UKH

Hi All,

So I'm in the market for a 45-50 l pack tht can be used both for backpacking and mountineering.

I've had the a mammut trion spine 50 l which I've now sold as it was a bit too heavy after my last backpacking trip.

Now looking to replace it. Top of my list at the moment are the blue ice warrthog 45 / Mountian equipment tupilak 45. 

My only question is how do you guys dig out your gear from such packs? Seems a bit too faffy. I really like packs with side/ circumferental zippers as it allows the gear to be accessed easilly.

I know this will be a compromise between the two "sports" but I like to keep gear that will do more than one thing

Cheers

I mean you just need a packing system really for single compartment. Leave what you need during the day at the top. I guess the question is what do you need to be getting in and out? If climbing and a single day trip then a lot of the pack is just for climbing gear on approach and would be relatively empty once geared up. Water, belay jacket, maybe crampon bag and poles if using, bothy bag, first aid. Torch and food in the lid pocket.

I don't know if you'd get anything with access zips that comes in under a kilo.

This could be worth a look: https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/rucksacks/medium/deuter_guide_44+_pack-1240...

I've just written a UKC review of the Lowe Alpine Halcyon 35-40, and the is a 45-50 version of it too - both have a zip down the side. I thought at first it might be a bit of a gimmick but actually it is really handy for finding things at the bottom of the bag. They aren't superlight packs but definitely lighter than the Trion (see Dan's review of one of them from yesterday). The Lowe ones can be stripped down a bit if you are using them for, say, a climbing day and don't need the full back system in for instance. I haven't used the 35-40 for backpacking yet, just day trips but I see no reason why it wouldn't be fine for weekend trips and the like.

https://rab.equipment/uk/lowe-alpine-halcyon-45-50-m

Not sure when my review will be published - it might be part of a multi pack review later in the spring, or it might be a standalone review published soon. I'll check with UKC HQ on that!

I've got a Millet Pro Lighter 38+10. It has a side access zip, and it strikes a good balance between weight and carrying comfort, it's a great all rounder. Might be worth a look at 1180g.

I looked at that pack. Is the back lenght adjustable? I'm 5 7 so usaully require the short/female version of the pack. At 48 cm the back length is too much unless it's adjustable.

Also is the hook that keeps the lid down any good? I know on my mountain hardwear scrambler, the hook was terrible. It kept coming off all the time, especially when the bag isn't full

Cheers

I know on a trip to the alps lasy year the circumfernetal zipper on my Ortovox Peak came in super handy on our approach to the hut. We got rainded on and I kept my water proofs at the bottom. I was about 3 times faster than the othe rpeople with conventinal packs so it can definetly come in handy.

I agree with you on anything sub 1 kilo with a zipper access

That's a good point, quick access to waterproofs on approach is a fair example.

Back not adjustable but available in different lengths I think?

The hook works absolutely fine. This is the third pack I've had with a hook (another LA and a Montane) all work fine. MH must have really messed up their design! Although a mate had similar issues with a Patagonia pack I think.

To follow on from Toby's point re the hook closure: I've got an older Lowe Alpine Alpine Attack bag which has the same closure and it's really solid. The hook has a second cut in it higher up that can be used to latch onto the lid more securely which really does fasten it properly when the bag is under filled.

Ah great the mountain hardwear one is just a simple one and it's terrible. The scrambler was fantastic in many ways but has some serious design flaws with the hook and the rope carry, to where it's unsable for climbing . Makes me question their other kit

Why not swap the buckle/hook out? Either for a LA spare  or a  Fastex type. There are some options around that won't even need sewing to install.

https://www.nevisport.com/lowe-alpine-20mm-loadlocker-ii-buckle

https://www.webtogs.com/Sea-To-Summit-Field-Repair-Buckle-Side-Release-2-Pi...

Links added 

This could definetly be done but when you pay so much money for a bag, you should need to modify it before taking it out

We do with most kit though...

Have a look at Aiguille Alpine sacks. Superb quality and pretty light. No frills. 

https://www.aiguillealpine.co.uk/  

Cheers for the link. I'm tempted buying the pack again adding this buckle you linked and adding some webbing for a proper rope carry. As when the pack wousn't completly full, the tope just slides down

The MH Scrambler 30 is discontinued now, replaced by an all new 35 model, but they pop up heavily discounted - I paid 50 something for mine so worth searching the bargain outlets. Maybe the 35 will have fixed some of the things you didn't like?

I am talking about the new 35 litres which has recently gottent a "facelift" The hook for the lid seems to have been replaced with a new design so maye that has been fixed, but the rope carry seems like it's the same design

It'll be out next week Toby. And then we'll cover it again in the mountain packs group test in the spring.

We'll have to agree to disagree on side zips! I can't remember ever having used them on a mountain pack of this sort of size. I can see the point with a big trekking pack, but for me with anything borderline daypack size it's very rarely a faff to extract what I want through the top, because I'll pack with the likely items uppermost. I think side zips are basically redundant here, and the cons (an added point of potential failure, a minor increase in weight, rain gets in, you leave them open and lose stuff) outweigh a quite minor pro. But I'll admit that other viewpoints are available.

Warthog 45 is good, really solid, practical and simple.  The only downside for me is that the main securing hook is not further down the bag, so it's not very effective when only partly full.  I sewed a new securing tab on, lower down the sac!

Tupilak looks excellent.  Consider also the Arcteryx FL45; I have the 30 model, super lightweight and strong. 

Totally accept they add weight, and complexity (so probably make it slightly more expensive to produce) and are potential leak and failure points. BUT so far I've not had those problems with the Lowe pack, and it does make it slightly more 'multipurpose' - handy as a cragging pack, as well as a mountain walking or winter climbing pack.

I readily admit though, I've not missed a side zip on any of the various mountaineering packs I've used down the decades previously, so it was an interesting surprise to find that I rather like the zip in the Halcyon!

There are several 30 L packs out there which I like. I'm wondering wheter 30 L is enough though when going for scottish winter climbing and multi day trips to the alps where you have to get ot the hut one day and summit the day after an so on.

Do yoiu find 30 L is enough for this?

Salewa have some nice packs with side zips 

No I use the 30l for summer cragging and other stuff.  

You could probably get away with it for Scottish winter, if you're happy to stow ropes and helmets externally (which you can) and stuff it full.  On European ice cragging this is how they roll; 30l is a big sac in that context.  But for Scotland, carrying layers, emergency kit etc I'd go for the 40l, absolutely. 

I really like the packs, remind me of the Crux RX30 I had back in the day.

The Crux AK47 is pretty unbeatable imo.

How compact is your gear and how disciplined are you? I struggle with 30 litres on day trips (tho not all litres are created equal it seems!) and since I started carrying a synthetic belay jacket (Rab Photon X in XL) can even find 40litres a bit of a push.

An alternative strategy is to allow yourself an oversized pack that cinches down well for the climb - better I think than one that extends a lot using the extension for planned walk-ins (I'm looking at you, FL40 - a few friends have given up on these ). Cramming stiff ropes and unsorted gear into a big sack when you top out in a hooly is a lot easier than playing pack chess in the dark with your limit state racing affair. I wouldn't necessarily go as far as a 1980's Karrimor Jaguar V 80 litre cotton duck setup, but that said, the design brief was just precisely to dump unsorted gear into on Scottish Winter climbs... or to empy it all out and get in yourself!

I think Tupilak 45 is cream of the current crop for Scottish winter use, and certainly plenty of space.

Thart's a good question! I've never struggled with a 35 L pack (carrying helemet and rope on th outside) both for scottish trips and alpine summer trips. Thogh not sure how much room I had to spare.

+ It's nice to have some extra room for say some camera gear or somethign like that.

After my latest 3 day hike on the pennine way though definetly learned th e value of lightweight. I can now understand why the "wierd" light weight people

Yes. I use a 30L Arc'teryx Alpha FL for that sort of thing, and have no problem fitting everything I need in for a comfortable bivi followed by a moderate sort of alpine adventure (or Aiguilles Rouges bolt-clipping adventure) the next day.

Bravo

(No sarcasm, I'm genuinely in awe of folk who can do this!)

It helps having compact things in fairness. I've always found that a sleeping bag is by far the biggest ballache to pack, but I have a little 500g quilt that's good for summer bivis and compresses nicely. Bivi bag packs down well, and my entire brew/cooking kit packs into a 600ml mug. Sleeping mat is an Exped Synmat Hyperlite, about the size of a coke can, or a foam mat that goes on the outside (but I inexplicably lost that, no idea how or where, so it has to be the Synmat for now).

Obviously if you plan to be hut-based you'll probably be leaving the bivi kit behind, in which case 30L should be more than enough space. And if it isn't, I might gently suggest that you rethink whether you really need the second kitchen sink.

Thanks for that I think I'd best start another thread just to explore whether I really need to be taking my silver plated cruet set, candelabra and bagpipes with me in case I'm not down by dinner time...

And apologies — if it wasn't clear, my first reply was meant for Basemetal, not the OP*.

That’s the secret! 

Lots of forethought and a consistent and considered approach is far more important than any particular rucsac design. 

It's not my main activity these days but about once a year I do a proper 2, 3 or 4 day backpacking trip.

My only larger sac is a single compartment POD Alpine 50. Even with fairly standard rather than ultralight kit, I have never really had the slightest issue with wanting a more traditional sac with side pockets or zip access.

Although I suppose I have now been doing this hiking and camping lark for the best part of 35 years... 😂

I'd always recommend buying the best possible sac for your mountaineering/climbing objective as that is the most critical use. Provided it fits well enough, it will work OK for backpacking.

Whether psychologically the OP, or anyone else, is happy enough with the obvious compromises is an unanswerable question...