UKH

I suspect I know the answer to this but - beyond Striding/Swirral and Sharp/Halls Fell - am I missing any scrambley rocky ridges high in the Lakes that make winter routes that don't really need much more than being covered in snow? I've done both Pinnacle Ridges (St Sunday and Great Gable) as winter routes, but the St Sunday one isn't that high and probably needs frozen turf if you're going to do it with tools and the Great Gable one is a "proper" winter route that deserves to be done in proper conditions. 

Is there anything on Scafell or Scafell Pike that meets that kind of description? I've not been on Scafell in decades, but I walked up Scafell Pike last autumn, so I'm sure I'd have at least heard of something if it fits that description. What's Lord's Rake and West Wall Traverse like if it has just snowed high up but hasn't really consolidated? I imagine in Lord's Rake (which I did in summer I guess 30 years ago!) its likely to be just soft snow over scree - which isn't fun.

Looking for some inspiration for the coming weekend which looks like it will be snowy up high, but not really that cold enough for "proper" winter climbing and probably raining at mid altitudes. Thanks for any ideas folks!

One of the most enjoyable routes I have done is Deep Gill Integrale (III 3) on Scafell. I did it under good snow but I think it would be OK with just a snow cover, as it is a narrowing ledge which goes onto rock for the top. I think you will want a rope as it is very exposed in the upper part.

I have soloed Great Carrs Buttress (Grade-2) (grade 2 scramble) under conditions like you say, it is easy angled and any difficulties can be climbed around and Eagles Nest Gully/Arrowhead Ridge (Grade-2)(also grade 2 scramble) frozen with a light dusting of fresh snow which I remember as being on rock throughout

The east ridges of Nethermost and Dollywagon make a nice winter round with some limited ridgey fun. Almost grade I, easier and less spectacular than Striding Edge but the surprisingly wild surroundings make up for it.

Sharp Edge and Halls Fell round, but you'll obviously have done it.

I've always wondered about Great Doup Buttress, a ridge on the north side of Pillar. Grade II, reasonably high up, cool looking position... Let me know if you do it!

On the scafells, you could do one of the long scrambles on the upper Eskdale side. They are disjointed but very long, and the hard one is fantastic in detail. Not really ridges though

Yes, including the first time with one of my mates who I'm with this weekend although that was a long time ago!

Hmm, never heard of that, thanks.

Yes, I bought the scramble guide just before I went back in October and I did wonder why the long buttress somewhere just north of SP that finishes high wasn't in the winter guide. 

It's a good walk up there but definitely a thought. Thanks!

I'd imagine that Great Doup is a sandbag at 2. I've done it in summer which makes a very good scramble but its about Diff if you follow the ridge proper. If you did the summer route, no way would it be 2!

lords rake and west well traverse is excellent under snow - very atmospheric. doesn't need to be consolidated.

Did Lord’s Rake under some very soft powder conditions last year and it was as much swimming as climbing 😄

The Bannister on Scafell is fun.

A good question, that's also occupied my imagination from time to time.

I've not done any of these under winter or "wintry" conditions, but what about the following as "ideas":

Climbers' Traverse followed by Sphinx Ridge (Grade-2) followed by Pinnacle Ridge (M)? Or possibly Needle Ridge instead of Sphinx?

Steeple (Ennerdale, nr. Pillar) - could be a grade I ridge, in the right conditions? Possibly followed by a wintry scramble on Pillar? Lots of walking...

Harrow Buttress (III), Chockstone Ridge (M) and route of choice to finish, if Birkness Combe sees winter? 

Something on Gillercombe or Raven Crag? Or, if winter gets low enough, Cam Crag Ridge?

Something on Scafell, as already mentioned. This route looks intriguing: The Knife-Edge Arete (M) (look at the photos).

I also came across this list, which someone else has made: https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=3735

Hope that's somehow helpful!

climbers traverse and sphinx ridge is brilliant in soft snow - https://johnfleetwood.smugmug.com/Landscape/2013/Great-Gable/

https://www.flickriver.com/photos/36689155@N02/4178723221/

Thats interesting - thanks. Its a different buttress to the one I did that I've called Pinnacle Ridge.

It seems like you are the only person in going on 40 years who has recorded doing it! Is it rocky mixed?

Thanks - it looks quite gully-like in the photos, and at III,3 sounds very much like a proper climb! But definitely one I'd like to do even if not this weekend. Good to know its rocky enough to be OK as a mixed sort of route. Thanks! 

I've done it! Its really good but I can't see it being good as a winter route. Its a rocky line - https://johnfleetwood.smugmug.com/Lake-District-Scrambles-North/Scafell-and...

Great pic. It does look very much like a rocky ridge so fits my description of type of route exactly!

Back in pre-interweb days the most common way of finding out about these kind of possibilities was through guidebooks or word of mouth. Trouble was, there weren't any scrambling guides until 1981(?) when Brian Evans produced his slim Lakes volume (now two, the scope has grown massively). I do recall reading AH Griffin's descriptions in his books but he was quite cagey about letting on whereabouts sometimes and he certainly didn't give blow-by-blow route descriptions. I began caving with Brian as we were both in the Lancs Caving & Climbing Club and I can well recall when he gave us a slideshow in the Black Dog at Belmont prior to the launch of his book. Everyone there was amazed at what he was showing us. It was all out there under our noses all the time - all you had to do was get out and look with your own eyes, which was basically what he and his wife Aileen were/are very good at. The most stunning picture he showed us was Pinnacle Ridge (St Sunday Crag version) which I do remember got an audible reaction. It's now very well known Pinnacle Ridge (Grade-3)#photos&gid=1&pid=10 but back then was simply astounding to the rest of us. Now the Evans's know the Lakes very well but even they were surprised by the amount of stuff to be found. Most of their scrambles were 'made up' by following a good line from among numerous options, at least on open faces and buttresses, rather than enclosed gills. I bought the book and would often follow my own nose rather than stick to a rigid route description. Sometimes it could get me into the occasional tight spot but that's all part of the element of exploration for me. One example was a few years ago when I set off up the Wasdale side of Scafell Pike above the Sty Head track. At first, I was scrambling alongside Piers Gill and over Criscliffe Knotts to the shelf holding the Corridor Route where I started on The Round How scramble in Brian's book. Partway up this I got unnerved by the exposure and backed off (tricky!). I then reverted to making my own way up the side of Broad Crag (not in the book), had a very pleasant easy scramble and even discovered the remains of a crashed aircraft before joining the throngs heading for the Pike. You can't do worse than heading out, keeping your eyes open and going off for a look-see. Part of the fun (for me at least) is not knowing quite what you'll find - might be a waste of time but you'll have had the fun of anticipation. Here's one place I've often wondered about https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1722764 OK, it's south facing but look at all those rocky ridges! Under a good snow fall they could be just the ticket (or a nightmare slog up high-angle heather to a cruddy finish). Let me know if you go and look!

Thats interesting Lankyman. I'm re-doing the cicreone scrambling guides and have met Brian.  I've explored a number of new lines and will share them when the guides come out - first one due in october. Some rubbish in my travels but also some gems. The exploration is the fun part.

I was on broad crag the day that plane crashed but didn't know it at the time - 80mph winds, blizzards and knee deep snow at the top. Got blown 20m at sty head.

Are you sure it's the same plane? If you're 50 (as your profile says) you're far too young to have been anywhere near the scene I think I came across as it seems to have happened in 1946

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5211778

(actually the source link at the end doesn't work but the info can be found from the main site reached - I'll fix it on Geograph)

Here's a direct link to the military aircraft crash site page https://militaryaircraftcrashsites.blogspot.com/search/label/De%20Havilland...

I agree that the fun is in the exploration side of it!

must have been a different plane crash. I think it was Easter 1979.

The only plane crash I remember in the 70s was a Piper Cherokee that flew into the Wasdale Screes in March 1973.  

found this one - https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=65656. must have been this.

Nothing to do with either crash (or winter ridges!) I stumbled across another bit of wreckage on the south slope of Slight Side last year. There are a lot of them about.

Ah yes, that rings a bell. But there was also another Piper Cherokee that crashed on Esk Hause in 1966 (?) . 

Three Piper Cherokee crashes within 5 miles. They were either a very common aircraft, or one of the minor Freeview TV Channels could make a 10 part documentary series about the spooky coincidence.

It's a mod scramble in summer and mixed route in winter. It's ok in powder snow.

Did it in 1972 (first ascent?), it was certainly no harder than II but that year there was a lot of consolidated neve on it. It is well worth doing .

Did this in 1972 allthough it is given a 1st ascent in the 1990`s in the guide . Attracted by the easy left slanting gully ,no problems to a largish ledge but exit from this was extremely tricky on bare rock, probably much harder than the III grade given. Interestingly we did not record it as in those days if anything wasnt snow/ice covered it didnt qualify  as a winter climb!

 did wonder why the long buttress somewhere just north of SP that finishes high wasn't in the winter guide. 

Do you mean Long Pike Buttress? Done that in the sort of winter conditions you're describing a couple of times (soft new snow, not much ice). Thoroughly enjoyable, easyish Grade II.

SW Buttress on Broad Crag Buttress is similar, as are the scramble up the LH side of Broad Crag and the side of Great End above the Corridor Route. All good places to go in those conditions, Long Pike probably the best, certainly the best line.

Edit: second the suggestions of Sphinx Ridge and Great Carrs Buttress.

Not mentioned so far but still fun in new snow conditions - the Bowfell Links ridges, White Napes (both south facing though) and the buttress about 100m left of Gillercombe Buttress. Obviously not as reliable as the Scafells stuff.

Yep, the Bowfell Links are worth a shout, as a bit of short play in the middle of a winter (or summer) walk. This could be approached over Crinkle Crags, up the ghylls to the south of the Band or via the Climbers' Traverse and up one of the Bowfell gullies. The White Napes can be a really enjoyable scramble in any conditions; although it is very "optional" there are some really good short steps that are harder than grade 1 (up to VDiff). It's a good one to link with Threading the Needle and the Climbers' Traverse starting from the Styhead side.

It's come to my attention that some of the routes I've suggested are actually on crags where there is not supposed to be winter climbing with crampons and axes - including Grey Crag Buttermere and the Napes. This is following agreement by local climbers.

They would probably still make good "wintry" scrambles, in the right conditions (possibly the only ones we're likely to get)!

Deep Gill Integrale is definitely a climb and the crux is at the top. Well worthwhile though.