, actually I was referring to the Mission not the Frontier

In reply to Andrew95:

Me too! I've been wearing mine a lot for several years, for everything, it's had loads of use but doesn't show it - and it's still pretty waterproof. I particularly like its slim fit, high front and low back for under a harness; but roomy up top, longish arms, and stretchy too for shoulder freedom. Great jacket