UKH

I'm off on holiday to North Devon next week and I'm hoping to take the kids climbing (9 and 11) at Baggy Point if possible, but I've never been there. I'm wondering if there is anything suitable. I can see there are many different bits, some of which you abseil down and some of which you scramble down. 

I thought, perhaps, I may be able to lower them on a top-rope and then bring them up on the same rope with me above. This would only be possible if the top of the cliff is not a nasty slope.

If the scramble-down areas are best, is the scramble easy?

Ideally Diff to Severe. Any thoughts please. Obviously, I will be responsible for making any call about what they can do safely.

I'd think the Promontory would work quite well as long as the kids are sensible enough (it's beside a cliff top after all). It's an easy walk to the top then one you've built a belay lower them down and such as you say. The actual routes do come across at an angle but you can climb most of the slab at a quite moderate-ish grade if memory serves. 

That's moderate-ish in terms of not too hard not the grade obviously.

Long rock would be a PITA to get into with kids. It's a scramble but with serious exposure and frankly I think the majority of people want an ab rope for it.

It would depend on the kids, but when we went I wouldn't have wanted kids there. Lost horizon area.

When my sons were 8 and 9 we scrambled down to the Promontory unroped and did a few climbs. Basically the kids just followed anywhere Mum said.

A few years later I went back and didn't even fancy the scramble myself! 

I guess it all just depends on your kids ability, confidence and your own risk assessment. It's all doable but in retrospect I probably wouldn't advocate my approach. 

You may already do/know this but ..

Totally scout it all out by yourself first so that you're familiar with what you want the kids to be doing, where you want them to be, and where you don't want them to be, etc.

You don't want to be wondering about the setup, etc when you get there with them.

Also, if you can get a second adult involved (the more experienced the better), then a 1:1 ratio would (obviously) be better in that kind of environment.

The climbs in the  Moonshot (D), Smile (S 4a), Scrattling Crack (VD) area would definitely be suitable for lowering and climbing straight back up BUT ONLY IF the area above for belaying etc is ok. Afraid I just can't remember what the clifftop is like there or the approach - check it out beforehand. 

You have the new guidebook?

Yes

Thanks. That area caught my eye. Perhaps someone van come along and say whether the top is a horrible slope

As mentioned above the promontory would suit in terms of getting to the foot of the routes by lowering but the routes (Ben,Marion etc) are surprisingly ‘diagonal’. If the kids are good with this and don’t need a rope bang on above them then this should be good. Of course if if you have just lowered and top roped (no runners) then the potential swing would be exciting/terrifying. I think ‘In her eyes’ is a bit more straight up.

In my opinion the approach to the Scrattling Zawn is the same as that for Long Rock i.e. a steep grassy/slightly eroded slope where it would be wise to have a rope/abseil in place making use of the stakes that are present at the top of the slopes to gain the top of the actual routes.

If you have the new guide I'd drive on down to Bude and Crooklets for some kid friendly climbing with easy access from the beach and fewer crowds than Baggy.

My kids have done plenty of unroped scrambling but I wouldnt fancy ushering them down any of the Baggy Point descents or lowering them down the diagonal trending routes or scrambles.

There will be less people climbing, but Bude itself and the beaches are pretty rammed at the moment. Belays at the top of many of the easier climbs are not straightforward.

As already discussed, The Promontory is OK, most straight forward access and good belay stakes.  The biggest danger is rock fall, especially if there are more parties moving about at the top.  Helmets and an understanding to not look up if anyone shouts below would be necessary.

Also, a trip at the trip hazard and a fall would be a real worry with 'lively' kids

As already discussed, The Promontory is OK, most straight forward access and good belay stakes.  The biggest danger is rock fall, especially if there are more parties moving about at the top.  Helmets and an understanding to not look up if anyone shouts below would be necessary.

Also, a trip at the trip hazard and a fall would be a real worry with 'lively' kids

What Diff to Severe routes are the advocates of The Promontory suggesting for Cake’s kids?

I think others have said it implied that the routes like Ben, for example, would not work as a simple top rope. Well, it looks silly to me as it is a 40m pitch and diagonal the whole way. 

So the descent to the top of Long wall is pretty serious, right?

Thanks. They are steady, sensible kids and we've done slightly nervy top-outs before, but it seems clear I need to check it all out first.

What about In Her Eyes (S 4a)?

It looks fairly straight-up in the picture. 

That would be the only one I would consider.

The crack lines are all parallel so lean equally. In Her Eyes reaches the end of its crackline then goes straight up, so is better protected from a belay at the top than the other routes.

Ah - I thought Ben, In her Eyes etc was on Long Rock Slab (Left Hand) and Shangri-La etc on The Promontory.  As Alan Moore, I wouldn't have taken my 2 climbing at Baggy at that age, but I suppose it depends how keen and competent you all are!  

Thanks. That's useful. If it looks dodgy, I could even only lower them halfway

My kids have done a fair bit of exposed walking & scrambling but they would find it too intimidating I think.

But for us the main issue (we go to this area often) is that they would have to have walked past the beach and would be happier there or in the sea. We always end up just scrambling on the rocks at Putsborough or Croyde beach, rockpooling etc. We've also been coasteering from Croyde.

All families are different though.

It was a while ago, but I've got a vague recollection of doing some bouldery stuff in some sort of beach-level rock runnels somewhere around Croyde Bay. (I'm a bit hazy on exactly where, too.) I don't think there was anything amazing - we'd gone there with someone who'd oversold it quite heavily and we only actually managed to find a couple of things that felt like "proper bouldering" after quite a bit of looking - but it might be a fun place to go with kids if you just want to play around on rocks a bit? Particularly if anyone has a better idea of where it is that I'm thinking of...

That's a very fair point. I'm hoping that with two weeks on seaside holidays in a row, they will give it a go, but if their mum says she's going to the beach instead, I know what they'll choose!

This confusion arose when climbers first developed the areas. This carried on into the 1988 guide and was corrected in the 2000 guide. So Long Rock Eliminate (HVS 5a) Ben (S 4a) etc. are in fact on The Promontary and Shangri-La (S 4a) is on Long Rock. The approach to Long Rock is not suitable for kids.

It's not really suitable for adults of a nervous disposition either once they've seen what lies beneath 😁

I think they were also mixed up in Littlejohn’s SW climbs. 

The little 'Shark Tooth Slab' (page 74 in new guide) has some easy things on and the scramble down is reasonably straightforward (when dry).

I lowered three beginners down Marion a couple of weeks ago, the route moves left to right but I managed to find a position to minimise any swing.  They were all adults with some bouldering experience but no outside experience.  I was considering taking one of them over to Long Rock but ruled it out once I knew they were beginners.

I would.  A lot depends on the state of the descents and tops of the routes.  They can be loose/muddy or perfectly ok depending on conditions and how much traffic they've seen recently.

I was trying to think of a crag down there where you could walk in at most states of the tide.  There are places with some sub-VS routes you can walk in to, like Foxhold Slabs and Gull Rock, but they are pretty tidal, and will probably involve abbing off as well as the inevitable tide race to get back. 

Oddly, the only place I can think of is Blackchurch, which has a little slab immediately on the left as you walk in.  I think it's probably Beach Slab, which has some HS routes on it now I see: 

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/blackchurch-677#beach_slab    

No guarantee it's not a death trap, of course, but we used to play on it, decades ago...  and I don't think you can get cut off by the tide.  Mark Kemball would be the man to ask. 

It’s a pleasant little slab. To belay, you need to bushwhack back through ferns to reach the tree. You ought to be able to set up a bottom rope if you have a reasonable length of static. Page 124 of the guide. 

Other possibilities Sesame Street area at Smoothlands(p145) Blegberry Buttress, Damehole (p160) and Vicarage (p268). This last one is the best if they are OK with the approach - you might want to put them on a rope to get down to the beach and helmets would probably be a good idea. You would need to climb at least one of the routes to set up a top rope. Try to get there about 3 hours before low tide for the maximum time climbing. 

I have been within 20 yards of the top of the promontory (Ben, Marion, in her eyes) slab with a pushchair so access is no problem. Long rock (Shangri la, lost horizon) I would suggest is terrifying with kids and scratling zawn marginally less terrifying but possibly doable if you find the stake for the handrailsafety. Definitely not a 'my first trip, unscouted' location though.

Biggest problem on the promontory could be getting a place for top rope without interfering with other climbers on the slab due to the diagonal nature of a lot of the routes. It is relatively unthreatening otherwise, simple enough anchor on good stakes and nice clean abseil , wear a helmet and common sense at the top.

I hadn't even spotted that tiny picture in the book. They look nice, thanks.

I think we will go for In her eyes if we can get down to the stakes easily, then. The other crags look like a bit of a trek although really good 

I'm also really looking forward to getting some time leading some proper trad routes without the kids there the same week.

Thanks all

We went to the promontory and did In Her Eyes (S 4a). It was fine and the girls had a great time, so thanks again for the help. I agree that fully diagonal routes there would be potentially dangerous to fall near the bottom