UKH

The UK Government's new relaxation of lockdown rules offers an opportunity for English climbers and hillwalkers who are keen to get out despite the persistence of serious questions over the risk of virus transmission. Elsewhere in the UK the key message remains to stay at home.

Steve Blake has summarised the situation very well in a post in the Northumberland social groups. Poorly judged visits to crags right now risks throwing away years of effort that have gone into access agreements. Regardless of the guidance from the top, now is the time to think about how others will feel, and acting accordingly.

UKC beats BMC on topic once again

There’s really no ambiguity in the new guidance, as far as England is concerned you can travel to go climbing or hill walking so long as you maintain social distancing

I agree robert, private landowners will be very twitchy and we must do everything we can not to antagonise them, this will no doubt involve not going to particular crags where access has been a problem or indeed if the landowner feels threatened by hoards of frustrated climbers. Crags owned by corporations and charitable organisations will prove a much safer bet in this respect.

I fear we will lose access to several important crags, not necessarily because people are selfish, they just won't appreciate the amount of work that has gone in to keeping them open.

I would urge anyone going out on Wednesday to pick their venue very carefully. 

Me and Mrs have got a cottage booked in Coniston Sat May 16th - 23rd.  Hiking trip.  We live in Essex

Bojo you just gotta let me know...

youtube.com/watch?v=BN1WwnEDWAM&

"Leaving your home - the place you live - to stay at another home for a holiday or other purpose is not allowed."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-y...

I think we just need to apply common sense. I don't see a problem going climbing, but it is important we do it responsibly. Only climb with members of our own household, climb locally and nowhere too remote, go somewhere else if adding your presence could make things start to get at all crowded, maintain social distancing, climb well within our limits, avoid any crags with current or recent access issues. Probably other points too that I missed.

It could be a good idea to name sensitive crags on UKC and ask people to avoid them.

Thanks.  They've allowed me to rebook for later in the year so I'll do that.

I agree. The BMC should have pushed our guidance once the gov document was released. Ultimately, their view is unimportant so long as people are operating within the letter and the spirit of the law. The exercising of common sense is key in this. Probably, in terms of media lynching as much as a hospital visit, a poor time to have an accident: With new freedoms come great responsibilities!

James

It's telling that one of the headline announcements in the PM's speech last night - drive as far as you wish to do some exercise - has been so quickly slapped down by so many.

Scotland has said don't cross the border for this; our country, our rules and we're not letting people do this yet.  Wales has said the same. The Lake District has said they don't want visitors, as has Cornwall, Devon, Somerset, Brighton, Norfolk, the Peak District, the Yorkshire Dales and the Yorkshire Moors; and maybe more too, that's all I've found without looking too hard.

It is shameful that this has happened and it should be shaming too, but where such an obvious example of someone claiming to lead the country being so quickly and openly slapped down by those his words will affect badly would once have been a sacking offence, or at the least have led to an invitation by senior figures in his party to consider his position, now we get nothing but the same old bluster.

I'm glad he recovered from his ill health. I wish he'd spent more time convalescing because at this rate he'll make a lot more people unwell.

T.

And yes, I know Brighton and Norfolk aren't key climbing and hillwalking spots but I included them for completeness.

Oi! What's wrong with dodgy crumbling chalk?

I would add that it’s not just recent or current access issues. If someone who currently grants access gets annoyed that their land has now been mobbed by climbers as soon as restrictions are lifted that access can be taken away. It happened in Northumberland just before restrictions were formally put in place. As far as I know there were good relations before that.

I don't know about the others but the statement from the chief exec of the Peak District was a little less definitive than that.

"This is why I am personally appealing today to anyone seeking to travel to the Peak District National Park. Before your journey, please carefully consider your own wellbeing and that of the Peak District’s many small communities - and be aware that the vast majority of facilities including hospitality businesses will be not be open for a little while yet."

I live on Dartmoor and see some of the NIMBYisam first hand and it sickens me. I was out on the fateful Mother’s Sunday and yes the car parks were rammed but there wasn’t any issue with social distancing with family groups keeping separate. Personally I welcome visitor from urban areas who must have been going through a living hell these past few weeks.

If we’re going to get over this virus without being in complete lockdown for months we need to put political and personal interests aside and make the new guidance work.

You're right the BMC view is unimportant as they have no authority over us in this matter. But they are an influencer and the Police and other authorities like the National Parks will quote them as a reason to interpret the guidance how they wish as we've seen in Devon and Cornwall with the Police quoting the RNLI as justification for not allowing public access to the beaches.

...and only travel/walk/climb with people that you live with?

Chris

Would there be a media lynching? I’ve seen so many mountain bikers being rescued by MR over the last two months and they’ve received no attention away from the usual outdoor sites. Woodhead responded to one today, telling how they believe the male, with a pre existing condition, went into seizures and took a bad fall out on Cut Gate path above Langsett - remote enough to need a chopper. I hate to judge, but for the purpose of this post wasn’t this a highly irresponsible act by the rider at this moment in time? It won’t get so much as a sniff of a headline outside the circle tomorrow, much in the same a climber with a broken ankle wouldn’t. 

According to the guidance you could walk/climb with one other person outside of your household so long as you maintain social distance, but you can't go in the same car for the same reason

I am not a Johnson fan at all but maybe this was the right call? I mean let's be honest the areas asking for people to stay away are hardly in possession of the same information that the government is with regards to transmission and nhs capacity

I get people are scared of the virus but it's not going anywhere and I do believe we need to start to progress towards a new normal and it seems allowing more activity outdoors is a sensible way to start this. I also think visitors not welcome is also a poorly thought out message, gov support schemes are looking like they are being phased out in July and a lot of these areas will need visitors to come if their economy's are to survive.

Lets also not forget that the national parks are there "To promote understanding and enjoyment (including enjoyment in the form of recreation) of the special qualities of the area by the public" and that included the whole population not just those that are lucky enough to live there.

Each individual must make up their own mind about venturing out but I for one would like to see a more understanding approach from.those that have chosen not to

There also needs to be consideration to crags that have been inhabited by wildlife such as nesting birds and crags lost to vegetation might have to stay that way until the winter.

That's been my experence too. Lots of cyclists, horse riders, canoeists having accidents and requiring helicopter rescue but hardly a mention in the press and soon forgotten

Well said

Having seen the fuss over the weekend when a poor lady lost her dog when it sadly ran over a cliff in North Cornwall and the coastguard were called, I am not so sure. Given the ongoing situation with coastal rescues of climbers in the SW, I think that self sufficiency and good sense is key. The coastguard’s reliance on the SAR helicopter is total for any sea cliff climbing accident scenario.

James

What fuss. I'm not very far from you and I haven't even heard about it

Cornwall live maybe. The comments were really hurtful and unkind. 

James

...and it's not just that, The Solent SAR chopper is doing medivacs to the UK for Guernsey these days, one tonight and one yesterday.

Wait until a chopper gets grounded because the crew have the virus or are self-isolating, then you'll see it in the news.

It was national news lol

The only people who comment on Cornwall Lies are small minded self-interested bigots and no one takes them seriously and their comments disappear into the ether within minutes

This is completely true; the depth of humanity. I don’t agree that these thoughts just disappear into the ether though. I suspect the dog owner in question didn’t feel like that. We are getting off topic. Anyway, even with climbing back on the menu, I hope never to visit Troy Quarry. 

Presumably because a dog was involved

Viewing the confusion down south from the comparative sanity of Scotland, I have to admit that I am still puzzled/amused as to why the consensus in England seems to have moved from it not being ok to go climbing to it being ok. I await next weekend with interest.

Because the reasoning for ever disallowing climbing (and all outdoors activities) was kinda janky from the get go. 

Not fair I suggest.

UKC simply has to report the news and possibly express an opinion. (Though even that's not that simple and I agree Dan Bailey has written a good informative and thought-provoking article).

But the BMC, as the national representative body for hill-walkers and climbers, has to be much more cautious. What it says, and the degree to which we all follow its guidance, will set the tone for how government and other decision makers view climbing and climbers. This could markedly affect our sport both in the short and longer term. I'm, for one, am pleased that the BMC didn't rush out a response. 

Martin

If this announcement had not been made what would you have done? Would you perish? All the NPs are saying Please don't come...they aren't saying this as some kind of spiteful powertrip.
However, I very much suspect if the weather is ok this weekend it will be a cluster**** in the Peak. So are you gonna be one of those people? Give it a couple of weeks to settle down.

The reality is that Central Government have not engaged and remain connected with local and regional management plans and have pissed off every national park and local authority by dropping this approach on them...the same local authorities who have been running the response in your area after years of strangled funding. However, At the same time Gov has failed to recognise that the same local and national authorities are the gatekeepers and own the byelaws and will no doubt use these to manage the situation locally ...expect carparks and laybys to be closed, possibly even Traffic orders and policing to act upon infringements.

Ultimately and politically this is the Gov playing their 'Trump' card...if we win and the virus is contained we did it...if we lose and the R goes back up it was your fault for the way you interpreted what we said... Trump has done it the states with the governors Boris is doing it here. Its cummingsesque by design

Slight correction: "...an opportunity for any English climbers and hillwalkers..." - this should say "...an opportunity for any climbers and hillwalkers living in England...". There are English people living in the other three Nations and there are non-English people living in England. Or perhaps it should say 'climbers and hillwalkers who are ruled by Boris in respect of coronavirus measures'

Presumably from that guidance you shouldn't climb roped up with anyone outside your household if you have to share a stance, so most multipitch. 

Purposely vague, so that now any responsibility for deaths and increased transmission is now directed to us and regional authorities. Whilst we all must take personal responsibility for our actions, this is a great get-out-of-jail-free card for the missteps of Boris and his cabinet.

Well yes, arguably. But it's funny how so many more people seem to be coming round to that view now that the freedom to drive allows them to get to a crag while previously being happy to criticise people who were lucky enough to have a crag within walking distance. What has actually changed?

You're forgetting that the "Right to Cycle" is sacrosanct on UKC.

Yup.

So just for now perhaps thats enough reason to not climb with someone outside of your household (as well as the potential health risks)...everyone taking two cars to the crag? 

Now is not the time for the local authorities, national parks, national trust and police to get into a pissing competition with central government. The great unwashed hordes are coming so open the car parks and go and hide in your bunkers

A competent climber should be able to arrange a belay to enable the 2m separation, but otherwise you're correct

Personal choice, for me it'll depend on how far

I hadn't seen the fuss either, but we're a nation of animal lovers... dogs always get on to the news. I don't think anyone would be advocating sea cliff climbing at the moment, even if it is technically completely legal. In all honesty, I doubt any Joe Public would link me bouldering with the actions of someone who did end up on telly needing being rescued from a cliff by the Coastguard either. We as climbers might like to think they would.. but they wouldn't. Even Joe Public could tell the difference in risk.

In practice I don't imagine many people would bother to arrange an otherwise unnecessary extra (hanging) belay. The most practical solution imight be to just lead through, grabbing a slingful of gear on the way, even if it didn't follow guidance to the letter. Tbh for most there might be more important things to worry about.

BMC Guidance is now out:

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/can-i-start-climbing-and-hill-walking-again

how long before ukc lift the rescent ascents ban?

According to the FAQs that accompanied the main document overnight stays away from home are still banned.

Logbooks are open again now (mentioned in the opinion piece just published). And if anyone wants a pitchfork-wielding mob on their doorstep, they can now retrospectively log their cheeky ascents during the shutdown.

I see, so we are all required to follow national guidance... except if you're a national park authority, a local authority or their corrupt friends in the local constabulary - then you can ignore it at will because your bylaws are now more important and you are getting the latest scientific and medical advice from Agnes down the road/your wife/Facebook