UKH

Looking for a new harness to replace my 5ish year old wild country one which is starting to look a bit tired. Struggling to find something with adjustable legs and ice clipper slots that is still decently light and has trad size gear loops. Am I asking for too much as harnesses seem to be very niche these days? 

What is everyone using? There was a review of all-round harness by UKC but it was done a couple of years ago so i would imagine there are some new ones on the block. 

I'm looking around for this as well. Options include:

• DMM Renegade
• Arcteryx AR-395a
• Black Diamond Technician (some people seem to think gear loops are too small though)
• Mammut Nordwand (along with a few other Mammut ones).

Those all have 4 clipper slots. The Edelrid Sendero looks good if you only want 2 clipper slots and there are probably others as well, but I'm after 4 so haven't kept track.

Mammut options look good - however i dont understand this trend of soft gear loops.. it's just completely off putting for trad! 

The Togir 3 Slide seems to tick all the boxes apart from the weight one but its not much more compared to the rest

Why do you need: adjustable leg loops and clipper slots?

I’ve done loads of trad, alpine and ice climbing with a normal fixed leg loop harness and have never missed either feature. I don’t miss the extra weight in my rucksack either. NB: I rack screws on big krabs that are spun round so I can remove them one handed. 

An Edelrid Ace is a good value, very comfy harness. I’ve used mine for trad, sport, alpine and Scottish winter, without issue. When it wears out I’ll probably get another. 

Iv been using the Arcteryx AR-395a for about 3 years as an all rounder. Very comfortable to walk/hang in and packs down really small into the mesh bag that comes with it, Highly recommend 

I've got a Climbing Technology Wall harness - five gear loops (six if you get a size medium or larger), adjustable leg loops, and (I think) ice clipper slots. I've found it very comfortable, and have no problem fitting mountains of gear on it.

Very happy with my DMM Renegade, which replaced a similarly well-used Wild Country something-or-other. I don't use ice screws but liked the gear loops - including, an important feature for me, a central one at the back. I also tried the newer Wild Country with the mesh-type waistband and leg loops, which felt super comfy in the shop but seemed to have a very small range of adjustment to the waistband - which for me is a disadvantage as I want to be able to wear it with many different amounts of clothing underneath. No such issues with the DMM. Also, although just one waist buckle, the floating belts means it always sits nicely central.

Interesting, I've wondered about this. If I'm only carrying a couple of screws (especially if I'm not really expecting to use them) then I carry them like this too, but I wasn't convinced it would work that well when carrying more screws for e.g. ice climbing because it feels like screws on individual krabs would be a pain to get off if the krab could move about. So I tried those Simond screw racks but found the screws hung low and got in the way of my legs, and now I'm looking for clipper slots.

I might have a play with just the krab method (around the house during lockdown)... do you use any particular krabs or just anything big?

I like the Petzl Adjama for trad but you'd need to get the Caritool EVOs for clippers. 

I've always found Petzl harnesses to be the most comfortable. 

I have a BD Technician. I find it great for any climbing, any season. I find the adjustable leg loops are a great feature: the difference in leg size between light shorts in summer and full on winter softshell trousers with shell trousers on top makes carrying all of an extra 20g of buckles worth it in my humble opinion!

This is even more useful if putting ski boots through the leg loops!

Also, it is handy in winter with boots and crampons on to open the loops wide to avoid catching the boot, then cinch it up snug. This is v useful if I have cramponed up the apron to the first belay and don't want to have a faff gettling cramponed boots through the leg loop. 

I can live with carrying 20g extra uphill.

The clipper slots are also pretty convenient to clip the head of your tool to if you want to stash it for a moment. 

Yes im aware of this - hence i want adjustable loops, as getting your winter boots through your harness leg loops is quite a tricky affair even with them wide open! 

How are the gear loops on the technician? Looks to be the best bet so far.. 

I have bd technician . Use on trad  winter   alps. Happy with it

Putting a harness on over crampons is a pain and faff....less likely to trip up....

I'm a fan of adjustable leg loops. The weight saving ..... I've made up for by cutting all of the pockets out of my jacket and cut the handle off my plastic cup so I dont notice the extra weight. 

Why would you put a harness on after crampons?

I can’t think of a single situation when winter climbing, where it would be advantageous to put on crampons before harness.

You should be aiming to be efficient in your climbing, and in most situations should gear up only once.

I’ve never understood the appeal of adjustable leg loops. They add a wear point, weight, bulk, and cost to any harness. Why would you want that?

I've done very little winter climbing but quite a few times I have worn crampons for a long scrambly walk-in and put a harness on at the bottom of the route when racking up etc. Granted at that point it's not much trouble to take crampons off and then put them back on again but I've definitely done it. 

I think quite soon UKC will publish my review of the Edelrid Sendero. Spoiler alert: it's bloody brilliant, and sounds like exactly what you're looking for. They aren't even particularly expensive compared to some of the fancy ones from arcteryx and black diamond. Totally independently outdoor gear lab also loved it, I think it came top of their recent review. 

I bought a Sendero based upon the OGL review to replace my ageing edelrid leaf. It's exactly what I needed. Unfortunately, I do a lot of weightlifting and cycling, so fixed leg loops never seem to fit me in the correct waist size, otherwise I would have bought a Sirana (like 80g lighter).

Yeah - I've used the Leaf a lot - I reviewed one maybe 5 or 6 years ago and its not my only harness but I've used it loads. But I think the Sendero is better! 5 gear racks besides anything else makes it much better for trad climbing than four rack harnesses like the other Edelrid ones I've used before.

I looked quite carefully at the weight of the Sirana versus the Sendero, and if you compare the same sizes (i.e. medium to medium) then it's actually only 50 grams difference.

I saw Tom's comments on adjustable leg loops and how you don't need them - I sort of agree with. I've done most of my winter and ice climbing in this https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/climbing/harnesses/arc'teryx_m270_harness-5... and that doesn't have adjustable legs. But I totally agree that if you have bigger than average thighs (or perhaps slimmer thighs), or use the same harness summer and winter, you can often get a better fit with adjustable legs - particularly when it only makes 50 grams difference.

If you take an unlucky fall onto the carabiner clipped into this loop, you could end up paralysed from the waist down. I'd always used a carabiner at the back of my harness to attach my chalk bag until this summer, when a friend told me of a case in which exactly this had happened. 

I agree that one should aspire to gear up only once.

I have had times where I have needed crampons on the approach long before the final approach apron; in SCnL, Beinn Eighe, walking over to Etchachan etc.

I wouldn't want to gear up fully at point 1141 heading to Etchachan.

The 20g extra weight and bulk smaller than a small matchbox doesn't bother me.

I agree that one should aspire to gear up only once.

I have had times where I have needed crampons on the approach long before the final approach apron; in SCnL, Beinn Eighe, walking over to Etchachan etc.

I wouldn't want to gear up fully at point 1141 while heading to Etchachan.

The 20g extra weight and extra bulk smaller than a small matchbox and a few quid extra don't bother me.

I’ve had to do that too. In those situations I normally put my harness and crampons on, and leave everything else to the bottom of route/apron. 

This can have other advantages too. Last winter I put harness and crampons on at the bottom of the Goat Track, and arrived at Hells Lum at the same time as two other teams who were all faffing around gearing up. We got the the rack out, tied on, and were first on Deep Cut. 

It is also possible, with a bit of care, and on flat ground, to put on a harness with fixed leg loops whilst wearing crampons.

You can get an Edelrid Ace with medium waist and large leg loops. I tried one on, as I thought I had disproportionately large thighs, but it turns out it’s just in my head!

I have a Petzl SITTA. Super light, super comfy, pack down to pretty much nothing. Downsides are it's pretty expensive and it hasn't worn that well (I don't climb that much).

The Edelrid Sirana would be top of my list for a replacement due to cost and comparable weight. However, I'm not a fan of a massive middle back loop. The loops on the SITTA are brilliant, two massive front loops split in two, two smaller back loops and only a token loop across the spine.

Like McHeath said, I have concerns about a krab sat over my spine in a fall, though don't really know how much of a real worry this should be.

Perhaps this should be UKC's next competition.. who can do it the fastest - send in your videos and win! 

I can't quite see the justification for the ace. It's heavier than the sirana but the belt looks less comfortable. It also doesn't have as good racking features. Perhaps I'm missing something?

I would have bought a Sitta, but was warned off it by some of the guys in a shop as they kept getting returns for wear.

I figure if I really need something lightweight (eg ski touring), I'll buy a BD Couloir (apparently the petzl altitude also falls apart easily).

The ace is very comfy, possibly the most comfy harness I’ve used. I find it’s four racking loops more than sufficient for a big trad rack. 

I reviewed the Sitta for UKC and was underwhelmed, especially as it wears quick. I wouldn’t spend my own cash on one.

The racking on the Couloir is rubbish. The new Blue Ice Choucas is good. Not ideal racking, but better than the Couloir and the Petzls.

Anyone used a Choucas Pro for general harness? In the market for an all round harness and currently I'm favouring the Sitta. 

Dislike boring colours (and green sadly) and most of the decent harnesses these days are black! Cquence, Solution, Solution Guide, etc. 

I had a look at it in the shop, but was after a bod style harness so wasn’t really interested.

I’m not sure of the logic of buying a harness based on colour...

 What about the Edelrid Sirana? Good value too...

Hence I'm still debating! Brain says Cquence but god I hate black harnesses. 

You will have to change all your gear to the DMM tactical kit so that it all matches your harnesss.. 

I do not understand your posts.

You wrote "I can’t think of a single situation when winter climbing, where it would be advantageous to put on crampons before harness".

I described a situation where I often put crampons on well before harness/gear etc.

Then you said you have this experience too; despite saying you cannot think of such a situation.

What I meant is, there is no reason why you couldn’t have put your harness on at the point you stopped to put on your crampons. It’s not like walking in a harness is uncomfortable.

Guess you don't have big thighs if you're asking that question. Non-adjustable thigh loops with winter layers are a non-starter for me. 

I had the same selection criteria when I purchased a new harness last month. I opted for another Arcteryx AR harness. The AR-395A was unavailable everywhere in my size but the AR-385A actually fitted me better. Better fit for tall slim men maybe. I've got so used to the big gear loops and small pack size, for which other harnesses compared poorly.

I mainly climb water ice in winter, and carry anything up 16 screws, so 4 clipper slots was essential for me which limited the choice.

The minor downsides with the Arcteryx harnesses is that they are a pain to put on if there is gear already attached to the loops due to them being so flexible. It's quicker just to strip the harness first. I'd also check the whereabouts of the front right ice clipper loop. If it's too far forward then you'll be regularly stabbing your shell trousers with the ice screw tips. I had this problem at first, but a bit more girth sorted this out  

The likes of the Petzl Caritool Evo doesn't work well with the Arcteryx harnesses due to very low harness profile and any elastic band attachment is just doing to strunch up the waste band.

Some reviews that I read have stated that the Arcteryx harnesses are not the best for comfort but all I can say is that they have been the most comfortable harnesses that I have used. Maybe body shape plays a part. 

Which clippers do you use?

DMM Renegade - Great all rounder.

The regular size Petzl Caritool. I find them to be better quality than the BDs. Stopped using the BD clippers years ago as the gates had a tendency to bend out of place occasionally, if they caught on a branch for example. This led to a few stray ice screws. Maybe they've improved the design, although they look no different. The Petzl clippers attach to the harness more securely as well. 

Thanks!