UKH

I am in the market for a light weight one man 4 season tent with the intent of using it for a winter hike of 4/5 days with snow on the ground, possible winds, etc.. after that it will be used occasionally in spring/summer.

There are a lot of very expensive and highly technical options but for the use I will make of it, it seems absurd to invest so much.

Having a look at more reasonably priced choices, I have come across the new Vango Cairngorm 100, which seems to be the right size and weight and has the same and in some case even better specs that other more expensive 4 season tents but unfortunately, I couldn’t find a 4 season (or other) rating anywhere in the web, including the Vango own site.

I have never owned a Vango so I would like some feedback from users regarding the quality of their products and, if there is any winter camper there, will this be an adequate choice?

Also, Any alternatives out there with similar size/weight/price?

Thanks! 

No experience of that model but Vango tents are typically bomber but heavy. There are winds in the Cairngorms that no tent will withstand but keep and eye on the forecast and plan your camps accordingly and you should be fine. If it's in the winter then there's a good chance you can dig in too.

Also, there are lots of very convenient bothies in the Cairngorms, so you always have those as a backup or factor them into your trip (they generally have space outside to camp if they're full in my experience). 

If the forecast is 80mph then don't camp up on the plateau!  

Thanks! Definetly marking up on the map location of bothies and refuges. I was also planning to avoid nights on the plateau, just in case. I have read in an old forum here that by night the temperatures drop considerately lower in the glen than on the plateau (10 degrees difference?) due to cold air falling, is that a fact? 

It's not a 4 season tent by any stretch of the imagination but if you're careful about when you go and where you camp it will probably be fine.

Only in still, high pressure conditions.

Yeah it's called thermal/temperature inversion. It can happen (the lowest temperatures recorded in Britain were in valleys (sub -25), whereas the coldest temp ever recorded by the weather station on the summit of Cairngorm is in the region of -15). 

There is a happy medium though! There are lots of sheltered places in between.

OK Thanks,

I was thinking in investing more on a good mat and sleeping bag than in the tent but I might reconsider and fork out for a proper 4 season tent as well. In that case what are the key features to look for, considering that I need to keep weight down?

Definitely worth thinking about it. I was planning to camp more on lower ground, in the hope to have more chances at finding unfrozen water and carry less fuel. in the other end, sleeping at -20 will require a very good sleeping system. Usual pros and cons....

Any opinion driven by experience will be much appreciated, thanks!

What's your planned route? 

Waiting for the SO maps to arrive to plan properly but roughly I would like to go across most of the Nat. Park territory on the widest part starting from the west in Ruthven and finishing in Dinnet, taking on Sgor Gaoith,  Braeriach, Ben Macdui than Beinn’a Bhuird and Ben Avon. 

For occasional, careful winter use in Scotland you don't really need a true 4 season tent. 

Choosing a tent is a minefield as there are so many options and personal preferences. You definitely want a solid rather than mesh inner for winter use though.

This is a good place to look at lightweight options: 

 https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/equipment-c3/tents-shelters-c25/one...

I do an annual winter trip in the Cairngorms. I use a Vango Apex 200.  Not a winter tent either, but if the weather is set rubbish, we stay low, camping in the groughs or woodlands.    I've had two Vangos and both are good quality, and built to last.  This Apex was bought second hand as is still going strong.

Thanks for the link!

Hi

I have just purchsed the Vango F10 Helium 200 from Uttings at £200

Weighs 1.25kg and seems pretty bomb proof although not much difference in shape and size from the Cairngorm.

I would look at single skin for a 4 season but not cheap

Would that be any good for Scottish conditions? Surely single skin tents are generally meant for cold, dry, high altitude conditions not damp Scottish weather.

That would be a big mistake in Scotland and you would end up very wet indeed. 

Wild Country have some good tents in the same price range. My mate has a Zephyros which handled >60mph winds without too much trouble. 

I had already discarded single skin (and down filled sleeping bags). Just had another look online, went through the ultralight site again too but I am still unconvinced by the specs of most 4 season tents, especially the fly sheet, as they all seem to have hidrostatic head values lower than the Vango cairngorm 100, despitebeing 4 seasons and 4 or 5 times the price tag.

I have seen the F10 series of tech tents, also from Vango and the F10 Arete could be a candidate as it has good specs and is 4 season rated (just over 300 £). It is a 2 persons but it weight only about 1.6 (same weight, little more space...) plus is a free standing tent. My only uncertainty now is if it will be easy enough to pitch by myself, especially in the wind.

will looking, still open to suggestions..

thanks to all for all the posts so far, it is a great help to have a broad range of opinions to consider

Hydrostatic head is a bit of a red herring really, design and construction are much more important. 

Here's a left field suggestion for you: http://www.trekkertent.com/home/home/35-saor.html

And don't discount down bags. They still have significantly better warmth to weight ratios and packed sizes than synthetic. Modern hydrophobic down and outer fabrics can cope with moisture much better than older stuff.

I am worried that in the course of the 4 or 5 nights (may be even 6 or 7) i will spent in the tent, and not knowing how the tent I will end up buying copes with condensation, the down will become increasingly dump. I was trying to mitigate the problem but may be the modern one are designed to cope in far worse conditions? No experience one way or the other with regards to very cold tems camping..

Ignor the hydrostatic head. Even 1500mm h/h which  is about the lowest you will find means the fabric can hold back the pressure of 1.5 metres of water! That's really quite a lot when you think about it, certainly more than you are going to experience unless you camp under a waterfall. Most fabrics are around 3000mm which is plenty. 

Likewise with down sleeping bags, there seems to be this myth that if a drop of water gets of them they will instantly become a clump of sodden feathers which is simply not the case. I've used down sleeping bags (not hydrophobic) in winter and summer conditions all over Scotland and the rest of the UK with no problems whatsoever. If down was that susceptible to moisture ducks and geese wouldn't have evolved it 😉

Thanks, on the list! Good option, I like the low weight and that the flysheet goes all the way to the ground.

With regards to the HH, I agree that it might be debatable but, assuming that the taped seams are ok, surely there should be a difference between 3000 or 6000 mm. I will research and see if anyone have tested that.

Just had a look at the helium UL 1, as you said similar to the the cairngorm 100 although it is a lot lighter  and a 4 season! Will go on the list too!

Great point about the ducks! feathers are naturally hydrophobic!

Much appreciated is your direct experience feedback, exactly what i needed to know as how equipment works in real conditions is what really counts, thanks for that! I Will take all of this in, than decide what to go for.

I've used my 3000mm HH tent in multiple consecutive days of rain in Scotland, was on Skye earlier this year and it rained for 3 days straight, never had anything come through the flysheet.

HH is higher on jackets due to the added pressure caused by wearing rucksacks or climbing harnesses, not so much of an issue on a flysheet.

When it's on the duck yes but it's washed to remove the oils before being made into sleeping bags so much of that property is lost. Modern hydrophobic down is treated with a DWR to restore some degree of water repellence. 

I did say it slightly tongue in cheek but there is a video comparing downs jackets on YouTube. Its trying to promote hydrophobic down and they stand 2 people in torrential rain, one in a normal down jacket and one in a hydrophobic one. The hydrophobic jacket stands up better but the thing that struck me was just how well the none hydrophobic down performed. It was in the torrential rain for ages before the down started to clump up. 

The lower the HH, the lighter the fabric will be generally, so it's a tradeoff. Lighter tent will have a lower HH but will still be adequate. Light=expensive, so don't read too much into the HH vs price. I use 30D silnylon, 3000HH and never had a problem. 

As long as it's setup well and pegged properly, it will be solid enough. 

Thanks everyone for all the info/advise, much appreciated!

The Saor is Sil Nylon so no taped seams - but you will have to seam seal them yourself. Unless Trekkertent will do you a bespoke Sil Poly version.