UKH

Morning all,

IN short, both mine and my wifes rucksacks were in the back of our van while it was parked when some absolute tool caused an accident which also took out the back of our van.

Naturally, I'll be claiming from his insurance for the van etc, but was wondering how best to list kit etc. The gear was right inside the back doors, in a storage compartment, which no longer exists and took the full brunt of the force.

Being that its safety equipment and the hit it took, I'm not willing to climb on it now. 

Any suggestions?

In reply to Frankie boy:I'd certainly prepare an itemised list... imagine it was camera equipment etc.

Obviously I/we haven't see the extent of damage, whether gear scattered around etc., but I wouldn't automatically write the gear off.  It wouldn't be a rigid item so any force might be very dispersed, soft goods almost unaffected (ignoring chemical spills Obviously.) , but thats your call. 

In reply to wbo2:

Yeah, the back of the van is completely gone, it now ends where the back wheels were. the majority of our kit ended up just behind the front seats. There was fluid on some of the gear but I think that was just water from a container in the van.

In general though, with the size of the impact, I have no idea what it could have done to any karabiners etc. Both our climbing helmets were destroyed. We had kit in those sturdy "Really Useful" branded storage boxes and the boxes were smashed too.

In reply to Frankie boy:

If you think about the impact on kit of dropping it off a route then most of it is built to be pretty robust. I would eyeball each item closely for damage. If there's been any contact with sharp metal, say, then that's worrisome. If you're still worried then claim, if only for peace of mind.

In reply to Frankie boy:

I'd just add it to your claim, and let the third party's insurer argue if they are so inclined. If you stress that it was all life critical safety equipment, I'd be surprised if they argue. Are you Comprehensive Insured? If so let your insurers claim against theirs. As it's very obviously a No Fault claim on your part, it shouldn't affect your NCD. 

I had a woman run into the back of my car whilst I was stopped at traffic lights earlier this year. I exchanged details with the other driver at the scene, then when I got home notified my insurers. Thereafter they did everything for me and got the repairs done on my behalf and arranged for a loan car at no cost to myself, all claimed from the other side. My NCD wasn't affected.

In reply to Trangia:

I was fully comp, but my insurance company aren't wanting to do anything. I had to get temporary hire vehicle (my wife was due in hospital for an op the morning after the accident) so will be claiming for that and any damaged stuff in the van under "uninsured losses".

End of the day, I just don't want to end up out of pocket, as it were nowt to do with me.

In reply to Frankie boy:

As it wasn't your fault, I'd expect the other party to make good your loss. It may be that a rock on a wire doesn't show any damage, but what will it do for your confidence? If you have to rely on that, and you're not 100% certain its up to spec.

Put in an itemised list of everything, including rucksacks and technical clothing etc that may have been covered in water/antifreeze/fluid from the other vehicle. Ideally you'd want everything to be in the state it was before the crash. Don't accept the first number they give you. If they let you keep the old kit, mark it up with a different coloured tape and use whatever, where you think it is safe to do so, and dispose of the rest.

If they argue, then suggest you set up a 50m ab for one of their loss adjusters on the faulty kit.

In reply to dread-i:

Which when it comes to climbing gear means 100% safe. Nothing else is acceptable, which in reality means it can only be replaced with new, because second hand gear has a history unknown to Frankie -boy and has a risk attached. He knew the history of his own gear, so could make a judgement about it's safety. That's now impossible, so the only way to put him back into the same position with the gear that he was in prior to the crash is to replace it with new -  M'Lord 

In reply to Frankie boy:

I think I saw you’re based in Skipton on you car/van wanted post?

I’ve got a spare 40m rope + maybe some assorted quick draws  (but no trad gear) if you’re in need of borrowing anything in the short term. 

I’m in Skipton too.

In reply to Trangia:

 so the only way to put him back into the same position with the gear that he was in prior to the crash is to replace it with new -  M'Lord 

except that doesn't take usage-value into account.

insurance will only pay out the remaining value after age, expected usage (and other factors) are taken into account, irrespective of condition.

nevertheless there's going to be a cap on total value in the insurance policy.

In reply to Frankie boy:

Have you got any AA , Rac or such like car insurance, they are great at sorting stuff out like that. We got much help when our van broke down in Corsica

In reply to Trangia:

In my experience, your insurers are not interested in ensuring you get an equitable settlement. It's about minimising their costs.

In practice most insurance companies will be part of a much larger body, and the third party's insurers might ultimately be the same as yours. I may be being cynical, but they'll look after themselves, not the OP.

In reply to Ridge:

Which quite the opposite of my experience in over 50 years of insuring cars. I have always been fairly and honestly treated by car insurance companies and have never had a claim rejected or reduced. In particular I would highly recommend NFU, and LV who settled the claim for the accident mentioned in my first post. LV were also my insurers some 12 ago when I was hit head on by an out of control oncoming car which had swerved across the road right into my path. The air bags went off, and my car was a write off. The loss adjuster offered me £5000 in settlement for it when the highest book value in Glasses was £4000. I also had a car stolen 30 years ago by joy riders who wrapped it around a tree at the first corner. It was a write off and I received over it's Glasses book value. In cases where contents were damaged, I received their equivalent replacement new value.

In reply to James Malloch:

Thanks James,  that's very generous of you. Currently my wife us due an operation tomorrow so i expect ill spend the next week or so looking after her,  with maybe the odd hour or two sneaking out soloing, so prob don't need anything for a bit. That said, if your skipton based,  let me know if you wanna get out sometime.

And thanks again,  i appreciate the offer.

In reply to Heike:

I'm with admiral (for my sins), but their law section is having me fill in details of belongings with receipts etc so fingers crossed something will get sorted. 

In reply to Trangia:

I've had a similar experience, when my Focus was written off I got more than the amount third party valuations were listing for cars in perfect condition with that age and mileage. It was not in any way in a perfect condition.

In reply to Trangia:

Can’t speak for car insurance but for house insurance for accidental damage our insurance company offered us about 1/4 of what the builder said it would cost to repair (parts and labour), and after 10 weeks of complaining and phone calls and a formal complaint procedure they then said to me - clear as day - “our surveyors have reviewed your claim and for a claim of this nature we’d expect to pay between [double] and [triple] [what they offered me 10 weeks ago]”. 
 

and they gave me the high offer out of the goodness of their hearts. The fact I had a letter from 10 weeks prior saying the absolute max they could offer was 1/3rd of that didn’t seem to register as odd / completely crooked to them. 
 

I’ll certainly be wary of insurance companies the rest of my life now. 
 

edit: ps this was a household name insurance company. 

In reply to elliot.baker:

I'll just stick through a list of what was damaged and what was potentially damaged and see what they give back with.  Its a shame i cant all them to replace all the bits of my life I've spent phoning them,  filling in forms, taking photos etc. I guess it would take since extreme form of power to be able to say "i've extended your lifespan by 2 days to make up for all the time we wasted if yours".