Best thing I’ve read for ages:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/07/frankie-boyle-election-cou...
It's all very sad.
Frankie Boyle is basically a left wing Bernard Manning. Right wing comedy was effectively banned in this country for decades since the eighties. But that is changing now.
> Frankie Boyle is basically a left wing Bernard Manning. Right wing comedy was effectively banned in this country for decades since the eighties. But that is changing now.
Which are your favourite right wing comedians?
I normally hate frankie Boyle but enjoyed that article. Thanks for posting as had ignored it on the guardian website.
> Frankie Boyle is basically a left wing Bernard Manning. Right wing comedy was effectively banned in this country for decades since the eighties. But that is changing now.
Boyle= Bernard manning, maybe you should take up comedy yourself.
Sat in pub cackling at this.
Then google revanchism. Entertaining AND educational.
(Unlike our Paul)
> Which are your favourite right wing comedians?
Personally mine are Donald and Boris. The characters aren't that believable but those press conference sketches are comedy gold!
Is Paul a Russian bot?
Nobody has banned right-wing comedians, Paul. There's just not that many of them because they're not as f*cking funny, which tends to be career limiting for a comedian.
Really? They get no airtime in the UK. There are plenty of very good ones. Alistair Williams, Geoff Norcott, even Ricky Gervais (though he’s just anti-PC). The US is fairer. How about Bill Burr? What about South Park?
With the exception of Stuart Lee and Tom Walker (and sometimes the aforementioned Frankie Boyle), modern left wing / PC / woke comedy sucks ass - badly. It used to be good back in the eighties. It’s just not funny anymore, because it doesn’t do what good comedy should do, which is push boundaries in the tradition of the court jester. Christ, even Boris got some laughs with a couple of quips last night, compared to Jezza’s monotone irritation.
Bernard manning was a notable racist and bigot.
Right wing comedy, what’s that? Jim Davidson being a racist cnut and getting all butthurt when he’s called out on it?
Ooooh yes Geoff Norcott, isn’t he great, daring to be a right wing e.g. conservative comedian. Trouble is he’s about as funny as tick born encephalitis.
Just like every single “comic” on Channel 4 and most on the BBC then? It comes down to personal taste I suppose. I don’t find that very many left wing comedians are funny, because like I said, unlike people of the past, Ben Elton, Stuart Lee, Frankie Boyle, they’re too scared to push the envelope and potentially offend someone. And without the potential to offend you’ve lost the potential to think, it’s just mind numbing pap.
Crikey! Do you really think the FB article was “mind numbing pap”?
What? Read my posts again when you’ve sobered up.
I photographed a Jethro gig about 5 years back for work, so pretty sure he wasn’t “effectively banned” back then for being a right wing comic and moreover a bit of a sexist and racist. It was a regional arts awards do thing, so hardly the right crowd for him, God knows what idiot booked him, but what the hell I was there to work so I might as well try to enjoy it.
Before the show I introduced myself to him as the photographer and was chatting to him with a few other folks and he was just a natural; a funny guy, wise-cracking, ribbing us all, not missing a beat. He was charming.
First time he got up on stage he was hilarious. Mostly jokes about the mother in law, a bit Two Ronnies but way edgier, anyway he had the crowd in stitches. So far so good.
Second time around, warming to the theme of women he started to throw a bit of sexism in there and we could all start to feel the disquiet from the audience.
Third act he just openly cracks out the racism along the the now rampant sexism and this time around everyone is completely ignoring him.
Having done probably thousands of gigs, he realised this, called everybody “a bunch of lovvie c*^%s”, hurled his microphone across the stage and fekked off home - it was the best gag of the night.
Shame for him that he didn’t realise where his best material lay, shame he hadn’t moved with the times, shame I was booked for stills and not video.
Anyway, I expect he’s still out there doing gigs, soldiering on, but given that he couldn’t make a smallish crowd of pissed up partygoers laugh, I expect those gigs are mostly pretty small and go for the most part, unnoticed.
He ain’t banned, he just ain’t funny.
Yet Ricky Gervais says we must vote for JCs Labour Party.
Ah yes. My apologies I should have read your post closer. Despite the late hour no beer taken however - I’m in Oz.
What? You’re in Oz without a beer! What are you a flaming Shiela?
Thank you for your concern. I’ll get myself on the outside of one asap😊
There’s plenty here, as always it’s hit and miss, I guess it depends on your taste.
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCErEMQf4SmG0wzGV2gxg7jw
I would also say that when it comes to online culture the right smashes it out of the park. Meme culture is dominated by people who lean more to the right and free speech advocates, as are the amusing social commentators on places like YT; PewDeePie, Sargon of Akkad, Steven Crowder, Count Dankula, DoctorRandommercam to name just a few.
What? Down votes for my joke with Darron?
There’s some properly uptight, miserable and puckered up lefties in this place sucking the joy out of life. Mary Whitehouses on steroids. I guess it’s because all their joy has seeped away, so they can only feed off that of others. Bloody vampires! The true comedic value of the left is watching them wallow in their own misery and self-flagellation. It really is quite entertaining.
Surely the reason you see more left wing comics, certainly on the TV at the moment is because the Tories have been in power for a decade now so they provide the most material for those doing satirical comedy. Corbyn and his crew get their stick but being the ones in power the Tories are going to be subject to more jokes. It's not as funny kicking the under dog.
All the best comedians are leftists- Stewart Lee, Frankie Boyle, Billy Connelly,Armando Iannucci ,Steve Coogan, Ricky Gervais etc
Right wing comedians like Bernard Manning, Jim Davidson, Roy Chubby Brown and South Park are awful and pick on minorities as well as sowing division.
> Yet Ricky Gervais says we must vote for JCs Labour Party.
And Bill Burr is a Bernie Sanders fan. It’s almost like freedom of speech isn’t a left/right issue.
I've never heard of Bill Burr.
Yes, they were, but they are all yesterday’s people. Today? Nish Kumar? Josh Widecombe? Russell Howard? Tedious, tedious, tedious!
Bill Burr, Dave Chappell, South Park, sh1t posters all over the internet - they all right or reject the left’s PC ideology - even Ricky Gervais (you have seen him go after Jessica Yaniv, haven’t you?)
Let’s find out what Bill thinks of tax burdens on the rich...
No freedom of speech is not left/right. The problem is there are small but very noisy elements on the left doing their best to kill it and labelling everyone who objects as any number of far-right ism.
The Tories are nowhere near as right wing as they were in the eighties, in fact they’re fairly centrist and even have some “progressive” policies. It’s just labels stuck onto people and in this digital soundbite age, people read the headline, half a paragraph at most, then swipe.
> Right wing comedians like Bernard Manning, Jim Davidson, Roy Chubby Brown and South Park are awful and pick on minorities as well as sowing division.
Where are the first 3 now or for the last 20 years? And South Park? They don’t pick on minorities. They pick on the blind acceptance by the majority of social justice lunacy and the white pearl clutching “liberals” who dictate that destructive lunacy.
And... it’s funny AF.
Jessica Yaniv is a creepy peado.
LOL. We have found agreement! Well wax my balls!
I know young leftists who also watch South Park and enjoy it but to the more discerning of us who can see through it, it is nothing more than cheap laughs at minorities.
Don't get me wrong cheap laughs are fun when directed at majorities because that is practically everyone so it becomes impersonal but when it is directed at minorities then it isn't and becomes specific and damaging.
> No freedom of speech is not left/right. The problem is there are small but very noisy elements on the left doing their best to kill it.
In the recent past, free speech was largely limited from the right. The powerful; the monarchy, aristocracy and religion were protected from criticism often with specific laws. There was even a government position, lord chamberlain, to ‘no platform’ the critics. At the moment it has swung the other way; and criticism of minorities is under attack, normally through no platforming, but occasionally through the courts.
> The Tories are nowhere near as right wing as they were in the eighties, in fact they’re fairly centrist and even have some “progressive” policies.
The tories are more socially right wing than previously; they will happily insult gay people and Muslims, but don’t generally want to restrict their rights.
However, I would say the current government is economically far more ideologically right wing than any I have seen before. Raab, Patel and Truss are way to the right of Margaret Thatcher’s government.
Edit: meant to say - socially left wing/progressive and economically right wing
We’ll have to agree to disagree on South Park. I think they are very much anti-establishment and anti-consensus thinking and promote the sovereignty of the individual, including those of minorities. They very much point out the hypocrisy in the hidden and unintentional biases of the hand wringing virtuous.
Can’t disagree much with that.
Edit: My point was that some see them as equivalent to the 4th Reich.
> All the best comedians are leftists- Stewart Lee, Frankie Boyle, Billy Connelly,Armando Iannucci ,Steve Coogan, Ricky Gervais etc
You put Stewart Lee at the head of that list?
Ratko Mladic has let himself go.
I would. He’s a comedy genius. He’s miles ahead of the others mentioned. I’m definitely not left wing, but I can recognise genuine and original talent. His UKIP skit was one of the funniest things I’ve seen and I don’t even agree with him completely on this.
I can usually enjoy a good laugh at a joke even if I don't agree with the comedian but I somehow just can't see Stewart Lee as funny. However funny the material his delivery just doesn't work for me.
That’s cool by me. I should have put an IMO in my post. The fact that we all get our buttons pushed in different ways is one of the joys of life.
> There’s some properly uptight, miserable and puckered up lefties in this place sucking the joy out of life.
These are not miserable people. They are not sucking the joy out of life. They are trying to make people's lives less miserable by criticising casual sexism, racism etc. wherever they see it. Sure racist and sexist jokes can be funny - if you're a white man like me. But it's not funny if you're the butt of the joke. There's no joy for a woman hearing yet another cheap sexist joke and being told she has no sense of humour.
I like South Park and other offensive humour that laughs at my beliefs. I'm not against that sort of thing. But too often "un PC" is just an excuse for old school racism and sexism.
The issue that I had was that people seem to have an issue with me poking fun at traditional redneck Aussie attitudes, similar to those of Bernard Manning and Jim Davison, both of whom I’ve always found loathsome. The joke was not aimed at women, but I guess the fragile got triggered.
I don’t believe in protected groups, I actually think that it is a form of discrimination, as if these groups are too weak and need our help. I hate racism and sexism as intensely as any other, but too often there are too many accusations where none are justified.
You know what? I got your joke, thought it was funny and didn't have a problem with it. But I think you went well over the top accusing the dislikers of being miserable and sucking the joy out of life. You could have just said "Whoosh..."
> Bernard manning was a notable racist and bigot.
> Right wing comedy, what’s that? Jim Davidson being a racist cnut and getting all butthurt when he’s called out on it?
Bravo!!
Yeah, I know, I just like agitating the phoney fragile.
> Personally mine are Donald and Boris. The characters aren't that believable but those press conference sketches are comedy gold!
Here' my Favourite Boris joke,
Andrew Marr, "What's your favourite lie of your election campaign, Boris?"
Boris,"I don't tell lies!"
AM, "Yes, that's one of mine too"
> What? You’re in Oz without a beer! What are you a flaming Shiela?
No, he's a strawman
Why? See, I like a risque offensive joke, but I have to take great care who I tell them to, because I need to be certain that the audience doesn't miss the point and think I'm genuinely a bigot. The point is that there plenty of people out there who will just spout this stuff without being ironic, and they are a problem. "The phoney fragile" are trying to make society better, would you rather no one did anything about sexist and racist language?
”In order to be able to think, you have to risk causing offence.”
The overprotection of people makes them weak. I am something of a free-speech extremist, anything short of direct incitement is fine by me. The best policy is to have it out in the open and to openly challenge it if it is truly offensive. I believe in that way you create a robust society with robust citizens. The phoney-fragile are damaging, not improving society.
I'm a believer in free speech too, but I also believe that no extreme position is ever correct, there always needs to be some balance.
I assume you're a straight white man? Me too. It's all very well believing that people should be able to say whatever they want, but I've never been in the position where people with power over me have put me down every day, all my life for a trait I was born with. I will never understand what this is like, but I can see how a joke that seems innocent to the teller can feel like yet another put down.
We do need the right to be offensive, and this right is being eroded, not by the phoney-fragile, but by the bigots who use offensive humour to attack vulnerable people. It's because of them that the right to say anything you please needs to be restricted.
> I'm a believer in free speech too, but I also believe that no extreme position is ever correct, there always needs to be some balance.
Sorry, but no you don’t - as is evidenced by what you’ve written below. Technically, neither do I, as I believe incitement to crime should be restricted.
> I assume you're a straight white man? Me too. It's all very well believing that people should be able to say whatever they want, but I've never been in the position where people with power over me have put me down every day, all my life for a trait I was born with. I will never understand what this is like, but I can see how a joke that seems innocent to the teller can feel like yet another put down.
You assume correctly. However, I would say that straight white men are very much in that position at the moment. The level of bigotry shown towards them from certain quarters (the woke academic left) is astounding and almost completely tolerated. Again, people have the right to say and believe what they want, but people also have the right to push back against it, including straight white men. This was how women (and men) gained suffrage, how racism has been considerably lessened and the gay community are now welcomed by the majority. It was achieved through tough discussions and this enabled the changing of hearts and minds. It was not achieved through childish foot stamping and “liberal” tears. I believe that kind of approach promotes fragility and does nothing to change attitudes, perhaps it even enforces them? It certainly does not prepare people should something truly hideous come along.
> We do need the right to be offensive, and this right is being eroded, not by the phoney-fragile, but by the bigots who use offensive humour to attack vulnerable people. It's because of them that the right to say anything you please needs to be restricted.
I’d rather know who they are than push them underground. It could actually be seen as a kindness. Surely it is better to argue bigots out of their ill-conceived theories than let them fester and mutate in seclusion. Again, the phoney-fragility is making people weak. And what do you think real fascists would make of safe spaces, comfort puppies, pussy hats, a molly-coddled youth in Ché Guevara t-shirts, with acne and vegan biceps? It wouldn’t be pretty or take very long.
> You assume correctly. However, I would say that straight white men are very much in that position at the moment.
Woop woop, you've pushed the button!
No they are f*cking not. If there's one thing that is guaranteed to flip me into a rage it's a straight white man whinging that they are oppressed. You and me have no f*cking idea whatsoever what it is like to be oppressed. Have you faced daily harrassment from the police because of your colour? Have you been told you can't do a job because of your sex? How have you been oppressed? By being prevented from saying something controversial. OK, that's not ideal, but it is not in the same league as real oppression. You can still do the job you want, walk down the street unmolested by the authorities. You are not oppressed.
Yes, some people have gone too far with stopping offence and moved into stifling legitimate discussion. This is bad, not just for free speech but also for encouraging a bigot backlash. But that doesn't change the fact that bigotry needs to be challenged wherever it's found. And it doesn't f*cking equal oppression of white men.
Right, I'm going to go away and calm down.
Am I understanding you right that essentially your position is that a bit of racism and sexism is just character building for those at the receiving end, as long as no one is calling for violence?
I think for a large part your proposed system of just calling things out if they are offensive is in fact where we are right now. Never have those at the receiving end of discrimination been in a stronger position to stand up and say “I don’t like it when you say that about me”. The problem it seems is that you disagree about what they are allowed to be offended by. I’m afraid you don’t get to decide what other people feel humiliated, disempowered or offended by.
If your ideal system is indeed “I’ll say what I want, and you can just call me out if it’s offensive” then it stands to reason that you have to expect to be called out from time to time, and take it with good grace. Just lashing back out at “phoney fragiles” etc. just makes a mockery of your system. In action your system seem to more closely resemble “I’ll say what I want, and if you are offended then you’re wrong!” We’ve already tried that system, and it just made for a lot of miserable and disadvantaged people.
EDIT: I see that you are going with the position that you are oppressed as a straight white male. I presume that oppression is in the form of your casual racism and sexism not being tolerated or found funny. If so I don’t think that is oppression, it’s just all those affected doing exactly what you praised them for and pushing back. If your oppression is to do with anything else, I’d be interested to hear what it is as I honestly don’t see it or have any idea what you are on about. Comparing a straight white male today to those who fought for suffrage or to end segregation is just f*cking absurd.
> Woop woop, you've pushed the button!
Good. Don’t hide, show your true colours.
> No they are f*cking not. If there's one thing that is guaranteed to flip me into a rage it's a straight white man whinging that they are oppressed. You and me have no f*cking idea whatsoever what it is like to be oppressed.
Ah, I didn’t realise it was oppression Olympics.
Men; higher rate of suicide, higher rate of work place death, lower life expectancy, more likely to die in war, more likely to be murdered, receive longer sentences for identical crimes than women, discriminated against in divorce court, no reproduction rights whatsoever (either way)... that’ll do for now.
>Have you faced daily harrassment from the police because of your colour?
Not for skin colour, but definitely for class prejudice.
>Have you been told you can't do a job because of your sex?
Yes, a company I worked wanted a female lead engineer, so promoted someone with fewer qualifications and less experience. A similar thing happened to me when I was a climbing instructor. A woman was hired at a higher rate of pay, despite have less experience and no qualifications.
>How have you been oppressed?
See above.
>By being prevented from saying something controversial. OK, that's not ideal, but it is not in the same league as real oppression. You can still do the job you want, walk down the street unmolested by the authorities. You are not oppressed.
See above. So are you saying discrimination is OK, it just depends on degrees?
> Yes, some people have gone too far with stopping offence and moved into stifling legitimate discussion. This is bad, not just for free speech but also for encouraging a bigot backlash. But that doesn't change the fact that bigotry needs to be challenged wherever it's found.
I totally agree.
> And it doesn't f*cking equal oppression of white men.
You really should look at intersectional academia. Things like gender grievance studies and critical race theory. There is some disgusting bigotry out there towards white cis-gender males. The concept of white privilege, male privilege, that white men should feel guilty for the sins of their ancestors but feel no pride for their achievements. There are people in academia saying that the whiteness (whatever TF that means) needs to be destroyed. Sure, it’s not nearly as bad as past prejudices, but that kind of sh1t needs to be nipped in the bud. Bigotry is bigotry. Discrimination is discrimination.
> Right, I'm going to go away and calm down.
Good. Too much fragility? Pathetic.
Strawman after strawman
150 years ago, life was sh1t for nearly everyone, including the majority of white men. Oppression was the daily norm. You do realise that suffrage was only extended to all men in 1918, just 11 years ahead of all women.
Oh bollox to it, I can’t be bothered... you won’t listen... let alone think.
I hope you get whichever Jordan Peterson book you asked Santa for this year.
Nah, it’s good, read them both. Haven’t read Mein Kampf though. It should get here on time if you post it tomorrow. Address:
The Bunker, Bendlerblock, Reich Chancellory, Berlin, BR19 45FU, THE FATHERLAND.
Okay, just revise my question then. How is the fight for suffrage, for either men or women, in any way relevant to you not liking sexism and racism being called out today?
You are right, oppression was the norm not that long ago. Personally I am glad that we are moving further away from that. I still have absolutely no idea what that has to do with your supposed plight today as a straight white man.
All bigotry and discrimination should be called out and not allowed to fester. It’s not a question on degrees. You can’t replace one form with another. If you are not aware and are interested then research things like Grievance Studies and Critical Race Theory. I would recommend the following people, Eric Weinstein, Brett Weinstein (brother) and his wife, Heather Heying, Jonathan Haidt, Christina Hoff-Sommers (all of these are left leaning), Douglas Murray, and yes, Jordan Peterson.
I have to say I still think that there are contradictions between your call for bigotry and discrimination to be called out and the fact that this conversation was started by people disliking a comment from you that appeared to be making fun of someone by calling them a woman (even if that was misunderstood).
I have my own opinions on many of the sources of oppression and discrimination against men that you mentioned earlier, and I would disagree that they are oppression in the way you frame it. E.g men are more likely to die in a dangerous job because women were/are seen as too weak and vulnerable to be allowed to do those jobs.
But still, thank you for a civil reply. I may well look up some of those sources, if only to try to understand your point of view as I don’t think I do as it stands. I can’t honestly say I expect to be convinced but I am interested in the views others hold. In the meantime, goodnight. Fun as this is it’s not going to help me with an ironed shirt for work tomorrow.
> >Have you faced daily harrassment from the police because of your colour?
> Not for skin colour, but definitely for class prejudice.
> >Have you been told you can't do a job because of your sex?
> Yes, a company I worked wanted a female lead engineer, so promoted someone with fewer qualifications and less experience. A similar thing happened to me when I was a climbing instructor. A woman was hired at a higher rate of pay, despite have less experience and no qualifications.
Are you quite sure that these examples of prejudice can't be better explained by your coming across as a bit of a dick?
> All bigotry and discrimination should be called out and not allowed to fester. It’s not a question on degrees. You can’t replace one form with another. If you are not aware and are interested then research things like Grievance Studies and Critical Race Theory. I would recommend the following people, Eric Weinstein, Brett Weinstein (brother) and his wife, Heather Heying, Jonathan Haidt, Christina Hoff-Sommers (all of these are left leaning), Douglas Murray, and yes, Jordan Peterson.
That’s like recommending genital warts.
> 150 years ago, life was sh1t for nearly everyone, including the majority of white men.
Probably the white men weren’t quite as badly off as the rest though.
How many of those people do you actually know and would you indicate in what manner your are intellectually superior?
You’re obviously far more of an expert on dickishness, you tell me.
I can't think of anything more pathetic than a man making a sexist comment so that he can wind up the people who call him out on it, and then bleating that he's an oppressed person making a stand for free speech.
I can.
> Yep imo he is the best ever.
I’m not even remotely left wing and I agree. We’d better be careful. Harmony and UKC doesn’t seem to be compatible.
> There’s some properly uptight, miserable and puckered up lefties in this place sucking the joy out of life. Mary Whitehouses on steroids. I guess it’s because all their joy has seeped away, so they can only feed off that of others. Bloody vampires!
Could just be people think you're being a dick. I'm always rubbish at this game, who did you post as before you were last banned?
Jk
I think you'll find I don't. :-P
> Yep imo he is the best ever.
Wow people are strange
I'm never sure whether he is a comedian or the worlds crappest newsreader.
> Men; higher rate of suicide, higher rate of work place death, lower life expectancy, more likely to die in war, more likely to be murdered, receive longer sentences for identical crimes than women, discriminated against in divorce court, no reproduction rights whatsoever (either way)... that’ll do for now.
There's more complicated or involving reasons for a fair few of those than just discrimination against men, though.
> a company I worked wanted a female lead engineer, so promoted someone with fewer qualifications and less experience. A similar thing happened to me when I was a climbing instructor. A woman was hired at a higher rate of pay, despite have less experience and no qualifications.
I'd think most folk would agree that's pretty shitty, but there's also the danger of mixing the specific with the general - all that typically happens to women a lot more. Obviously that's of small comfort to you particularly, and it's not really fair that you're required to suffer for gender equality, but perhaps it at least means that in the long run that sort of thing happens less.
And maybe some small solace can be found in the thought that being able to pee standing up makes up for a lot
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