Alpine axe/other kit choices

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 it624 03 May 2022

Hi all,

I'm heading to Chamonix mid-June to do a few Alpine routes with friends. We're all experienced in Scottish winter up to II/III, have done a fair quantity of trad, and a bit of UK-based training on glacier travel and similar. (This bit is just to try and stem the "you don't know what you're doing, you shouldn't be there" replies....)

Various guidebooks etc recommend plenty of kit options re: ropes clothing etc, but I can't find a good source for what kind of axe(s) people carry on routes up to say AD-. Is a single axe like a DMM Cirque appropriate, or is a pair necessary? I'm sure this has an element of preference to it, but I'd enjoy hearing some opinions.

As a corollary to this, do people have any other gear recommendations - either to take or avoid, especially things that the guidebooks might not suggest!

 VictorM 03 May 2022
In reply to it624:

This will be very route dependent I would say, mostly dependent on the steepness of the ice and ice conditions. I'd say for anything up to about 45-55 degrees and especially on névé  one axe should be enough and you can make one axe work on steeper terrain than that as well but I'd take a pair of shortish and not too curved axes. I have a pair of Venoms for that kind of stuff. Full on technical axes would be overkill I think. 

 thegrowler1981 04 May 2022
In reply to it624:

It’s my first trip out to the Alps in May, planning on climbing AD to D face routes. After extensive research I went for the Petzl Quarks as these are a nice balance between a technical and classic axe. I would say a pair of axes would be the best choice. Can always attach 1 to your pack if not needed whilst walking a ridge line etc.

2
 pdone 04 May 2022
In reply to it624:

I'd second VictorM above.  A single Cirque (50-55cm) would normally be fine.  However if you plan to climb a route with a significant amount of steepish ice/neve then you would probably be more comfortable - and quicker - with a second tool. 

Gear recommendations?  Why not make up a few 120cm slings from 6mm cord? These can also be your Prusiks/abseil tat/extenders. 

On rocky routes of the standard you mention most of your protection would normally be natural (flakes, blocks, spikes) but it would also be a good idea to have a very small selection of nuts and perhaps 2 or 3 cams which are usually quicker to place and remove than nuts.   

1
 Suncream 04 May 2022
In reply to it624:

I think it really depends what type of route you're doing. You say up to AD-. Glacier approaches to rock routes? One axe will be fine. Classic ridges? One axe will be fine. Easy snow gullies? Two would definitely be preferable. But personally I wouldn't really want to do the latter in June, especially with this year's snow cover.

 mcawle 04 May 2022
In reply to it624:

Have you already got axes from Scottish winter? If so, which one(s)?

If you have a pair of technical or semi-technical axes, I'd throw them in the bag and then if in doubt take a walking axe with a technical axe as back up.

I'd echo the view that it really does depend on the route.

In my somewhat limited experience one mountaineering axe (I use a DMM Raptor) is good for most stuff up to AD, but not all. E.g. the more moderate face climbs on the Tacul (Contamine Grisolle etc.) are definitely two axes for most people. And depending on the conditions even single axe routes can get interesting if steep snow slopes are icy - e.g. on the Rochefort last year there is an abseil down a 50-55 degree slope in the middle of the route (you come back the same way), and when we did it it was hard ice. A fixed rope had been placed to aid return but it was frozen into the ice from part way down. We had a single axe each.

My friend had the forethought to leave a bunch of our slings and draws to act as substitute fixed gear up the steeper section on our return, and we were glad for it - we'd have got up it with single axes, I'm sure (or could have maybe let the leader go up with both), but without the fixed gear a second axe would have been desirable at least for the leader.

I also heard that a lot of people were glad of two axes on the approach to the Forbes last year (and the descent!), although I didn't do it myself.

Conversely stuff like Cosmiques and the Entreves, Marbrees traverses should be fine with a single axe.

(I know most of the routes I've mentioned are AD rather than AD- but I'm not aware of that many AD- routes around Cham off the top of my head and I can imagine the desire to get on some of the AD classics may be there if you're going well.)

 montyjohn 04 May 2022
In reply to it624:

I'm in a similar position to you. I went with a pair if Grivel Air Techs (53cm). I'm doing a route with a short exposed 45 degree bit on it. I may only need the one axe, but thought belts and braces. I'd rather have it and not need it.

 seanhendo123 04 May 2022
In reply to it624:

If you have some quarks or similar I would recommend taking them. They are not too technical to use as a single for proper single axe ground and the pair are ideal to cover more technical ground safely. Depending on your skill level a lot of AD ground can certainly be covered with a single but would be much more comfortable with a pair and so faster, safer and more fun. Also an axe like the quark will get better 'sticks' and you'll be grateful for them when coming across older glacial grey ice even if just using a single.

I've done the midi plan twice (first time didn't actually summit the Aiguille du Plan as we were punters - set off far too late and glacier/snow slopes were porridge), the  first time with a walking axe and second time with a pair. Pair were far better and as the exposed traverse section was bare grey ice on our second go would have been a shit show with a single walking axe. Forbes & Rochefort I carried a pair and again allowed for faster more comfortable progress. 

Be careful what guidebook you read regarding gear etc, speed is safety and light is the right option but going too light can slow you down as well if you cant place a piece when you would like to. Depending on routes slings for spikes, set of nuts, a cpl of cams and some alpine draws wont go amiss. Use of natural belays, or alpine hitches on bomber spikes is the way forward rather than using your belay plate when you feel that you need more security for a harder step/section.

First time out we managed to get a days glacier training from a trainee BMG  (He actually passed his final assessment or whatever its called a cpl weeks later) which was ideal to get a proper handle on systems for crevasse rescue, moving together, taking coils etc and was good for just general advice as well. We both had mountain trad and Scottish winter experience (Up to E1 and V) but found it well worthwhile.

Enjoy, the Alps are amazing

Sean

 TobyA 04 May 2022
 ben b 05 May 2022
In reply to TobyA:

Not been there since 2019 and so may have changed somewhat, but there was a very good selection of axes available in Cham (surprise!) including the Blue Ice and some more 'exotic' models not readily picked up in the UK. Wander along the Av. de l'Aiguille du Midi - there was a good selection at the magnificently euro-named "TechnicExtrem" IIRC. Also Snell. 

I would go with what you are used to and err on the less technical (longer/lighter) given the long days and relatively short technical sections likely. 

b

 Webster 05 May 2022
In reply to it624:

If you are on a budget then just stick with what you have got and choose routes accordingly. a single walking/alpine axe is more than adequate for the vast majority of routes AD and below when the conditions are good, and when conditions are not good you are better off choosing another route rather than making things difficult for yourself just to get the 'tick'.

The Petzl summit 59cm axe is my go to work horse alpine axe, with a removable trig rest which i add on if i know i am going to be doing some front pointing.

If you have some money to spare then get a a pair of petzl gully axes with the removable trig rests. they are a bit short to be used purely as a walking axe, but they are super light and with the trig rests on, they are almost as capable as a technical axe on moderate snow/ice slopes.


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