Decided that I need to get a down jacket, budget is most likely <£200. Any brands that you really rate, or have found that they're of a low quality?
Cheers!
I'm happy with my Alpkit Phantac... cheaper than Rab/ Mountain Equipment/ Montane equivalents but nearly matching for quality of construction and you'll get more down than the same price from those brands.
I would avoid a jacket that uses loads of low fill power down or even a miniscule amount of higher quality down but then I wanted something that was packable and still had the snug factor of a "big" down jacket.
Had my Rab for over 20 years now, even wash it in the washing machine & dry it in the dryer.
Would buy another but they have stopped making them in red and I don't like drab colours
I have two Rab ones - different weights - one is 8 years old, the other 4 years old. I've been really pleased with them both. Definitely recommended.
I also have a Patagonia vest but that's fairly new. So far, so good.
Decathalon...
Plus do you really want down!!!
Synthetic jackets are really good these days.
Euge
https://www.alpkit.com/featured/mens-insulation
and if you`re a small or xl a great price on these
https://www.alpkit.com/products/phantac-mens-18
Montane Outlet Store have an eBay account as far as I can recall it’s called mountain kit. Loads of great down jackets for cheaper prices. Alpkits current range of down jackets are a little overpriced for their stats but alpkit do have the best customer service and some really good synthetic jackets.
I have Montane and Alpkit down jackets. I got the Montane in a sale, and it has a generally better finish than the Alpkit one, but it cost more even with the discount.
If you're looking for something that's good value, I don't think you can beat Alpkit really.
Good point. I’ve got a rab primaloft jacket that’s absolutely excellent as a on route belay jacket. It’s packs down nice and small so you can clip it on your harness.
also, being primaloft it washes very easily and dries in half an hour.
For £200 or less you're wearing goose down that's been live plucked while the birds are force fed for foie gra, simultaneously injected with steroids so they can be killed as slowly as possible to preserve their water filled muscles and bloated livers for meat and pate to maximize profitability and minimise thoughts to their horrible suffering.
I look forward to your contribution to my weekly Lidl shop.
> For £200 or less you're wearing goose down that's been live plucked while the birds are force fed for foie gra, simultaneously injected with steroids so they can be killed as slowly as possible to preserve their water filled muscles and bloated livers for meat and pate to maximize profitability and minimise thoughts to their horrible suffering.
The Alpkit stuff mentioned is below £200 and doesn't fall into your description.
Rab, the same.
Can't be bothered to look at any of the others, but I'm fairly sure that they have a similar policy.
Care to substantiate your claim?
> For £200 or less you're wearing goose down that's been live plucked while the birds are force fed for foie gra, simultaneously injected with steroids so they can be killed as slowly as possible to preserve their water filled muscles and bloated livers for meat and pate to maximize profitability and minimise thoughts to their horrible suffering.
> I look forward to your contribution to my weekly Lidl shop.
That's rubbish.
https://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/p/mountain-equipment-arete-hooded-jacket-A4...
Mountain Equipment make sure all of their down is humanely/ethically sourced, and here's one of their jackets for sale for £170.
Or, if you can stretch your budget another £20, you can even get the Vega :
https://www.alloutdoor.co.uk/clearance-deals/mountain-equipment-mens-vega-j...
Alpkit however, make no such claims that I can see.
To the OP: I’ve got an 8 year old Rab, and a 5 year old Patagonia (differing constructions) that are both still going strong. If you’ve got £200 to spend I’d suggest buying a more expensive bit of kit - 99% of the time they’re more durable/that little bit lore gucci.
Depends what you’re going to do in the jacket. I’ve an ME Lightline which comes in under 200 quid, and is go to for bouldering in and outdoors in the winter, taking it on and off. However if you’re doing stuff while you wear the jacket, then my Arc’teryx Cerium is hard to beat, very packable and turns up in sales sub 200.
Here’s the thing though. Mrs Paul in Sheffield is a strict vegan, so there’s not even honey in the house. As a veggie for the bulk of my life, I’ve gone over to vegan, so my next jacket will be a synthetic. My last Arc’teryx Atom was bomb proof and ticked all the boxes.
We have always used down from non-force fed and non-live plucked farms. All of our down is Responsible Down certified and hydrophobic which keeps you warmer if the jacket gets wet.
> Care to substantiate your claim?
https://www.lidl.fr/fr/nos-offres.htm?articleId=25616
Why have you posted a Link to a Lidl Foie Gras advert?
What you should be providing is evidence that Alpkit and Rab, etc. are actively using the methods that you imply that they are using.
If you can't do that, please desist with your attacks on them.
> I work for Lidl
So what?
Provide evidence of said Company's not complying to the stipulations that you state or shut up...
Easy as that.
> Provide evidence of said Company's not complying to the stipulations that you state or shut up...
*Companies
> Easy as that.
> *Companies
Is that your response?
Can't find evidence to back your claim, so resort to picking out errors in grammar/spelling?
Is that really it?
I never thought about it, but honey isn't vegan?! Is taking the honey cruel to the bees or something?
I have the predecessor of this jacket, the Omega, and it's been fantastic for a good bunch of years. Good shout!
To the op: If I were buying another, I'd certainly give Alpkit a look. I tried one of their microrib down jackets recently along with a Rab alpine, very little to differentiate between them tbh. Only a recent house move kept me from buying one (ideal number of down jackets being n+1 and all that)
With all this talk of ethically sourced down a thought just entered my head. What do they do with all the turkey feathers after Christmas? Are we going going to see a rash of really cheap down jackets in the new year sales?
> You didnt look very hard as its right at the start of Alpkits Down jacket section...
> We have always used down from non-force fed and non-live plucked farms. All of our down is Responsible Down certified and hydrophobic which keeps you warmer if the jacket gets wet.
Your right, I didn’t - I thought it would be shoved in my face (on a phone if that makes any difference). Good to know however
Turkey feathers are NOT down, at all. Maybe for feather beds though?
You are a very angry individual.
People are becoming more and more aware that labels such as "free range" are essentially lies. Just because your egg box has a picture of a chicken in a field, does not mean those chickens have anything resembling a healthy existence. A Google search on beak trimming would be a good place to start if you are unsure on this.
Increased demand and a need for profit on animal products does not yield ideal conditions for animal welfare.
The down market is set to almost double in the next few years. I would be extremely sceptical of any kind of ethical swing tag on your down jacket in much the same way anyone should be with free range, sustainably fished, or the red tractor logo. I don't want to go off topic into the meat industry as a whole, but down is a product from the same industry so it helps explain my point - just because a company markets themselves as ethical does not mean they are.
Some companies may genuinely have good intentions, but this in no way differs to consumers with good intentions and dillusional belief in the ethics of the meat industry.
2 years ago down that met the responsible down standard made it's way into Patagonia jackets and was found to be live plucked.
I have little belief in what brands claim, it's just marketing. In my view you shouldn't be wearing down unless you fully accept that the birds used to make your clothing have died after a horrific existence.
> You are a very angry individual.
Angry?
Probably not as 'angry' as Alpkit and Rab would be if they knew what was being said about them on UKC...
> People are becoming more and more aware that labels such as "free range" are essentially lies. Just because your egg box has a picture of a chicken in a field, does not mean those chickens have anything resembling a healthy existence. A Google search on beak trimming would be a good place to start if you are unsure on this.
> Increased demand and a need for profit on animal products does not yield ideal conditions for animal welfare.
> The down market is set to almost double in the next few years. I would be extremely sceptical of any kind of ethical swing tag on your down jacket in much the same way anyone should be with free range, sustainably fished, or the red tractor logo. I don't want to go off topic into the meat industry as a whole, but down is a product from the same industry so it helps explain my point - just because a company markets themselves as ethical does not mean they are.
> Some companies may genuinely have good intentions, but this in no way differs to consumers with good intentions and dillusional belief in the ethics of the meat industry.
> 2 years ago down that met the responsible down standard made it's way into Patagonia jackets and was found to be live plucked.
> I have little belief in what brands claim, it's just marketing. In my view you shouldn't be wearing down unless you fully accept that the birds used to make your clothing have died after a horrific existence.
You still haven't provided any actual evidence that Companies are *still* using the techniques that you are accusing them of.
Yes, historically, there was a lot of unpleasantness surrounding how down was resourced. However, it would appear that the well known 'prestige' brands have got their own house in order by self introduced schemes, etc. What you also seem to be accusing these Companies of, is intentionally lying about how they resource their down - if you do have evidence of that, then please share that evidence with us and I for one wouldn't buy a down jacket from that Company.
> Angry?
> Probably not as 'angry' as Alpkit and Rab would be if they knew what was being said about them on UKC...
I'm sure they can post if they would like, but they must be flattered by your loyalty; it's a compliment to their marketing department.
> You still haven't provided any actual evidence that Companies are *still* using the techniques that you are accusing them of.
There is a history of mistreatment of geese, and you're telling me that you believe the industry is producing more down ethically today than it was unethically very recently?
I'm sorry I'm sceptical, try not to take it personally.
I don't think it is up to them to post, I think it is up to you not to post inflammatory and accusatory statements about companies on public forums, without direct evidence to back your statements up.
Normally I'd ignore a virtue signalling vegan twerp but having had a wonder round Go Outdoors and Decathalon and seen the number of down jackets heading out the door, I can't believe that ethical down is anything but a smoke screen for the same old processes.
The sheer volume is staggering and every granny heading to Waitrose has one. I'd say the market has more than doubled in ten years.
> I never thought about it, but honey isn't vegan?! Is taking the honey cruel to the bees or something?
It does mean the bees can't eat it. A beekeeper who wants to have hives survive the winter would feed them a sugar solution if their stores run low, so it's not that the bees are directly harmed as a result, but they did put a lot of effort in and their drive to make it is being taken advantage of. A similar argument to that condemning the use of wool, I suppose.
I'm not a vegan. I don't think you have to be vegan to have concerns about where things come from.
I am a twerp though. It's what makes me so many friends here.
> Normally I'd ignore a virtue signalling vegan twerp but having had a wonder round Go Outdoors and Decathalon and seen the number of down jackets heading out the door, I can't believe that ethical down is anything but a smoke screen for the same old processes.
> The sheer volume is staggering and every granny heading to Waitrose has one. I'd say the market has more than doubled in ten years.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the non big name jackets are using down sourced from whatever source they can get it.
That doesn't mean that Rab, Alpkit and Patagonia, etc. are doing likewise though...
> I am a twerp though. It's what makes me so many friends here.
A twerp amongst twerps.
All in jest and agree absolutely. There are so many alternatives as well. My mum bought me a Rab gillet which I have to wear occasionally. She thought it was down, it's actually 3m insulation and you can hardly tell its not down. Just doesn't pack quite as small. I'm thinking it's warmer by weight than Primaloft and almost as warm as down. Now if ME do the Fitzroy in that insulation it's job done.
But down, no for the UK.
My ME Lightline jacket has been brilliant - packs down quite small and is very warm. Originally bought when I went to Canada in the winter, last used in anger in Nepal last year. No hydrophobic down, but has a waterproof DriLite outer fabric.
I've also got a North Face Massif down vest, which is brilliant.
As of tomorrow, I've officially got a Rab Microlight Alpine jacket.
My wife has a collection of TNF down jackets, but really loves her Rab Altus jacket.
> Here’s the thing though. Mrs Paul in Sheffield is a strict vegan, so there’s not even honey in the house. As a veggie for the bulk of my life, I’ve gone over to vegan, so my next jacket will be a synthetic. My last Arc’teryx Atom was bomb proof and ticked all the boxes.
I find it interesting how people can take different perspectives on things like this. I read something in Summit magazine about down, with Rab Carrington talking about the down they use/d being 'a by product', and talking about how environmentally friendly it is. A fair while later the thing about it being a by product popped into my head and I emailed the company, and he responded that (at the time of responding) the down they used was a by product of the slaughter industry, and commented on it being much greener than synthetic insulation, and having a lifespan of approx 30 years if well looked after.
Ever since, I've found myself wondering about the overall 'kindest' insulation to use in an overall sense, along the lines that if the down is a by product anyway, it would seem to make sense for it to be given a useful purpose, compared to oil being used to make an insulation which can seem to degrade with use faster than down does, and which won't naturally rot or degrade and would need to be recycled or burnt as fuel to stop it from becoming landfill.
If I wanted to eat some duck or goose, I'd want it to be killed in 'small scale farm' way where it's perhaps more likely to be given the time for it to be killed in as stress free way as possible compared to in a mechanical/industrialised setting, but if the down is going to be existing as a by product until people stop eating ducks and geese, it might seem to make sense to use it to keep warm with to be 'animal kind' in a different way, by reducing one's environmental footprint a little bit - to animals like polar bears struggling with climate change and what have you ( while geese and ducks presumably have a footprint similar to that of chickens - which is the meat animal with the smallest footprint [in ascending order it goes chickens, pigs, sheep, cows], the carbon footprint of eating meat isn't unacknowledged).
The sentient nature of animals has been having me pondering going vegetarian as a new year resolution, by the way, I've been coming across some things friends have shared on facebook which has opened my eyes to their emotional and 'inner' lives, but it strikes me it will be a long time (if ever) until nobody eats ducks or geese, keeping the question of whether to use down to keep warm with in my mind.
Alpkit Phantac all the way. My Neutrino didnt last that long, plus it’s hydrophobic down and responsibly sourced.
https://www.alpkit.com/alpkiteers/ramon-marin
Especially when my Neutrino has lasted me 15 years
I’ve had an ME Lightline for close to 10yrs now that’s still going strong. As long as I give it a wash & proper dry every couple of years it’s fine.
The thing is, you haven't really made the grade until you have some duct tape on your down jacket. That's when everyone knows you are a hardcore climber rather than someone who just wears it around Safeways.
Think it depends if the down was ripped from the gooses ass before or after it was slaughtered. Down used to be well expensive, now not so much.
Only if it was from two different incidents
3317 views about which down jacket to buy....Jeez...maybe buy the blue one
> 3317 views about which down jacket to buy....Jeez...maybe buy the blue one
Nondescript matt black is the way to go and with no logo's on the rear shoulder!
Thanks all for your feedback, went to GoOutdoors and picked up a Montane anti-freeze as they had plenty I could try on and compare, and the price was good.
*awaits inevitable flaming from UKC*
Nice jacket, good price. No flame
Interestingly, my Christmas present was a new Rab Neutrino and I'm happy as a pig in shit. If it lasts me as long as my 1st one it might even see me out. Well, perhaps one more after that
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