UKH

Does anyone on here know Dom Ainsley, he is attempting to run the wainwrights this week, then again this summer in record time of less than 6 days 6 hours.  I know of most top fell runners, and haven't come across Dom Ainsley, there doesn't seem to be any record of him doing any fell running on the internet either.  Is he some stealthy hero, who has slipped all our attentions or will his attempt fall apart somewhere near Great Gable on day one?

http://live.opentracking.co.uk/wwra2020/?fbclid=IwAR2RY-p5jkBQ6_L7UChkvvJyk...

https://www.ellis-brigham.com/dom-ainsley

He was due to start at 4am to day, but has knocked it back 23 hours to 3am sunday morning as the weather didn't look ideal. 

Not heard of him but have just found this:

youtube.com/watch?v=3SfazomYD7o&

Certainly a bold challenge / claim, particularly on the back of Tierney’s stellar effort. 

Always a bit sceptical of people who big up their intended challenge beforehand. Indeed there was a guy in Kendal who spent much time on social media in 2019 claiming he was going to be the first person to do the Wainwright’s in one go, unsupported. He got about 50km in and bailed, one of the many excuses he gave was that he was scared of heights... 

That said, this Dom fella looks like he’s cut from a different cloth than the aforementioned social media tart, and whilst I will maintain a soupçon of scepticism, I wish him all the very best; particularly as the forecast up here for the next two weeks is pretty much constant rain. 

Looks like he’s set off. Unexpectedly nice day too!

Looks to have not moved since 1437ish. Anyone know if he's okay?

He was only on castle crag which is 20 mins from the road, so I can't imagine he's come to any real harm. I guess either he has problems with his tracker, or some reasonably minor physical issue that has made him retire.

Yeah I thought that, especially on the ultra side I tend to know of most people and had never heard of him. Looks a fit guy, it's a huge undertaking just being out for so long.

The wind was particularly heinous, and ground totally saturated, after the past weeks weather events.  He's starting back up in the middle of the night.  I'll be joining him for a few miles.    

Has he ever done any fell running before?  

Weather was beautiful but wind very serious on top of Place Fell around 2pm this afternoon. Was glad I'd had a large fry up - stopped me from blowing away!

He's startingack up in the middle of the night.  I'll be joining him for a few miles.

Good luck, let us know how it goes!

He's got support of Audi and Ellis Brigham. I think his background is more climbing and mountaineering. But these challenges are more hiking and logistics, sleep deprivation than aerobic running ability. I'd was similar to Paul T in ultra's but my body could never stand up to the weeks battering he put his through in his run.

What’s his target time ? In this weather I would be surprised if it was sub 14 days if at all.

Where did he start? 

Keswick.

Do you know this fella then ? Gather you must if you are running with him ?

What's his schedule ?

No, not least because he didn't get there until day 2

He's had a lot of flack on social media, largely because people haven't heard of him, but he's clearly got something about him to even set off in the current conditions and forecast!

Fair play to the guy but it is a bit odd that somebody with no previous form would take on something of this size, i guess time will tell.

I don't know him, but i heard about it on social media just as he ran right past my front door and i was getting ready for a long run anyway.   His primary schedule is on the ambitious side, but he's definitely aware of that and has his sights set on getting round whatever the time.      

It’s going to take him about 3 weeks at this rate, now that would be a serious endurance test!

fixed that for you.

Its a winter round.. a winter round in good weather is just a dark summer round.

Yeah on his video he was saying he was running for 20 hours a day and sleeping for around 3, doesn't look like that's worked out for him so far as he stopped for a full night on Sunday night and he's still stopped now.

Its very difficult to keep going through multiple nights solo, and especially when the weather is mank.  As Simon said, its admirable to even think about setting off when its dreich and windy like this. Its one thing doing it in the summaer but a whole different ball game in the winter and the weather hasn't yet turned really bad. I must admit, in the past I have had very fleeting thoughts about giving something like this a try, but the thought of the inevitable storms over such a long period is not encouraging.  I reckon a more mountaineering styl;e approach is more likely to be successful over a 2 week period. I can't see the point of doing it in dreary unpleasant weather like this in the winter with no snow.  But in snowy, calmer conditions it could be brilliant if you can wait years for the conditions! Anyway good luck to Dom. Its doesn't look like it will be very nice later this week and into the weekend.

Does anyone know if this has ever been done as a continuous round in winter before? 320 miles I think so even two weeks is 23 miles a day, which would be good going in winter, day after day. 3 weeks at 15 miles per day sounds more sustainable/enjoyable.

I don't think its been done in winter before, he still hasn't moved today.

no - its definitely not been done or attempted in winter

He's on the move again...

To the folk saying it’s commendable to have a go, and good on him, and he’s going well considering the conditions, all that is obviously true.

What I find really grating about the whole venture is his claims before he set off that he was going to do this twice, once in winter , and once in summer, and in doing so go faster than Joss, Steve and Paul.  Implicitly saying he is better than these three chaps.  I think the past few days have shown he isn’t. 

Is it still a winter round if it finishes late March? 

Devils advocate- isn't a long slow run and then a full night's sleep day after day a walking holiday?

Well, i thought the same this morning, so you are not alone in that thought, i just didn't put it into words but well done you !

When i heard about it i watched his Youtube video and found the whole thing a bit odd, some of the terminology and facts were just plain wrong, seemed to lack a bit of experience if i'm honest.

pretty much right.  the pace isn't exactly matching the video promo.

I have started a live updates blog for the attempt. May require some patience...any news, would love to hear on the forum! https://uptosummit.home.blog/2020/02/18/%f0%9f%94%b4-live-dom-ainsley-wainw... 

I have found some photographs etc here https://www.facebook.com/optimaladventuresUK/

Actually I'm a bit ashamed of writing that from the comfort of my warm house. If it carries on at this pace for a few more days maybe it would be justified but he could be having all manner of issues and just sticking it out.

If it's never been done in winter before, then that is a great challenge to go at, just getting round in 2 weeks would be good going in my books, he's a young lad, I don't know any 23 year olds who could have thought of this and had the initiative to get it off the ground.

I can understand any talk of breaking the summer record is going to be met with a fair bit of scepticism. Time will tell how he gets on with this, and his summer attempt.

Love the blog. I will be sure to follow along.

I'm planning to nip up Seat Sandal tomorrow am (during the brief spell of slightly more settled weather / a portion of my alloted play time for the week) so I'll provide a conditions report tomorrow. 

Cheers!

BB

Brilliant. Thanks very much!

It is but once someone has done it, albeit slowly, that's a marker for others to beat.

I'm not sure how experienced he is though. Biggish days are one thing but day after day with wet blistered feet becomes something else. 

Someone just did the first continuous traverse of the white mountain summits in winter, pretty horrific conditions, camping out etc. He was slowish, but he did long days and kept going and most were impressed.

At the end of day 3 he's just under half way through Steve's day 2 schedule, so if he keeps this up he should finish in a couple of weeks. Which seems pretty impressive to me, given the conditions!

He's bedded down less than a mile down the road from Joss Naylor's house. 

I think that’s a fairly optimistic way of reading the numbers. He has done in 3 days what Paul managed in 27 hours, if he keeps up his pace that will see him finish in 17 days 8 hours. But he was a lot slower yesterday than on Sunday morning, so I can’t see him keeping going for another 2 weeks. 

from what I can see its walking pace which could be sustained for 2 weeks if the body holds up.  with the storms that are expected, it will be tough to keep going whatever, but with support and a night's sleep, mainly a matter of the will to keep going.

He is moving again. Weather up Scafell Pike looks set to be nothing short of wintry today - 60mph gusts and rain/hail/sleet. 

https://uptosummit.home.blog/2020/02/18/%f0%9f%94%b4-live-dom-ainsley-wainw... 

If you are out there today, give us a shout with images if possible. Send to up2summit@gmail.com 

From the blog: "Dom Ainsley is a relative unknown in the fell running community, seeming to be more associated with mountaineering and climbing."

Can't say I've heard of him in any of those contexts!

Taking that from the Ellis Brigham website. Cannot say I have knowledge of him either, hence the "seeming to be more associated"

Not sure what your point is?

The quote I selected would suggest that whoever wrote it thinks he's more known as a mountaineer and climber. And I for one haven't heard of him as either of those. Might it be more accurate to say he isn't actually 'known' for anything?

Not disparaging what the guy is trying to do or making any judgement on his abilities but there's a right whiff of 'social media event' around this.

If it's written by his sponsors then it basically is an advert in some form and hence is likely to be bigged up a bit. Seeming to be more associated doesn't mean that he's well known in either, it just might be a roundabout way of saying his background is more in climbing than fellrunning. 

From your posts it sort of looks like you're part of his team although I'm fairly sure that's not the case?

A nice morning out before the wet and sleety weather came back in. Wind has certainly died down since Sunday with the odd strong gust. Icy underfoot in places down to 450m ish and snow well established from 600m. Deep drifts in places!

Well done Dom! 

seems to have gone walkabout near lords rake. there's nowhere to hide with a tracker!

Not the case. Just keeping tabs on the whole thing where I can

Nothing since 12:39. Seems to have taken a rather looong route under Scafell Crag. Not sure how he would plan to reascend to Lingmell... Anyone know that bit of ground a bit better? I have only skirted that area. https://uptosummit.home.blog/2020/02/18/%f0%9f%94%b4-live-dom-ainsley-wainw...

quite agree. I really dislike the way social media and sponsors have to big things up.  and lets be honest - most people that do ultras spend an awful lot of time walking, but it seems to be looked down upon to refer to walking as opposed to running. long distance stuff like this can be quite humbling. better to downstate than overegg things.

I'd guess the diversion was due to deep snow? Anyway he's back on course now.

seems to have been tracker error - now on lingmell

According to the Open Tracker facebook page there's no coverage around there.

https://www.facebook.com/opentracking/photos/a.401929046640457/148526055497...

Yes, true. However, I checked with my climbing friends and they did not know him; neither do I. However, that is not to say I had asked every climber. Easy to jump to the "he's completely unknown to anyone" conclusion and then someone pipes up with the opposite, so I stuck with the vague language

Check out his Instagram page, I think he's a young gun who is as keen as hell and has maybe oversold his capabilities a bit, as we all have at some point i'm sure.

I've definitely done this but it was in a pre-social media world so I pretty much got away with it.

Yeah this was my first impression. I am refraining from passing too much judgement. His split from Lingmell to Scafell Pike was only 3 minutes behind Paul's, so can't deny he is actually moving. Any idea he is doing it in 7 days is, frankly, not happening, but he keeps getting up when you think he is down so the proof will be in the pudding!

When I was 17, I had the idea that I was going to be the first person to do a continuous winter round of the Munro's. I was pretty set on it despite my only winter experience being in reasonable weather in Snowdonia. Looking back I obviously didn't have a clue what it involved or how hardcore that would be. My mum was worried about me and said I couldn't do it until I had finished my A levels. I think I soon became more interested in girls and realised it wasn't going to impress a 17 year old Oxford lass.

If Dom gets round this in 2 weeks it will be a first and a great effort for a young lad. I hope the breaking the record nonsense he had to spout to impress the sponsors doesn't detract from his achievements.

His average speed seems to be about 2mph. a comparison of individual splits over a short distance can be misleading because of rest times.

I'm not sure who's doing his nav but they have been pretty spot on so far, unless he's on GPS, seemed to miss the entry to Lords Rake but that might have been conditions, picking the BG trod up onto Bowfell from Rossett Pike is not easy and is next up, Little Stand to Hard Knott is a tough down and up too, i'm presuming his overnight is Seathwaite tonight and that's a long way off yet......

Just wondering what Joss would have said on his Instagram back in the day: "Off out for a log run, we'll see how it goes"

Something like that I imagine, but with a Cumbrian accent.

thats what I love about fell running (as opposed to organised ultras and trail runs) - the masters of understatement, the lack of rules, gear and frippery.

I'm not quite sure what a 'log run' is but you get my point! Fair play Dom Ainsley though, not being snippy - he's a lot further in than my longest long run

His Instagram says he was planning North face of Grands Jorrasses, North Face of Dru and a sub 10hr Mont Blanc last spring but no mountaineering posts since then. 

Looks like he's planning to overnight in Langdale, so he'll have a bit of a climb just to get back on route tomorrow morning. 

Seems to be going down the band.

I wonder if he's bailed - relative to what he's done it's not that far to Hardknott Pass where he could have met his support, rather than adding an extra 500m+ for tomorrow.

Indeed, dropping to Langdale seems an odd choice. Certainly, the weather up here has been pretty grim all afternoon. Hopefully he's just having a tactical rest and will be back at it later. 

can't see that - must have bailed.  it is pretty horrible weather

I think there's chance he might just had enough for the day. Hard Knott is still quite a hard wet flog from Three Tarns and a good deal of it would be into the rain and wind. I've just come in and it's not nice up there.

Tomorrow he could start up Pile O'Blisco, Cold Pike and then Long Top before heading down Adam-a-Cove to Moasdale Hause and Hard Knott. Overnight in Langdale is not catastrophically silly.

Heard from a wee birdy he is currently with Rob Jebb and planning a stop in Old Dungeon Gyll...

Now you are talking, a Wainwright pub crawl, in winter, seriously impressive.

I think 'crawl' is the best way of describing it! Crawl out ODG and straight into Stickle. 

In reply to... :

However much stick he's getting for over publicising this, you've got to admire that he's putting his money where his mouth is, so to speak.

Publicising can be seen as arrogant or ballsy. At this stage, if he is up and moving again tomorrow, I am leaning towards the latter.

He has done in 4 days what Paul managed in 33 hours, that puts him on approximately 2.9x Paul’s schedule or just over 18 days. 
It’s an interesting observation that it’s not beyond the abilities of most fit fell runners to knock out 2000m+ per day for a couple of weeks and do a Wainwright round. I think this attempt will get a lot of people thinking they might have a go.
 

interesting comment further up about having to claim he was planning on breaking the record this summer to get sponsors involved. What a bonkers world we live in, where people hope to be judged on what they claim they can do rather than what they have done. 

He’s dropping into Langdale and his support are round near Conniston, that’s something of a problem.

Post from Paul Tierney on Fell Runners UK: "Myself, Charlie Day and Matthew Beresford went in search of the Dom today on his Winter Wainwrights attempt and trotted for a couple of hours with him. Suggested he accompany us down to Langdale to get out of the grim conditions for a bit but he was having none of it. He eventually decided very sensibly to pop down the band and get a bit of shelter in langdale. I think the 3 of us were in agreement he’s as hard as nails. I’ve no doubt he is strong enough to get round. Just hope the weather gets a little kinder for him over the coming days. Not safe to be on your own in those conditions.”

Looks like he is driving over Wrynose Pass this morning. Perhaps that’s it?

Have you read the Colin O'Brady thread?

I'll preface the below by saying im not suggesting it's the case here because I know nothing about the guy.

I have seen a few instances lately of people seeking corporate sponsors for challenges/activities/record attempts that many folks have done or would do without any such assistance. These things almost always seem to be worthy personal challenges but quite far from cutting edge activity. I don't really understand why someone would feel the need to do this other than if they can't afford to fund the activity themselves in which case, save up.  Or perhaps they just like the attention?

It's all well and good getting corporate sponsors, and that is very easy with social media today, but corporate sponsors don't give you performance benefits (well, unless you get sponsored by Nike...). I think this attempt has rankled many because we are seeing corporates like Audi and...Betfair (!!???) listed against a fell running challenge, which is not something any of us would like to see become a common feature. What are people's thoughts on this?

It can also be a shot in the foot for folks. Seeking sponsors for challenges you may not be prepared for means you are more likely to completely bury yourself trying because you've built up so much hype and responsibility to sponsors. Yes, that is a silly thing to do, but I actually feel sorry for folks who do that, because it increases pressure tenfold.

I know of running folk who spend a long time seeking to become a ‘sponsored athlete’ they sometimes are successful and get a nice shiny bag of kit from Montane or the like every few months, post lots on social media, get likes and comments and feel like they have ‘made it’. There seems to be a whole community of such folk who all like and comment on each other’s posts. It all comes down to endorphins for their social media addiction I think.

Its not the sponsors that bother me so much, but rather the language and the overhyping. It seems you have to make bold claims and over-play certain aspects in order to get media attention.  It also focuses on particular. well-known challenges when there are a host of other things out there. 

His tracker is still at wrynose. Is this over? 

Guessing so, his Facebook post suggested he dropped into Langdale to get out of the weather and he couldn't contact his support for 5 hours, seeing as he was in Langdale and they were the Duddon valley its hardly surprising as neither have good phone signal, i'm pretty sure it was over the minute he descended the Band.

According to Paul T, he descended the Band to avoid the weather, and seemed to do so grudgingly. I wouldn't be surprised to see him out again...

I'm presuming coverage is poor over Wrynose - he doesn't appear to have moved for about an hour. 

The Wynose location was logged at 23.48 last night.

Am just wondering why he's down at Wrynose at all.  Is his route not Cold Pike and then on to Hard Knott via Little Stand?  I hope everything is OK, presumably he has met his support vehicle there?

Good spot to overnight I guess. 

Maybe his support came to get him from Langdale, parked up at wrynose and will either drop him back in Langdale this am, or he'll start from there. 

He went "missing" last night, there was a worried thread on his facebook page. He was found in the early hours, seems like it was just a tracker malfunction.

I thought that was his father who was missing?

He is wearing Nike Pegasus trail shoes, nice shoes but terrible in the wet and not the best grip. I just did a 25 mile run/snowshoe in the whites over pretty horrendous terrain, -25C, and my feet are destroyed. Ended up with a non-freezing cold tissue injury basically. Partly a sock issue but I learnt a lesson.. basically dont run when it's -25C and if you step into through a snow bridge and get wet feet just turn around and go home...

I expect you're right!

15.43 - He's in the Pie Shop in Broughton!

It was. Now '''found".

Looking at the latest updates I think there's a planning lesson to be learned. At first glance you might think a longer, tougher, winter round would benefit from a larger support team but actually a smaller, more flexible team with more closely spaced supply points is probably better equipped to deal with contingencies like they faced yesterday and will doubtless continue to face if he carries on.

Totally agree, i also think blindly following the route and stops of Tierneys route is a massive oversight in winter, you need to split it into much smaller manageable chunks, there is a load of road crossings where a couple of hours off the hill would have made a difference, also added to the fact that nutrition is totally different in winter, all this comes from experience though.

Ooh, movement again but by vehicle I think.

Yep, looks like he is heading home. I have been enjoying the dot watching, an impressive effort in those conditions.

Going to be interesting to see if this gets done in winter anytime soon. I imagine it would be within the capability of quite a few people to get round in 15 - 20 days if they get lucky with the weather. But that is a really big if, a lot of luck would be needed to get 2 + weeks of reasonable weather in winter.

Given the weather this week I can't image there would be many people who would have got much further than Dom did.

Yeah I think he learnt a lot. It looked pretty light weight gear in general. In winter, in those conditions, you have to put more on. TBH I would even use a light weight waterproof boot for such a challenge. Hours of wet feet does not work.

Well done for trying though, he's young, he will learn and come back. He gave it a solid go.

"Wainwright’s Update everyone. 100+ miles in and Mother Nature has bested us this time. I am postponing the winter attempt as it’s too dangerous. The weather has been ridiculous and is forecasted to get worse with more stormy conditions and weather warnings on way with more 70mph+ winds on the tops on metoffice. Visibility has been near zero up high, ground is saturated lower down, some checkpoints are difficult/inaccessible due to flooding And I’ve had to change course several times on route to avoid certain sections of snow and ice on steep rocky descents. I’ve took a lot of risks these past four days especially going solo and have nearly paid for it bad several times. Those who know me know how much work I’ve put in for this behind closed doors

But I WILL be back to finish what I started and I am still going for the Wainwrights summer/winter double this year (August & December). I am down but not out! Sorry for letting you all down. The legs and body felt good throughout and I’m by far and away in best physical condition of my life but weather wins this time

Also, thanks to everyone who has supported me, friends, family and sponsors, it has been incredible the amount of people who are getting behind me now. We are not done yet, I’m only 23, I’m just getting started!! This just a learning curve. We could not have got more unlucky with the weather but the train keeps rolling. The 2020 Wainwright’s double is STILL ON regardless of all the naysayers. We go again in August in 6 months time.
I will finish what I set out to do, mark my words!!!"

That's a long time. I think 2 weeks would be feasible hiking it, long days out. Bit by bit, manageable chunks. But it needs someone willing to be out for that long.

My wife and kid/kids won't be too happy with me for that.

Well 3 weeks is still 16 miles a day. In winter for 21 days every day is pretty good going I would say and would give scope for a 2 or 3 days off for atrocious weather and still have to average less than 20 miles a day. That's walkable.

2 weeks I'm sure would be doable by some but means 23 miles and 2000+ meters every day (average).  That sounds like a lot to me for 14 days straight.

I can echo that he has had awful weather having been here all week and going up a few fells.

Sunday was unthinkable to be up high in those winds.

Monday I went up GriZedale Pike which was cold and interesting.

Wednesday I went up again but it had turned to snow above 600m and the wind remained, blizzard conditions.

I had on a balaclava, goggles, gore tex pro shell jacket with a double pile jacket and helly t underneath. On legs I had thin ronnies, fjallraven Barents and overtrousers. Moving uphill with a 15 lb pack I was just warm enough.

Hats off to this fella for even setting off on this challenge 

Indeed! It's been grim over this half term week in the Lakes. Proper weather. Fair play to Dom for toughing it out this long. I've enjoyed following along. Looking forward to seeing how the Summer record attempt goes!

Not really, for a record like the AT people will do 50 miles a day for 40 days withe huge amounts of ascent. Its certainly manageable with support. They aren't carrying masses of gear.

Maybe I'm looking at it from the perspective of a ordinary (once) fit mountain walker/fell runner and thinking what would be possible but not a complete miserable trudge fest. And you are looking more to the extremes of what would could be achieved by a few incredibly fit endurance athletes. 

The fact that the summer record for this round is about 50 miles per day suggests that would not be possible for a winter round even for elite athletes.

That would very much depend on conditions. Although there are no rules for the Wainwrights I'm aware of its generally accepted that winter round = winter months rather than winter conditions. So with benign atmospheric and underfoot conditions a winter time approaching the summer one would be possible.

I accept that in the extremely unlikely occurance of great conditions for 7 days a very quick winter round could be done, although I imagine the double length of darkness and the cold would slow anybody down by a reasonable amount.

But again I think we are talking about different things, you and roadrunner are talking about the extremes of human endurance, achievable by only a few people in extremely good conditions.  I'm talking about what is a acheivable by a lot bigger % of the mountain going population. 

I like the fact that at the moment a decently fit person in his fifties like me could go round in two - three weeks and be the first person ever to do this in winter. I do understand that there is a very small % of serious mountain athletes who could go round in 1 - 2 weeks depending on the conditions and make my pipe dream completely unachievable.

No, I just think 20-30 would be, depending on terrain.

the lakes isn’t that rough so I think a fit runner/hiker could manage 25 a day.

but depends on the winter. It’s the lakes, winter can be basically just a dark normal day or proper winter. Tbh I’d rather have proper cold conditions than what Dom faced.

He’s had a shitter this week. Some truly awful conditions on the tops. Today beckoned well with sunshine and snow on the tops from about 450 m. This was replaced throughout the day with very strong winds at lake level and obliteration of the summits. Glad I didn’t change my plans to  walk around Coledale Horseshoe. 

​​​​​​I was replying to the bit where you said that even elite athletes couldn't do it in that time frame.

The winter record is low hanging fruit for the simple reason that no one (I think) has really tried it! Records like this don't tend to attract the crème de la crème of endurance runners (if that's the right term) as they've got better known fish to fry and/or don't want to commit the time to something so obscure that could also impact on form later in the season.