Alpine & Expedition Mountaineering difference?

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Shannon_G123 20 Nov 2019

Hi, 

I was wondering if anyone could give any helpful advice on what is the clear difference (if there is one) between Alpine and Expedition mountaineering, I keep finding different meanings to the terms on the internet and wondered if anyone could clarify? (Is it the difference in altitude, the amount of time you spending camping or how long it actually takes to climb etc) 

Thanks! 

 Dave the Rave 20 Nov 2019
In reply to Shannon_G123:

Probably all of those?

 McHeath 20 Nov 2019
In reply to Shannon_G123:

I've always understood expeditions to be undertakings where simply getting to the start of the climbing involves considerable distances, time and logistics. Also that when you've set up base camp, you have to be pretty much self-sufficient for a fairly long period of time (ok, Everest and the popular 8000ers excepted).

Altitude doesn't have to come into it. Trips  to destinations like the Ruth Gorge in Alaska certainly qualify as expeditions, and the peaks are "only" just over 3000m.

 Damo 21 Nov 2019
In reply to Shannon_G123:

You're probably seeing alpine climbing, alpine style, expedition, expedition-style, and mountaineering. They're all mountain climbing, but there are distinctions.

Alpine climbing - ascending high mountains by long routes, often glaciated and often involving snow and ice climbing, but in some cases can be all rock climbing. Usually done on mid-height mountain ranges (ie. the Alps), summits 3000-5000m, where most routes can be done in a day (unless they're extremely difficult). The guide to this kind of thing is usually a surly little Swiss man, or a Kiwi who is usually named Russell, or Murray.

Expedition - usually a group going to achieve a particular objective, usually exploratory or adventurous in this context, not a guided tour to a low or popular objective (ie. climbing to the summit of Kilimanjaro is not really an expedition, climbing Mont Blanc is not an expedition, but a four-week trek across multiple 5000m+ passes through seldom visited Himalayan ranges, even without summits, could reliably be considered an expedition. Climbing K2 in any way will always be an expedition). The guide to this kind of thing is to get enough experience on your own of the activity so you can tell how much of the brochure is bullshit. Expedition is a sexier and more intrepid name for 'trip', so most of it is bullshit.

Expedition Style - refers to the way an expedition group climbs a mountain, usually shutting back and forth along fixed ropes to supply multiple camps, using porters above base camp etc.  Considered to be old-fashioned (1930-1970) in traditional climbing terms, but since the 1990s has been the style in which nearly all commercial guided Himalayan expeditions are done because it's the only way to get incompetent rich people to 8000m summits. And sometimes down again. The guide to this kind of thing is 'The Ascent of Rum Doodle' by  WE Bowman.

Alpine Style - as opposed to Expedition Style, this refers to just starting at the bottom and climbing to the top, no back and forth shuttling, no fixed ropes, no use of porters above base camp. You can stop and camp/bivi, maybe for a day or three, but you keep going up. A superior variation on this is Single Push climbing, where you go bottom to top but don't bivi or camp, just climb continuously with short breaks, for maybe 10-60hrs. Though there are pedantic factors to alpine-style (not being on the route at all before climbing it etc) there is no such thing as 'alpine style from Camp 2' having climbed the lower mountain in Expedition Style, for example. The guide to this kind of thing is The Shining Mountain by Joe Tasker and Peter Boardman, if you have a beard, or something that mentions Votyek Kurtyka and a cast of very small but fit Frenchmen.

So, you can go on an expedition and climb the mountain Expedition Style.

And you can go on an expedition and climb the mountain Alpine Style.

 alexm198 21 Nov 2019
In reply to Damo:

And if you were completely mental, you could go alpine climbing and climb the mountain in expedition style...

 jcw 21 Nov 2019
In reply to Shannon_G123:

UKC has solved the difference. Everything from Stanage to Everest is a crag

 JLS 21 Nov 2019
In reply to alexm198:

Does caching water on the Skye Ridge technically make it an expedition?

 McHeath 21 Nov 2019
In reply to JLS:

> Does caching water on the Skye Ridge technically make it an expedition?

Only if you hire the locals peasants as porters to prepare the ridge for you. Gifts of sandals cut out of old tyres improve the working climate immensely, and help to build a mutually respectful relationship. 

 alexm198 21 Nov 2019
In reply to JLS:

No, that would be a redpoint

 JLS 21 Nov 2019
In reply to alexm198:

> No, that would be a redpoint

More like O/S with side runner, I'd say.

cb294 21 Nov 2019
In reply to alexm198:

I use expedition style a lot at the indoor climbing wall: Climb to the crux at the fourth quickdraw, lower down, untie and give the sharp end to your partner, who will top rope to your high point, pull halfway through the crux and clip one more quickdraw, lower off. Rinse and repeat until you make it to the top, or give up and retire to the bar....

CB

Removed User 21 Nov 2019
In reply to Damo:

What about Capsule Style?!

 tjekel 21 Nov 2019
In reply to Shannon_G123:

Alpine... You return to a cosy hut and an afterclimb beer or two. 

Expedition... No return to hut and beer due to either the climbers abilities or conditions (i. e. no hut, no beer). 


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